Best MoW 'caster options?

[HeadHunter]

Hey gang,

I'm pondering making an army that's heavy on Man-O-War units for my next project after I finish my 15-point WGDS army. I know I want to take the Kovnik and a unit of Battle Mechaniks with the UA, but I'm not sure which 'caster would best support a MoW-heavy force. I've been looking them over, but I don't see any with Elite Cadre effects for MoWs, though some have theme force bonuses.

I'm fairly new to the game, so I may have overlooked some of the more esoteric synergies - or even some of the obvious ones. I'm interested in hearing opinions on what 'casters work best with this sort of force, and why. Thank you for your input and advice!

[quindraco]

Epic Irusk, boss. Now your MoW can live long enough to be repaired, since they're tough. And your Shocktroopers can go places, thanks to Tactical Supremacy.

[Invaderzahn]

You may want to take a look at Irusk 2. with Martial Discipline he lets your boys move through each other so all those Medium bases aren't getting in your way. Tactical Supremacy will help speed them up and tough along with the Mechanic UA sounds like a match made in heaven

[volt_ron]

I'd say eIrusk or eVald.

Yeah I said eVlad.

[ReaverQueen]

eVlad turn 1 feat + run = 24" up board with MOW STs.

Oh and the Dakhun will be something silly like 30" up board. All of them will be like ARM 20+

[ReaverQueen]

dblpostwhup

[HeadHunter]

Cool! I'll look into those two, but I welcome more input and opinions!
What I wouldn't give for a MoW 'caster with Elite Cadre. Man, I'd sell all my Space Wolves and build a vast MoW army with that! :)

[MagnustheJust]

Cool! I'll look into those two, but I welcome more input and opinions!
What I wouldn't give for a MoW 'caster with Elite Cadre. Man, I'd sell all my Space Wolves and build a vast MoW army with that! :)

Hit up Batertown... Space Puppies are still very popular, and there are always people willing to trade for them.

[HeadHunter]

Well, when/if we ever get that dream 'caster, I probably will...
or if 6th Edition forces me to totally rebuild my army yet again. :mad:

[HeadHunter]

OK, so how does this look for a 50-point army?

eIrusk
Behemoth
Destroyer
6 Battle Mechaniks with Officer
5 Man-o-War Bombardiers
5 Man-o-War Shocktroopers
Man-o-War Kovnik
Man-o-War Drakuhn with dismount

[volt_ron]

I'd drop the Destroyer for a full unit of Demo Corps (9 points). Because:
1. Just to have all three flavors of MoW.
2. you are very AOE heavy to begin with. You won't miss 1 AOE.
3. Demo Corp are good for busting up pretty much anything. You either get 10 attacks to wade through infantry or 5 weaponmasters for really hard targets (or any combination of the two).


This is an idea I've been floating around in my head for a few weeks. i haven't tried it out yet (as I only own 5 MoW STs & eVlad), but my list was something like this:

Vladimir Tzepesci, the Dark Champion (*5pts)
* Drago (8pts)
Battle Mechaniks (Leader and 5 Grunts) (3pts)
* Battle Mechanik Officer (2pts)
Man-o-war Bombardiers (Leader and 4 Grunts) (11pts) <<Hand of fate seems like it would be great on these guys (as would fire for effect from eIrusk)
Man-o-war Demolition Corps (Leader and 4 Grunts) (9pts)
Man-o-war Demolition Corps (Leader and 4 Grunts) (9pts)
Man-o-war Shocktroopers (Leader and 4 Grunts) (9pts)
Man-o-war Drakhun (without dismount) (4pts)

I'll take a turn of SPD 7, POW 17ish, ARM 19+ dudes!

[HeadHunter]

The Vlad army looks pretty cool - I may be a heretic for saying I'm not big on Vlad as a 'caster - but that's just my own personal preference.
I do, however, like the Demo Corps suggestion - I'd had the Destroyer in there partly for eIrusk's bond, partly because the Kovnik can marshall one of the 'jacks, and partly because I really love the idea of Bombards! But it may be gilding the lily, and I can see how the hard-hitting Demo Corps would benefit the army. Plus, another 5 MoWs on the table makes it look more impressive!

Well, when I have about $250 to spare (and when I'm done painting what I've got), I'll have to place an order. But there's time to refine it before I get to that point, I'm sure.

[quindraco]

OK, so how does this look for a 50-point army?

eIrusk
Behemoth
Destroyer
6 Battle Mechaniks with Officer
5 Man-o-War Bombardiers
5 Man-o-War Shocktroopers
Man-o-War Kovnik
Man-o-War Drakuhn with dismount

I agree with Volt. Drop the Destroyer for Demo Corp - no sense half-assing this! Don't worry about losing the bond entirely, eIrusk is basically waiting on a character jack with an affinity for him. The DC will be your premier Battle Lust target, provided you manage to reach the party mostly intact.

[Steamwitch]

all of the above. Thanks to PG-Chaingun i have been working on a MoW list but had to stop due to a move. I personaly live to see eIrusk waveing the flag with MoW and big b but if the bond is something you want to use i say spriggan and you have a spare 3 pts. Big b looks great in the list but MoW are expensive too and if you wanna spam them i would take only one jack thats only 10 or less i own 2 max shock and demo and its nice to have them out there sheild wall is big with mow spam.

[Crazy Uncle Doug]

I agree with Volt. Drop the Destroyer for Demo Corp - no sense half-assing this! Don't worry about losing the bond entirely, eIrusk is basically waiting on a character jack with an affinity for him. The DC will be your premier Battle Lust target, provided you manage to reach the party mostly intact.

I third that statement. I've used Demo Corps with eIrusk often, and they're a natural match. Behemoth will give you two Bombards. Pop FFE on the Behemoth fairly early on and he'll pay you back fairly quickly. Even though only one Bombard gets boosted, it's all the damage from your first rolls. Your opponent will be sad. I like my opponents sad.

[quindraco]

I third that statement. I've used Demo Corps with eIrusk often, and they're a natural match. Behemoth will give you two Bombards. Pop FFE on the Behemoth fairly early on and he'll pay you back fairly quickly. Even though only one Bombard gets boosted, it's all the damage from your first rolls. Your opponent will be sad. I like my opponents sad.

I am kind of sad Black Ivan's affinity wasn't for Irusk, that would have been glorious.

[ReaverQueen]

I like how a character Destroyer came out of left field to some people. ( I totally called it though. )


I'm thinking character Kodiak next. That would be very cool. Hopefully a "generic" character that is good with everyone and doesn't have any particular "affinity".

[Steamwitch]

i want a character marauder for butcher! But i think a char. Spriggan is unlikely for irusk but im hopeful

[Mercykiller]

I've run multiple forms of the all-MOW army and I can confirm that eIrusk is the best caster for them, hands down. pButcher's theme force is good, but the lack of meks and how often they'll trip over each other knocks him down below eIrusk (although to be fair Butcher can close the deal even if his army is dead, a concept eIrusk struggles with). I've also tried eVlad (going on the theory that with Transference his MOW melee can act like warjacks) and it works well enough, although the times with him I've found myself relying on Vlad himself to finish up.

I'm still trying to summon the will to finish my gun carriage and run the eIrusk theme list from the NQ with them. While the MOW get no specific benefit from it the ability to gain +2" deployment is nice, as is the difficult terrain from the GC helping to even the movement game with non-pathfinder enemies.

From my experience though the summation of best to not quite best (worst not listed hehe):

(1)eIrusk: Passive benefits for MOW are awesome, and Shockies and DC can actually do Roman Legion-esque tactics of STs in front and DC swinging through them safely. Tough goes well with Battle Mech UA. FFE on something with a pie plate helps prune away the lower-ARM clogger troops that they can get tarpitted with.

(2)pButcher's theme: no gooey center for the enemy to shoot for, the extra speed at the beginning of the game is awesome. Iron flesh can be kept on Butcher himself without feeling it has a better target or tossed around, feat helps damage immensely.

(3)eVlad: Can turn Demo Corp into rockstars with feat and spells, Drakhun makes sweet sweet love to the feat (and taking dismount doubles down on the fun for the enemy), and by feating the 'lead' Shocktrooper doing the attack you can get a CMA of MAT15, P+S22 boostable attack out of the 'not killy' guys.

Of course pVlad can signs them, Strak can help them get the charge, etc., but the three casters above IMHO do the most for the MOW or (in the Butcher's case) get the most out of them.

[Darguth]

OK, so how does this look for a 50-point army?

eIrusk
Behemoth
Destroyer
6 Battle Mechaniks with Officer
5 Man-o-War Bombardiers
5 Man-o-War Shocktroopers
Man-o-War Kovnik
Man-o-War Drakuhn with dismount

I was recently toying with a very similar list. Minus the Destroyer, the Drakhun, and lowering the Meks to a minimum unit. Then spending those points on a full Demo Corps unit and a Berserker Marshalled to the Kovnik.

I'd echo others that eIrusk seems have the most to hand out to support a MOW-heavy list, for the various reasons listed.

One minor inconvenience, though, is that with the Demo Corps as your follow-up melee unit behind the screening Shocktroopers, rather than say the Great Bears, the 3" Tactical Supremacy movement is insufficient to "leap frog" a 40mm base.

Normally with the Great Bears I'll run them so they are directly B2B with the front edge of my Shocktroopers and then leap frog them using Tactical supremacy at the end of the turn. You can't do that with the Demo Corps. To directly leap frog them you'd need to essentially move 80mm which equates to approximately 3.15". Just a little too much for Tactical Supremacy.

You can slightly off-set the Demo Corps so they fit into the "grooves" of the round bases on your screening unit and then leapfrog, but that means you won't have a direct screen after the movement, with at least one DC model visible to one side of the screen. It's a minor thing, but annoying.

[Khador247]

eVlad turn 1 feat + run = 24" up board with MOW STs.

Oh and the Dakhun will be something silly like 30" up board. All of them will be like ARM 20+

MOW ST is base SPD is 4 and with the feat it becomes 7. So they could run 12 inches.
MOW Drakhun has base SPD 7 and with the feat it becomes 10. So he could run 20 inches.

[Darguth]

MOW ST is base SPD is 4 and with the feat it becomes 7. So they could run 12 inches.
MOW Drakhun has base SPD 7 and with the feat it becomes 10. So he could run 20 inches.

SPD 7 would allow you to run 14", not 12". :D

And I think he literally meant 24" and 30" up the table, which seems to include the distance gained by running AND the 10" deployment.

[Crazy Uncle Doug]

Yeah, you can Feat early to make your MoWs fast on turn one, but I seriously find eVlad's Feat is best used when you're about to get into melee, because then you're hitting hard and soaking up hits like no one's business. That said, MoW's are still a great eVlad feat target. Makes them faster and hit even harder. Remember STs and DCs both have reach. Base charge for them is 7" + 2" of reach. That's not too shabby.

[HeroZero]

I run double full DCorps with Evlad all the time. I find it works great for timed turns, and no one enjoys feated Demo Corps. Hand of fate makes them just sweep off infantry units every turn. With evlad every DC is an assassination threat

[HeadHunter]

Double D's... that sounds naughty. :D

[John of Arc]

I like how a character Destroyer came out of left field to some people. ( I totally called it though. )


I'm thinking character Kodiak next. That would be very cool. Hopefully a "generic" character that is good with everyone and doesn't have any particular "affinity".

Nope. It's totally going to be a Spriggan or Devastator for Zerkova. I'm calling it right here.

I've been wanting to try Man o War with her for a while now. She can help them get the first strike with her feat, and I really want to see how they fair at attrition. It could be a total flop, or it could be too much armor to chew through.for opponents. I figure denying opponents the charge will go a long way towards enduring their survival. I'm also thinking I'll include a secondary tarpit, like some Steelhead Halberdiers to ensure that they don't get killed by banes and others that don't even need a charge. I'm mostly worried that they'll get one shotted making Mechaniks useless- and if my MoW soak Heavy Barrel shots instead of my jacks, that's a double heaping of uselessness since they're not repairing my jacks, either. On top of that, if a Demo Corp gets dropped low and isn't healed all the way back to full, then that heal might not even have made a difference anyway. I'm eager to try it out, but I'm just worried that there's not enough meat to chew through, and that I'll just be overrun. I'm hoping I can get them assembled before July, because I want to run it all with Conquest.

[Alex C]

I'd say eIrusk or eVald.

Yeah I said eVlad.

Actually I'm pretty sure you said "eVald"...

I've used Irusk2 to great effect with my Shocktroopers and Bombardiers. He gets my vote.

[John of Arc]

Wait, hold up, hold up. Never mind. I'm totally gonna run Demo Corp as my new pVlad honor guard. It'll be just like the doom limosine (I have no idea how to spell limosine) except that it does more damage and isn't immune to spells. I've never liked the doom-o-sine anyway because it feels like I'm not using Doom Reavers to their full potential, and it's too easy to kill them anyway with slams/throws and blast damage. More importantly, they won't die to Gun Mages. I still can't give them the first strike, but now they won't get shot to death on their way up. It will help them get stuck into melee after the initial charges are done, where they really shine. It's only three points up on Doom Reavers for what seems like a massive increase in survivability and a somewhat-less-massive-but-still-notable increase in damage. If I get around to trying it out, I'll let you guys know how it works out. I don't think I even own enough light jacks to proxy it all, so it'll probably have to be on Vassal :P

[Joasht]

Slightly off topic, but in relation with the previous post; I've never actually used or seen the much-touted pVlad Wind Walled-Doomreavers in action in Mk.II.I'd imagine that would put your caster in an extremely upfield position, not necessarily a good thing given that you can no longer S&P + BoK on the same turn. My worry about pVlad with DC is that it would put him even closer to the front lines.

[John of Arc]

You're free to kick them out of the limo at any time. Vlad doesn't have to carry them all the way to the frontlines, just for a turn or two to keep them safe from ranged attacks. Demo Corp aren't exactly frontline infantry anyway, so they'll usually like to hang about as far back as Vlad does until battle is joined. At that point, they can move up and counter charge the things that are in your face while Vlad continues spamming S&P, and then the turn after Vlad can join the fray now that (ideally) all their heavies are dead. That's how it works with Doom Reavers as well, though it feels weird to me holding them back like that. Kind of like it's a waste if they're not constantly threatening my opponent. It's not something you have to build around, but it's a tactic that keeps your caster and a high-damage unit fairly safe from shooting during the opening turns before they've gotten a chance to do their thing. You also don't want to fall into the trap of using it every single turn, since S&P plus Windwall is all of your focus, and 15/16 is a pretty easy kill if they can clear out your escort and put some damage on you. Overall, it's a really useful tactic, but not something you're going to use every turn, or even every game.