Nephilim Soldier & Relentless charge?

[Nargacuga]

I don't really get this, since wings are nerfed now, why not just give him flight?

I mean, what are those wings for anyways?

[Sevwall]

He could charge over obstructions and models with flight, as well as ignoreing models for LOS purposes before the charge. That might not be overpowered, but making it flight is more than just a superficial change.

He would be able to charge through your own models. That might be a big deal.

[Defenstrator]

I'm basicly fine with it. I could never take his flying that seriously since with that muscular body and stubby wings he has the aerodynamics of a brick taped to a paper airplane.

The big question is, do you find that he's worth 5 points?

[garbon]

The animus can be worth it, depending. It's great on the harrier, for an autohitting pow 10 +3d6, a 1" move, another attack with 1 for boost, and a 7"move (hopefully you kill the second guy, maybe it's better to boost the charge and truestrike teh extra attack)

I do miss glide tho. and Hyper reflexes. Charging out of melee in any direction was sick.

He used to be super special, now he's just an animus with a pow14 reach.

[jpopp1989]

how does said harrier gain autohitting, it can only have 1 animus on it so its either autohitting or charging for free and gaining an extra attack with 1 inch move, seems like it would be better on a rabid shredder, all boosted attacks free charge + 1 fury to completely boost the 2nd attack would be nice

[blitzmonkey]

Maybe he means pg 43 of the test:
A warbeast can be forced to use its animus any time during its
activation but cannot interrupt its movement or attack to use
its animus. It can use its animus before moving, after moving,
before an attack, or after an attack but not while moving
or attacking. A warbeast cannot use its animus during an
activation it ran.

So basically, you have massacre on. You have to charge. You do charge movement, then you force for animus of harrier, auto-hitting with charge attack!

[Neutralyze]

neph soldier is fine with relentless charge. if he got flight he would cost more.

[wizuriel]

I find he is not worth a 5pt beast. He just doesn't seem to hit hard enough. I really think he should get his attack upped to 15 P+S or even 16. Argus for circle is 4 pts and hits harder than a Nephilim.

I'm also finding against high armour we don't have that much to get through it (except for expensive elite models).

[BigRed]

I have used the Nephlim soldier twice now. In the first game he rocked, sat behind some forest until my opponents light beast got in range then charged. Second game was not so good, same stratagy, but this time had some bad rolls, got swarmed then died.

I like that he has furious charge, in MKI i could rarely get good charge lanes due to rough terrain, now its all peachy :).

[Neutralyze]

I find he is not worth a 5pt beast. He just doesn't seem to hit hard enough. I really think he should get his attack upped to 15 P+S or even 16. Argus for circle is 4 pts and hits harder than a Nephilim.

I'm also finding against high armour we don't have that much to get through it (except for expensive elite models).

i do not see a 5 pt beast with pow 16 happening. that means vayl gets him to be a 5 pt pow 18.

5 pts it just fine.

[wizuriel]

i do not see a 5 pt beast with pow 16 happening. that means vayl gets him to be a 5 pt pow 18.

5 pts it just fine.

and with nearly everyone else he has 1 pow 16 attack. It does 2 more P+S than the protector, its animus is nice but more situational. The Raek is nearly as effective for slamming and I feel a tad easier to use. The protector for the same cost brings some much needed defense to Legion. The protector animus is amazing because wow does knockdown suck against legion models.

The Nephilim just doesn't seem to stand up against other 5pt beasts. Something like Cleave or flight on the charge and +1S would at least make it stand out more.

[Soulblighter]

The Nephilim Soldier seems fine at 5 points. I just wish his animus was a little better.

[SteakAndSpirits]

In-faction competitors are the Teraph, Protector, and himself for the 5 point range. Of the three, he's going to be swinging the hardest with his P+S: 14 damage. Additionally, while the Protector brings an excellent animus (Especially in light of those wonky shake/frenzy rules), the Soldier is going to do more damage and hit more often.

He's fairly priced at 5 points. Mind you, he's extremely vanilla. He won't be the most exciting model to field. But he's not a /bad/ model, just a boring model.

Other factions Beasts with a Point of 5 include:

Trolls: Pyre Troll, Troll Bouncer, Troll Impaler
Circle: Woldwyrd
Skorne: Cyclops Brute, Cyclops Savage

Most of those beasts do outshine the Nephilim, and the Cyclops Savage is probably the best model to do a direct comparison to. It brings an animus more useful in most cases (Especially with our Carnivean's MAT: 5), with a higher point of ARM and a lower P+S.

It seems that there will be some cases where having two Nephilim Soldiers is preferrable to a single Carnivean - With their reach and ability to threaten 11" through forrests, they're not a total wash.

So while they're 'fairly' priced at 5 points, and indeed will find their way in some lists, they're not 'well' priced at 5 points, where they're making a competitive bid to steal the spotlight.

-s&s

[garbon]

Maybe he means pg 43 of the test:
A warbeast can be forced to use its animus any time during its
activation but cannot interrupt its movement or attack to use
its animus. It can use its animus before moving, after moving,
before an attack, or after an attack but not while moving
or attacking. A warbeast cannot use its animus during an
activation it ran.

So basically, you have massacre on. You have to charge. You do charge movement, then you force for animus of harrier, auto-hitting with charge attack!


how does said harrier gain autohitting, it can only have 1 animus on it so its either autohitting or charging for free and gaining an extra attack with 1 inch move, seems like it would be better on a rabid shredder, all boosted attacks free charge + 1 fury to completely boost the 2nd attack would be nice


Wow, I think I just got away with some shenanigans.

Totally. Damn. That would have been cool.

[blitzmonkey]

Wow, I think I just got away with some shenanigans.

Forgot to say, you wouldn't get your 1 inch massacre move and attack btw.

[Necra-Chi]

The nephilim doesn't have flight because if it did then nobody would ever take the seraph.

j/k

a bit


Also the nephilim soldier is practically just there for his awesome animus. he can be a very reliable little backline fighter, killing engaging infantry so your heavy hitters don't have to.

[Neutralyze]

and with nearly everyone else he has 1 pow 16 attack. It does 2 more P+S than the protector, its animus is nice but more situational. The Raek is nearly as effective for slamming and I feel a tad easier to use. The protector for the same cost brings some much needed defense to Legion. The protector animus is amazing because wow does knockdown suck against legion models.

The Nephilim just doesn't seem to stand up against other 5pt beasts. Something like Cleave or flight on the charge and +1S would at least make it stand out more.

out of all the listed 5 pt beasts he has the highest P+S at 14. he can charge through rough terrain now as well. His animus give himself or another model the ability to charge for free.

I dont get how he doesnt stack up to other models, please explain.

[Lazlo]

Also the nephilim soldier is practically just there for his awesome animus. he can be a very reliable little backline fighter, killing engaging infantry so your heavy hitters don't have to.

In Mk I I would generally keep him back and wait for a good charge opportunity. Often I would use him to gum up the enemy lines, particularly with Saeryn or Thagrosh (he was a favorite to bring back for me because I could get him down field and killed pretty fast).

In Mk II I've been using him how you describe to clear off things that engage my heavies when I didn't want to commit them to the task, and that seems to be working ok.

P+S 14 with reach seems pretty decent for 5 points, though the P+S 16 attacks that the argus and the gorgon get makes me a little jealous. At least they can't buy additional P+S 16 attacks.

[Devilsquid]

I've always liked the Soldier as a 'second wave' kind of beast, who can go in an surgically strike models that are in the way. He's got reach, which is good on a medium beast, and has a solid POW and way to get there. He'll make a good flanker, chilling behind terrain till he jumps out and kills whatevers in there.

Actually, he'd be good for clearing enemies out of terrain. If a sniper or whatever is hiding in the woods, the Soldier can easily charge into the terrain or through it to kill whatever's lurking in there

And having it's animus to cast is never a bad thing. Throw it on a Carni or Angelius for some fun times.

[mladizmaj]

I think this model needs Thresher attack and to be 6p lets say. None of our models have this advantage and with his great animus he would be very useful against infantry i think.

Now he is just animus on 5p stick. Was testing him a lot because of anti infantry potential of his animus on raek or angelius and he never end up killing anything more then one or two troopers per game.

[Neutralyze]

You have yo set him up for the chance at hitting those light jacks and beasts.