Khador red base problems...

[Kharnghareth]

Hi all! So my problem with khador red base that is acts differently almost any time i use it... When I repainted my Juggernaut it covered well in 2 layers over mechrite red undercoat, next time it was a bit harder to get a smooth surface... and when i repainted my Destroyer... it was a disaster... on the "powerplant" part's right side it's shiny, the left is satin... and both sides are rough-.-"... mixing seems to do nothing, watering down is useless, and too many layers are ugly... Any tips are welcome, and will be tested, I promise! I have lots of AKs waiting for paint, and i just started painting my great bears when I had enough of this!
I ask for your help great pros! How can I tame this... paint?

[Zenassassin]

If several layers don't give you a smooth, evne coat, then you didn't mix the paint up well, didn't thin it enough and use enough thin coats, or else have a problem with your primer. Or possibly have oil from your hands or something on it.

My guess would be, an uneven primer job...maybe from not shaking the can enough or painting in humid or cold weather outside?

[Kharnghareth]

Well... i shake khador red until my wrist don't hurts... oil from my hands is possible, and as khadoran I like when it's cold, but I don't paint out there xD... anyway thanks

[Oldgrue]

Couple of suggestions :
Agitators. A bb should do fine to help break up any clumps of pigment during your shaking festival.
Scrape the still damp paint from the underside of the cap back into the bottle, add a few drops of clean water, and a few drops of glaze medium. This should dilute the paint a little, and the glaze medium will help with the paint flow.
Edit:

Presuming it primed well (Halford's or Duplicolor Sandable Primer work wonders) the gloss is likely from an additive since Khador red base is matte normally. The Roughness would normally be from too much paint. Do you perhaps brush on a gloss or varnish of some sort? Maybe brush on glue to bases? I've found that even the water based ones can contaminate the water I clean my brushes with and only washing the jar with soap and water helps.

[Kharnghareth]

well... I follow this process:
1st step: if the model is a jack I pin and glue together the body, and place some putty on problematic areas
2nd step: after the putty is hardened, I primer the mini in parts, so body, arms, head, and legs... primering done by a drybrush but not by drybrushing (I have no money for a spray :( )
3rd step: than i pant the mini.. if there are red areas which I want to cover with Khador red, than i give it a coat of mechrite red, then Khador red, and highlights are done after outher colors are applied

on the table this stuff looks good... but from close :S... it's so ugly... and by comission I also paint Khador to a friend... so I want maximum quality...

[dgraz]

well... I follow this process:
1st step: if the model is a jack I pin and glue together the body, and place some putty on problematic areas - LET GLUE AND PUTTY CURE 24 HOURS.

2ND STEP: CLEAN THE MODEL WITH A SOFT TOOTHBRUSH AND WARM SOAPY WATER (DISH DETERGENT). RINSE WELL AND ALLOW TO DRY.

2nd step: after the putty is hardened, I primer the mini in parts, so body, arms, head, and legs... primering done by a drybrush but not by drybrushing (I have no money for a spray :( )

TOTALLY REMOVE YOUR STEP 2!!!!!!!
IF YOU WANT IT TOO LOOK GOOD (ESPECIALLY IF YOU'RE PAINTING FOR SOMEONE ELSE) FIND THE MONEY FOR SPRAY PRIMER. I RECOMMEND KRYLON FLAT GREY PRIMER. IT'S LIKE $3.00 A CAN. DON'T THINK KRYLON WORKS FINE? JUST LOOK BELOW.

3rd step: than i pant the mini.. if there are red areas which I want to cover with Khador red, than i give it a coat of mechrite red, then Khador red, and highlights are done after outher colors are applied

WANT A STRONG RICH RED? BASECOAT WITH SCORCHED BROWN / COVER WITH SCAB RED / START HIGHLIGHTING - RED GORE, BLOOD RED, BLAZING ORANGE.

STEP 4: SPRAY WITH KRYLON GLOSS CLEAR (CREATES A PROTECTIVE SHELL) - LET DRY/ SPRAY WITH KRYLON FLAT CLEAR (REMOVES THE GLOSS)


HOPE THIS HELPS. GOOD LUCK.
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj76/grazclan2/Trolls/th_100_1104.jpg (http://s269.photobucket.com/albums/jj76/grazclan2/Trolls/?action=view&current=100_1104.jpg)http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj76/grazclan2/Trolls/th_100_1082.jpg (http://s269.photobucket.com/albums/jj76/grazclan2/Trolls/?action=view&current=100_1082.jpg)http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj76/grazclan2/Trolls/th_100_1093.jpg (http://s269.photobucket.com/albums/jj76/grazclan2/Trolls/?action=view&current=100_1093.jpg)
(click for a closer look)

GOOD PAINTING.
dgraz

[Kharnghareth]

nice paintjobs :), and so I have to take an adventure to find Krylon sprays... if in my country I can find them... if I can't than one of the club members will give me more minis to paint... "No sacrifice, no victory!" And by the way... I think it's obvious to wait for the putty and the glue to dry :), blood red is horror for me... it made me to totally reapaint my D', but... man learns from failures... and thanks :)

PS: dear Spriggan and Infinity starter pack, you guys should wait (and bleed, muhahah) in the shop for a time at least...

[Kharnghareth]

one of the club members given me a tip: mechrite red undercoat, than mechrite red+fleshwash, highlight is: mechrite red+fleshwash+blood red, i've seen minis painted this way and they look good... but I want some really bright red, thats why I'm so stubborn with Khador red... and that red looks good with the so much black I paint:P

[dgraz]

Sorry, didn't notice you were in Hungary - I'm sure you could find something comparable. Mechrite red is one of the foundation paints which is not really meant for normal painting/highlighting so I've never tried it but if you like that look then go for it.

[thrasymacus]

Yes. Wash your models. Learn how to use spray primer. Doing it wrong can cause a lot of problems and it's not always straight forward and every brand is different. I use all P3's for my Red, starting with Sanguine>Skorne>Khador>Khador Highlight. Then I wash with thin bright yellow. Then I go in the opposite direction and use increasingly dark washes to shade.

Mechrite will work fine though. You shouldn't have to kill yourself shaking your paint pot. Something is up with that. Doesn't sound right. p3's should be pretty silky, though they often split.

[Kharnghareth]

Yes. Wash your models. Learn how to use spray primer. Doing it wrong can cause a lot of problems and it's not always straight forward and every brand is different. I use all P3's for my Red, starting with Sanguine>Skorne>Khador>Khador Highlight. Then I wash with thin bright yellow. Then I go in the opposite direction and use increasingly dark washes to shade.

Mechrite will work fine though. You shouldn't have to kill yourself shaking your paint pot. Something is up with that. Doesn't sound right. p3's should be pretty silky, though they often split.
Your minis should look awesome... could you post pics? :D

[Kharnghareth]

Sorry, didn't notice you were in Hungary - I'm sure you could find something comparable. Mechrite red is one of the foundation paints which is not really meant for normal painting/highlighting so I've never tried it but if you like that look then go for it.
No problem ^^, and i looked around on the net... i found no krylon stuff in the country... #&@$!

[dgraz]

The main point was that you don't have to use the expensive "mini-primers", anything that gives a good even coat without being chalky will work.

[nickg36c]

GW do good sprays in black and white and i do all my under coating with them, have just started my new Khador army and used these spray.

[thrasymacus]

I've actually heard really good things about P3 spray, but I'm still working my way through all my old GW stuff. Since they switch formula a lot of people have become unhappy with the new (2 years old now) spray. I like it alright, but I'm very careful putting it on. I do relatively (dangerously) close sprays, but in light bursts so as not to ruin detail, and obviously follow up with a good going over with a brush and some regular black paint.

I'd like to post pictures but I don't have a photo white screen/box picture thing. I should really get something set up but I keep putting it off.

[Kharnghareth]

I just buyed an army painter matt white, it works good, back to khador red... i tried it mixing with mixing medium... a bit better... but still not what it should be... still rough and shiny :/... i think I shall by a nother pot rather than suffer with this... but now as i look on my Sorscha her skirt has the same effect... but it was not done with red... by first i wanted that skirt to be red... and done a mechrite red undercoat... but after it... it was done with a mix of bleached bone and thamar black...

[Zenassassin]

If you want a true Khador Red, like a bright primary red, don't put a dark color under it, put a light color. P3 paint will cover it if you stirred it well (opposite of James Bond- stirred not shaken). Use several thin layers, thinned with water, not medium.

[Kharnghareth]

so, I should use white primer, ok, it's better than black in many situations :), should I keep the mechrite red layer?

[manymoles]

Some prep I used to do with metal minis is wire brushing the whole piece.
In some kits/blisters you regocnize a different look if the metal pieces. One part looks really shiny and one other looks dull through oxidations on the surface.

First off clearing the mouldlines and in some cases some heavy filing misscasts, I wash all the things. Warm water and dish detergent is fine combined with a toothbrush (never use your own one :p)
Now I set up my Dremel tool and a wirebrush Bit for it. I polish all the parts with wirebrush. They will really shine und get an even and flat surface afterwards.

For priming I go for black as 1st and white as 2nd layer in most cases. Black is used first to cover all things up. Afterwards I wash it with Chaos Black or similar to get all covered even. Then a white primer is dusted on top of that black one (you don't want real coverage). If done right you'll end up with a greyish tone of risen or flat areas and some fine black in deep recess.
It combines both advantages of black (easier shading) and white primer (better color coverage).

One point it can't stress out enough: Green stuff should be able to cure 24h! I have minis were arms (for example) just pinned and green stuffed together with out any glue.

[dgraz]

all you guys spray priming - I'm tellin' ya, try grey. you'll be surprised.

use water to thin paints, not a medium.

[manymoles]

Water stripped paints can become chalky if too much diluted. At that point some painting medium is handy.
Paints are not build up from pigments and water only. A medium helps to get a smooth suspension of pigments. But this only applies to really thined down paints (as for layering/feathering).

One thing to point out: In Germany we have really chalky water in some areas, so I use always distilled water to thin down my paint. Prevents some strange bevahior between water and pigments.

[Kharnghareth]

thanks guys :)