So tell me a little bit about Khador.

[Ravnak]

I'm going to have a good read of the MK2 rules soon, and see what some of the casters, jacks and units do.

In the meantime, I thought I'd ask some people to tell me a few of their favorite items, so that I can put together a nice "splashy" group. (I'm looking for things I'll find fun, not to win any tournaments...)

[Aries37]

1.Khador is one of the most fun factions imo.
2.We are the only faction to have both strong range and melee.
3.Our jacks are slow, easy to hit, and expensive. However they are also the most durable and can win any jack-on-jack fight.
4.We have no arc nodes, mainly because our casters generally have no tricks. In return we get great buff spells and a few of the casters are very capable in combat.
5. Our infantry hit hard and can function well without support.

My favourite model for hilarious games is the berserker. It's pretty bad but always fun if you run it hot on focus.

[Ravnak]

The bezerkers look very cool.

Model wise the two unique guys, Behemoth and Drago look wonderful. I'd have fun painting them, if nothing else.

How jack heavy can the lists get, out of interest? I'd quite like to just load up on jacks, but I'm not sure how gimping that would be. (while I aim to have fun, I dont want to just outright lose every game)

[ChainGun]

Easily. Karchev, Vlad and epic Butcher can easily handle 4 warjacks. Prime Butcher can handle 2-3.

[Aries37]

You can go jack heavy pretty easily. If you want a good chance of winning your best bets are Karchev and pVlad.
Both have spells which improve attack and damage (think incite/manifest destiny) for the whole battlegroup and both can speed up our jacks so that they actually get to use these attacks.

If you like Drago and Behemoth pVlad is probably your man. Drago is pretty much only playable with Vlad, and while the Behemoth is incredible with everyone bombards under Signs and Portents is about as good as things get.

Both casters could technically run an infinite number of jacks but 3 is the upper limit before things start to go downhill. Remembering that the Behemoth is 13 points- and that our other stellar jack Beast 09 is 11 points- you can almost hit 30points with just 4 models. If youre going jack heavy, remember to bring battle mechaniks, they're awesome.

[mooseyjoe]

First, Ditto on everything Aries said. Vlad does everything well, especially jack heavy lists. Behemoth isn't just good for his bombards though. There isn't a model in the game his armor piercing fists won't shred with a bit of focus and help from signs and portents.


We have access to a lot of long range area effect weapons, as well as a plethora of axes. Here in Khador we like axes so much that we even use them for guns.

http://privateerpress.com/files/products/khador/solos/man-o-war-kovnik.png

Our biggest weakness is probably how close to the front our warcasters have to be.


Edit: I almost forgot to mention the kodiak. It is quite a versatile and impressive jack that runs for free, has pathfinder, an auto hitting anti infantry attack (that doubles as a nice defensive cloud effect), two open fists, and the potential to make free power attacks. I've had a lot of fun running two at once in some lists.

Edited Again: I accidentally called the Kodiak little. My Sincerest apologies to the mother land and its most famous warmachines.

[littleatomies]

If you want 'jack heavy, I whole heartedly recommend Karchev! He's basically a warjack himself. Unearthly rage more than makes up for his rather low focus (5 or 6, depending on whether or not you take +2 spd and pathfinder) as there's no need for the warjacks to boost with focus in melee anymore. I actually ran him today with four jacks and two squads of mechanics and crushed my legion friend. Loading yourself up with Khador jacks is definitely not gimping yourself :D

[The 13th Doomreaver]

Most of the Khador warcasters, besides those mentioned above, can only realistically run 1-2 warjacks effectively.

One of the great things about Khador is the infantry that we can bring along. Iron Fang Pikemen hit like warjacks (and there's 12 of them) Man-o-Wars are as tough as lights (There's 5 per unit) and anyone can love the Winter Guard mortar crew's troop clearing ability...

Khador is the toolbox faction, I would think.

[Ravnak]

I'm more interested in the big robots than the teeny men :)

I want something a little different if I'm starting a second collection of PP figures.

[ChainGun]

...the kodiak. It is quite the versatile little jack...

Please forgive comrade mooseyjoe. The motherland does not have such a thing as a "little" warjack :)

[mooseyjoe]

My apologies, I must correct my mistake before the political kovniks do it for me.

[vytzka]

My apologies, I must correct my mistake before the political kovniks do it for me.
How unfortunate. I'm sure gulag guards will be sympathetic.

[Rogue Sun]

I'm more interested in the big robots than the teeny men :)


Perhaps you have not seen the Man-o-wars. There is nothing 'teeny' about them. You must not think of them as infantry. Yes, that is their technical classification, but really they are our light warjacks - except better. They are more survivable than light jacks and hit like trucks both against jacks and beasts, but infantry as well.

One thing to look out for is that Khador Jacks seem more susceptible to being bogged down by enemy infantry than other factions. Many of our jacks don't have a whole lot of close range crowd control, Beast, the Kodiak and Devastator being the exceptions.

[Khador247]

If you're looking at a fun, hard hitting army try the Butcher, Great Bears, Demo Corps, and warjacks.

[sharpe]

I'd say you could run 3 jacks with pButcher easily. I would worry about doing it with Vlad, because I'm not sure Signs and Portents can make up for the focus limitations, but I could be dead wrong. Throw in another jack tied to a Kovnik if you need to, but I don't trust jack marshals to push my guys all that far. I wouldn't put anything more complicated than a Juggy, Kodiak or Destroyer on him. Karchev, who I don't play, can certainly run three aswell.

[PWC]

Dont believe a word that our warjacks are slow. When you factor in spells and abilities, our warjacks are the "fastest" in the game (i.e. Big K).

And yeah, we're vulnerable because our casters are always in the thick of the fighting.

[phantem2]

I would go out of my way to mention that some our warcasters set the bar for all melee models. Just the other day I charged the Butcher with pSorcha after he had gutted most my army with doomreavers on his feat turn, I failed to kill him and he took out def 20 Sorcha no problem with one swing. That being said I failed to kill him because I missed one attack.

pVlad has easily survived retaliation after some bad rolls against an enemy warcaster to go on and finish the job.

Even eIrusk, my primary warcaster has carved his way through a unit or two when in a tight spot. With ease that even suprised me none the less my opponent.

But for a starting warcaster I recommend pVlad, hes a solid warcaster with an easy learning curve.

[Ravnak]

So. I've been looking at what I'd like to do. and I've decided I'm definately going to do a khador list.

Ive sat and read the mk2 cards, plus looked at the models on the website, to see what I like visually.

While I like a couple of the casters (butcher v1 and v2 for full throttle and vlad v1 for speedy-feat and +1dice -1 bad dice) I really like the look of Karchev. Hes just a big mean badass. How can I resist. (I might get one or two of the others too, for when I fancy a slight change.

Model wise, I'm a little... uneducated on jacks. I'm not sure how points and damage and such work out.

Drago looks so beautiful I'm running him regardless. After that, I love how kodiacs look, I think bezerkers are nice, and marauders look nice too. Juggernauts look okish, and devastators... well. I love their arms, hate their heads.

I do feel I might need devastators just for the troop murdering comedy aoe. (I wonder if I can swap bodys, to get a nicer head?).

Does anyone have advice on how many jacks can I run? (I'd love to go 100% jack, and not bother with units). Are there any that I should avoid from what I've listed?

General advice so I can pre-tune my initial purchases would be nice.


Thanks in advance for all help given.

[Khador247]

If you're going to go with Karchev and jacks make sure to have Mechaniks on hand.

[Uehen]

I would suggest at least one or two units and solos. 100% jacks is easy to counter if you know it is coming.
Most of our decent jacks are 9 to 13 points, so they quickly fill the lists of even larger games. You can, but mechanics, a dog, snipers and wizards are good small units to help out large jack forces.

[Ravnak]

I liked the look of man'o'wars and pikemen to be honest. (especially MoWs, since they look like baby jacks)...

Is there a maximum number of jacks I should use btw? I notice that the bezerkers charge for free and boost for free (due to spell) so I presume theres no real negative for having extra jacks?

Are there any "must haves" or "must avoids" so far as the jacks go?

[studderingdave]

Beast 09 is GREAT, i would suggest him. he goes well with all casters. good MAT with reach and thresher.

i like the behemoth for his dual purpose, sit back and shoot or move up to scrap a jack.

i always include the dog when i can, and 2 manhunters and yuri are usually in my 35 pointers, as are the bears.

[Mayhem1979]

Okay, specific advice from a person who uses Karchev almost exclusively.

He can realistically handle as many jacks as you can fit... if you pick the right jacks. But will always needs some infantry and solo support to be truely effective.

'Zerkers are cheap and are the most delicate of our jacks... meaning they're every bit as tough as most of our opponents tougher jacks. They also have a rather entertaining ability to kamikaze (if you want them to or not) if you give them focus. Fortunately Karchev will never need to give one focus (unless he really really wants to). They run for free, charge for free, and his unearthly rage spell boosts all of their attack and damage rolls. Axe, Axe, and then a chain attack headbutt. With Karchev they shine, and our beloved Drago is just a meaner version of one of them.

Beast 09 is pretty much a must. Unearthly Rage makes his pow 19 reach Thresher attack one of the nasiset infantry clearers in the game, and the critcal on that weapon freezes things in place.. assuming they survive. His ability to add another die to all attacks against living warrior models means he can hit just about anything or anyone in the game.. including some of the hardest to kill casters... and do it reliably.

Behemoth is incredible no matter what caster you run him with, but Karchev can only rarely spare focus for his bombards, so remember, use them to finish of the stuff that your 'Zerkers headbutt into the ground and general crowd control.

Devestators are great for clearing troops and playing linebacker for him with their insane armor.

Kodiaks run for free and have a nasty chain attack. The running for free means they can keep up with Big K without him having to tow them around all of the time or feed them focus. And anything that saves big K focus is a good thing. They can also can make sidearms even more fun by using their steam clouds to up the groups defense a further 2. You can get Khadoran jacks up to defense 15 with that trick.. 16 if they're 'Zerkers.

After that, the rest of the jacks stand more or less on their own merits, instead of how well they support Big K's play style, as Karchev makes any of our jacks nasty.


As for infantry and Solos... I like Mortars, Widowmakers, Fenris, Uhlans, and a few others. Fast moving flankers, ranged support, and infantry clearers. All basically there to keep Karchev and his jacks from being swarmed by little squishy people and gaurd their flanks in general.

Oh.. and you can never go awry with a Wardog for Karchev (+2 defense for the win!) and mechanics to patch up Karchev and his jacks as they get dinged up.

All that said... welcome to Khador. now go his womthing with an axe and make the Motherland proud. :D

[Ravnak]

I resisted getting some man'o'wars for my first purchase and went with the following:

Karchev
Beast 09
Devastator
2 Bezerkers
Marauder (Thats the 35 point mark by my count?)

And a unit of Iron Fang Pikemen, so I can drop a jack for them if need be, and to help me on my way to 50 points (which is something I'll aim for for mid january.)

Oh, and I bought a wardoggy. Because a) I like doggys, and b) one of my opponents regularly needs an extra point to fit things in his list.

[tneva82]

I resisted getting some man'o'wars for my first purchase and went with the following:

Karchev
Beast 09
Devastator
2 Bezerkers
Marauder (Thats the 35 point mark by my count?)

2x6+9+7+11-5=34 but close enough. Might want to put wardog in it since it happens to be 1 point and not useless.

[zombie-a-go-go]

No one seems to have mentioned the fact that a Bokur is invaluable with Karchev to Shield Guard Eiryss' Disruptor Bolts away. It's very difficult to hide Karchev among his army, so you need another way to keep Eiryss from making you useless.

[tneva82]

No one seems to have mentioned the fact that a Bokur is invaluable with Karchev to Shield Guard Eiryss' Disruptor Bolts away. It's very difficult to hide Karchev among his army, so you need another way to keep Eiryss from making you useless.

Provided you aren't facing retribution who will simply either drag karchev out of bokur's reach or bokur out of karchev's reach...

But yea bokur is handy.

[studderingdave]

once you get some games in i would suggest getting mechanics, if you get nothing else at least get them.i would even drop the marauder for a double unit of them, i find them to be a necessity and a great asset to the khador line.

[Ravnak]

There is a gentlemans agreement locally to not use Eiryss. God bless "non-competitive" play.




I have an issue with mechanics. They dont look nice :P I might have to bow down and get them anyway though. :(

[Ravnak]

I got some mechanics in the end. I realised it was just the paintjob I didnt like on the ones on the pp website.

Heres a photo of my starting group. (missing parts prevented the other jack making it to the photo shoot). I'll put this in the general "my army section too, but I thought you guys would like to see it more.


http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/1261/warmachineuq.jpg (http://img171.imageshack.us/i/warmachineuq.jpg/)

[Gnoa]

[QUOTE=PWC;17601]Dont believe a word that our warjacks are slow. When you factor in spells and abilities, our warjacks are the "fastest" in the game (i.e. Big K).
/QUOTE]

By the Empress man, SSSSHHHHH! Do you know how long our propaganda...er i mean our information sharing campaign has been toting this to the enemies of the Motherland! They believe it, as they should.

No fast jacks to see here, move along....move along!

[PWC]

I got some mechanics in the end. I realised it was just the paintjob I didnt like on the ones on the pp website.

Heres a photo of my starting group. (missing parts prevented the other jack making it to the photo shoot). I'll put this in the general "my army section too, but I thought you guys would like to see it more.


http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/1261/warmachineuq.jpg (http://img171.imageshack.us/i/warmachineuq.jpg/)

Nice hills. :P I gotta say, you got those guys together nice and quick, I still haven't glued the arms to my doom reavers from a year ago :/

[Ravnak]

They were done by friday lunchtime (and had their first game friday night). I just forgot to get a photo :P

The hills, btw, are some old GW ones I got my hands on. I repaired cracks with a little plasticard on the underside, then ran long pins through into some trees (again old GW ones I inherited) into the hill, for sturdyness, coated them in watered down pva and sand. Let it dry, very watered down pva over the sand, then painted brown, drybrushed and static grassed. Very easy to do. Was a combination of a repair job, and a dislike of the "golf course" GW style hills...

[Avecrien]

So your speed paint looks better than my 110% and all the time in the world jobs. And you rock the landscape. I hate you. But I'm glad you're on our side :)

[Caecus Scius]

BTW, you can effectively run more jacks in Khador than any other faction. Our jack marshalls are bad *****, and we can run a lot of guys with them.


You could run PButch, Big K, or Vlad with 3-4 jacks and then also run 2 kovniks each with 2 jacks and maybe a koldun lord in there with his own jack or just to power boost someone elses...

IF you are running a lot of bombards then this works very well..

[Khador247]

Nice looking army especially with the speed at which it was painted. Nicely done!

I used a Karchev list today at 35 points. It consisted of Karchev, Spriggan, Beast 09, Juggernaut, Fenris, Mechaniks, Wardog, and Bokur. I went up against EStryker. I won the game but there was an element of luck involved. EStryker powered himself up but only got an extra four strength. He missed on his charge attack thanks to the +2 DEF from the Warpuppy. The highlight of the game for me was the Spriggan trampling over a Stormblade and smashing a Stormclad. I used Karchev's feat for the trample so I'd have all three focus available for more attacks. He also cast Unearthly Rage. EStryker did 11 points of damage to himself when he powered up.

[baronvonchaos]

This seemed like an appropriate forum to post this in. How is (p or e)Irusk? I was looking at his spell list and he seems to be a pretty balanced caster (between troops and jacks). He looks mean and frustrating to try and beat. My friend is a vlad fanatic and after quite a few games of trying to wax that crazy kook I finally figured out ways to beat him. Now he's looking for another caster. Irusk looks solid... very solid... My friend likes running doomies, widowmakers, WG, and Greylords. He has some MoW ST's, but they're in pieces right now so he hasn't been playing them.

Any Troops choices that are preferable in Khador? I don't play khador, so I really haven't done much studying. Help me out here ;)

on a side note, lol
I noticed you guys also use slang terms for your casters. Not sure who "Big K" is but I assume that's Karchev... I don't post much in the Khador forums...

Oh and nice lookin' army btw. Love the paint job.
　

[Avecrien]

Special K is Karchev, yah.
pIrusk has a fantastic jack buff that makes you want to bring at least one but he's more of an infantry man. eIrusk can use a jack but is very much an infantry man. Vlad is versatile but more of a melee caster. He wrecks face. Irusk directs face. He's a mastermind and general delegating the carnage amongst the citizenry.

Their playstyles are well different. I love them both. I'm waiting on the rifle corps before I go nuts on eIrusk again though. Right now Butcher seems to be the hot flavor.

[littleatomies]

Oh, and I bought a wardoggy. Because a) I like doggys, and b) one of my opponents regularly needs an extra point to fit things in his list.
Hehe, wardog is pretty much an auto include in any list for me. You just can't beat +2 def in melee, immune to freestrikes and backstrikes, and countercharge/return on a one point WA! That, and I too love doggies. My roommates and boyfriend (my usual opponents) unfortunately -hate- it and have started focusing on my poor puppy as a high priority target :(.

[Khador247]

This seemed like an appropriate forum to post this in. How is (p or e)Irusk?

I'm not a huge fan of MKII PIrusk. He's on the lower end of our caster choices in my opinion. EIrusk, on the other hand, is near the top of our caster list in my opinion. Martial Discipline, Tough, Fire For Effect, Fury, Artifice of Deviation, Energizer, etc etc etc. He's got a lot going for him. If he's not our best caster in MKII he has to be near the top.

[littleatomies]

I'm not a huge fan of MKII PIrusk. He's on the lower end of our caster choices in my opinion.
pIrusk also lost a lot of his good with the changes to rough terrain movement/charge rules, and the addition of wads of pathfinder :(. He's still a fun caster though, superiority and grind have won games for me.

[RoyalAssassin]

Hehe, wardog is pretty much an auto include in any list for me. You just can't beat +2 def in melee, immune to freestrikes and backstrikes, and countercharge/return on a one point WA! That, and I too love doggies. My roommates and boyfriend (my usual opponents) unfortunately -hate- it and have started focusing on my poor puppy as a high priority target

I'm the roommate she's talking about, and I do in fact detail a Deathstalker to erase that damn dog. It's vastly more infuriating on the table than you'd think to read the card.

Some thoughts on Khador from the other side of the table; I'm making the assumption (based on your comment about not knowing jacks very well) that you're not a long-term Warmachine player, but I know you're solid at Legion from your posts over there. If I'm restating the obvious, I apologize - it's not done out of malice.

First off - I can't believe this thread has gone on this long without anyone bringing up Great Bears. They're three little guys that hit like three very large trucks, grant each other a stack of special abilities, and increase each other's armor when they're touching each other. They're perfectly capable of trashing Legion heavies on the charge, and bargain priced at 5 points. They're the most consistent bane of my game room.

If you're running Karchev, there's this powerslide oddity that catapults a stack of jacks an obscene distance across the field.

Unearthly Rage is the best spell in the game.

You can fit more jacks into Karchev's control area than you might think. I routinely see three or four in there. I bet I'd see more if we were playing at higher points.

Coming in from Legion, you'll be pleasantly surprised at how resilient your jacks are. Heavy armor, lots of hit boxes - when someone totals up damage and tells you "25", it's not the crisis situation your Angels faced. It's five points, not enough to blow a system unless the jack was already damaged. On the downside, you'll hear some amount of damage called on virtually every attack - Khador jacks aren't very dodgy and they do get hit a lot.

Allocating focus is awful. You look at your jacks, and you look at your little pool of Focus, and try to stretch five or six little glass beads over three or four jacks that are all crying for three each, and a Behemoth crying for 5. I didn't really appreciate how much more convenient forcing was until I had to try allocating focus. On the bright side, warjacks don't threaten Frenzy. This (on top of awesome efficiency) is why I accuse Unearthly Rage of being the best spell in the game.

Behemoth erases heavies. It feels like he's moving slow because he's slowed down by the Angels he has strapped to each arm. He's pricy, but he's pricy for a reason.

Just some thoughts :)

Edit: Apologies to Khador247 - I completely missed your comment on Great Bears. Sorry about that :(

[Marth]

pIrusk also lost a lot of his good with the changes to rough terrain movement/charge rules, and the addition of wads of pathfinder :(. He's still a fun caster though, superiority and grind have won games for me.

Well, I still like him. Pathfinder's been there before (one of my regular opponents uses TB's = Fell Caller, or take Rhupert), so that's less of an issue for me. He still works very much the same, and I.G. still denies charges, you just need to be a little further away. It wasn't as frustrating as the Temporal Barrier spam, but still very strong. Superiority is still my #1 Buff, Grind now works better, the Feat got stronger. As I said, I still like him.

Oh, and he also lost Confusion. Thank you, God.

[Ravnak]

You can fit more jacks into Karchev's control area than you might think. I routinely see three or four in there. I bet I'd see more if we were playing at higher points.(

108 would fit, interestingly :P

I'm not sure how usefull that would be though :)




[edit]: 108 fit if you grid them, I think you could get another ring of them in if you tessalated better... 148 I think, off the top of my head, but we're being silly then.

[Aries37]

108 would fit, interestingly :P

I'm not sure how usefull that would be though :)




[edit]: 108 fit if you grid them, I think you could get another ring of them in if you tessalated better... 148 I think, off the top of my head, but we're being silly then.
Well there's my interesting fact for the day. If you work it out properly I'll add it to my sig lol ;)

[Kuarnix]

108 would fit, interestingly :P

I'm not sure how usefull that would be though :)




[edit]: 108 fit if you grid them, I think you could get another ring of them in if you tessalated better... 148 I think, off the top of my head, but we're being silly then.


On possibly a more uh...playable note, I'm strongly considering running most every 'jack I own in a 75 point game with Karchev. I think it comes to...4 Juggernauts, 1 Beserker, 2 Kodiaks, 2 Destroyers, a Devastator to take point...leaving me with 3 points left over for a Wardog, and Mechaniks. Come get some! ;)

Actually I'm 2 spriggans, a Beast, a Destroyer, and 2 Maruaders shy....looks like I need to be shooting for 125!

[Avecrien]

I love seeing other people's collections. We need an "I own this, cheer on my money sin-err, hobby!" subforum.

I know my interests in the game have grown when I get a 2nd Deva just so I can custom pose it. I wanna capture a mid-RoD feel. I'm not sure what to fashion a mild crater around him out of though.

[Appolus]

pIrusk also lost a lot of his good with the changes to rough terrain movement/charge rules, and the addition of wads of pathfinder :(. He's still a fun caster though, superiority and grind have won games for me.

I still find pRusk to be deadly, especially with my all IF theme list. Iron flesh on the pikemen makes them darn near impossible to break up effectively in 3 man clusters. Toss battle lust on the Cavalry and you are looking at a P+S 16+4d6 charge from considerable distance. Superiority makes my favored Spriggan a guided missile (MAT 10 on the 11" charge with a P+S18? yes thank you). Let's not forget that for a 1 point Reinholdt investment you can have the man himself put out 3 boostable POW 13 shots from that snazzy gunblade of his. Most casters don't expect my passive-looking kommandant to do his best Caine impression and leave them full of holes.

I never really did use IG a whole lot anyway. Mostly since I play a lot against Haley, and we had a gentlemans'(and womans') agreement to not abuse our molasses spells. We didn't want glaciers to move faster than our games.

Grind got a heck of a lot more useful now, and I have never once cast Airburst.