Infantry Discussion

[Rakielis]

So I'd like to hear some thoughts on mkII infantry. I'm fairly new to miniatures and warmachine (started playing a few months back but don't get to play very often).

I own some stormblades and long gunners and that is about it for infantry right now. The long gunners feel a big expensive to me but are still very powerful.

The problem I tend to have with stormblades is that they tend to get torn apart by my roommates khador mortars really quickly. Last night, only a single one even managed to make it to the enemy (and they were spread out).

How the hell can I deal with mortars?

[mooseyjoe]

I would just accept the fact that something had to die on the way across that field and be glad it was only the storm blades.


I was hoping to catch thunder head a little earlier.

[NamuelLJackson]

MKII is more focused on Warjack combat. Most of Cygnar's casters have defensive spells that buff up DEF directly or make collateral damage templates bounce off harmlessly. The mortar is so inaccurate that it shouldn't be making direct hits on your troops. Deviations are half damage. I also know that this game allows for the freak chance die-rolls to ruin a person's day; it happens. They're not for me, but you may want to take a look at Trenchers. They're pretty expensive but have a ton of expansions. Siege will also allow you to move up your Blades and laugh at blast damage.

[Kenjiro]

Against AOE's Arcane Shield is probably your best bet. I don't necessarily recommend this but you could also throw in Rhupert and hope for some tough rolls in addition to Arcane Shield.

[PPS_Mod:Polar_Bear]

Your Stormblades were dying to blast damage?

Your roomie's got some hot dice, then, since you need 8's to do it. No, it's not unheard of, but really, nothing that should be happening "really quickly" by any stretch. Plus, you say you're spread out. Remember, they just need to be within CMD-in-inches of the unit leader to be in formation. That's a very, very large area to spread out in for 6 guys. If you add in the UA, that's even a bigger area (10" to be exact) for only 8 guys. If your enemy's mortar is getting more than 2, maximum, then you're still a bit clumped up. And even with hitting 2, he MAY kill 1, per turn with each mortar (of course, this is assuming they actually hit you, being spread out as you are and as inaccurate as the mortar is at hitting directly, needing a 10 to hit a SB directly). All of that's without adding in Arcane Shield, which I always find a way to put onto my Stormblades. ARM 18 vs everything is just nice. That'll put those Mortars needing an 11 to kill your guys. Take that, blast damage!

As for Long Gunners being maybe a bit expensive, I don't really think they are, but that's me. But even at their current cost, they're some of the best ranged troops in the game. They're the shooting-infantry unit that every other shooting-infantry unit is compared to. 14" range with the two shots, CRA and access to Snipe is just crazy. Adding in the UA for the Covering Fire, being able to put out a 5" template of "your light infantry can't go here" for your enemy is just fantastic board-control via area denial. You can basically make your own advancing melee troops immune to being charged by anything but opponent heavies by moving your guys, then placing the template in front of, or even on top of them. Since they already moved, they aren't affected by the template's placement or are damaged by it. Then, next turn, it'll be gone (removed in the maintenance phase) before they activate and move, so they won't be hurt by it then, either.

Add those two together, and you've got a Stormblade unit that's covered from enemy charges (which, due to their "slow" speed of 5 with no reach, can sometimes be a problem) due to the Covering Fire of your Long Gunners, and protected from a good bit of enemy shooting from the Arcane Shield.

PB

[mooseyjoe]

I was using signs n portents, and i only got 3 between 2 mortars. Th rest died to field guns.

[Techcasualty]

I feel fully qualified to answer this post as you named my two favorite infantry teams and the things I love to dodge (mortars)

first of all...what caster are we talking? Pretty much all our infantry casters have a way to give the almighty middle finger to range, especially inaccurate range. As someone else said you should be spread out to the point where they are catching maybe 2 per shot.

Next up long gunners... they are CHEEAAAP for what they do. If you are questioning their price realize trenchers are 11 points for the same size and can only put out 1 shot at 10".


Accept that your infantry are going to die, there's sadly no way around that. Just be ready to bish slap what did it immediately afterwards.

[Rakielis]

i was using epic haley, thorn, storm blades, thunderhead, hunter, eiryss, b13, hunter, journeyman, squire, long gunners (full+ua)

[Malaziel]

Your army should have no problem with blast damage; Epic haley casts deceleration, put arcane shield on long gunners. Now an extreme roll is necessary to take out even a single model with blast damage.

Try it out and see what's happening on the table.
Since i play Epic Haley a lot, i can tell you from experience he will be forced to enter your killzone :)
My suggestion for EHaley army is to forgo thorn, 2pts over lancer is a big deal, and instead upgrade Hunter to Defender. Having a gun that can reliably go for casterkill instead of pinging with pow8 is huge. Also, you could use some extra melee, and his hammer provides that. Long gunners UA also is not crucial when utilising army around epic haley, threat of her feat is suppresing much more than pow 10 hits. :)

[Rakielis]

i dont have a lancer or a defender at this point in time :( i fielded almost everything i own :(

[TsavongLah]

i dont have a lancer or a defender at this point in time :( i fielded almost everything i own :(

Proxy. It sounds like you're mostly playing with a buddy at home; cut out a paper circle the size of a medium/large base, tape a penny to the bottom, and write "Defender" on the top. Alternatively, if you have an extra 'jack, use that and just call it a Defender. I'm sure your friend won't mind either way. :)

[Techcasualty]

Ok time for me to step in again!


i was using epic haley, thorn, storm blades, thunderhead, hunter, eiryss, b13, hunter, journeyman, squire, long gunners (full+ua)

First of all...excellent caster choice

Personally, unlike the other poster, I think thorn is awesome with haley. his little 3 inch move with a disruption spear is nice. Don't worry about getting a defender. You are running a thunderhead.

Cast deceleration ever turn there is something that could potentially shoot you. That makes most of your army something like 12s to hit. Even with the boost and throw away that is unlikely at best. You are running thorn, thunderhead, and the hunter on haley? Seems a bit heavy imo. I have trouble finding the focus to throw around once my jacks get into the muck and I just run an ironclad and thorn.

Spread out, cast deceleration, think about cutting haley down to 2jacks imo. AS the softies until your stormblades get in the muck.

The UA on the long gunners is a bit unnecessary imo. I hope you are not taking it over...say the stormblades ua. Stormblades UA is far superior to the long gunners.

That's the bulk of your army. Eiryss and b13 run around and do their own thing, no saving them.

[isawatsuke]

So I'd like to hear some thoughts on mkII infantry. I'm fairly new to miniatures and warmachine (started playing a few months back but don't get to play very often).

I own some stormblades and long gunners and that is about it for infantry right now. The long gunners feel a big expensive to me but are still very powerful.

The problem I tend to have with stormblades is that they tend to get torn apart by my roommates khador mortars really quickly. Last night, only a single one even managed to make it to the enemy (and they were spread out).

How the hell can I deal with mortars?

Im my experience your never going to really kill the mortars because they usually fire from the opponents deployment zone so just focus on the objective, which usually revolves around the center line so at most the mortar gets 4 turns of shooting. It really cant hurt you that much then. Removing the 2 hunters could get you a unit of stormlances so that with arcane shield up on the stormblades you have a front line of arm 18 arm 17 models. With decel thats arm 20 and arm 19 against ranged. this way mortars need a minimum of 12 to damage your guys. Not uncommon with signs but you shouldnt get wiped out. Downgrading the thorn to a lancer can thengive u Rhupert for additional redudunancy. Try and keep your ranged units behind at maximum ranged attack so they dont get deviated on. For outright destroying the mortars without over extending yourselve the only option i can think of that would be reliable is dominating a ranged khador jack.

The best option is really to ignore them as you dont want to spend too many resources dealing with a 3 pc unit in your opponents deployment zone.

[TsavongLah]

You are running thorn, thunderhead, and the hunter on haley? Seems a bit heavy imo. I have trouble finding the focus to throw around once my jacks get into the muck and I just run an ironclad and thorn.

Really? eHaley has 8 focus, so even if all three of those 'jacks are still alive and in the thick of things she can run them at full capacity. Especially given that the Hunter only ever needs one, and the Thunderhead can make by with one as well depending on what you're using him for. Dropping one seems like a bad idea, especially since the Thunderhead doesn't really want to be the main melee 'jack and would rather be traipsing around toasting infantry models. You almost have to have the combination of Thorn/T-Head if you want to present a decent melee front, which is pretty important when playing Khador.

Anyway, I agree that the LG UA isn't necessary. I'd drop him for Arlan, or maybe figure out a way to get another point in and buy the SB UA for 3.

[isawatsuke]

Really? eHaley has 8 focus, so even if all three of those 'jacks are still alive and in the thick of things she can run them at full capacity. Dropping one seems like a bad idea, especially since the Thunderhead doesn't really want to be the main melee 'jack and would rather be traipsing around toasting infantry models.

Ehaley does have 8 focus. But also has one of the better spell lists in the game so she ends up casting her spells and not powering up jacks.

[Dino-Czar]

But the jacks he has are pretty focus independent. On anti-infantry duty the T-head needs none, on anti-jack duty the Hunter needs 1 and Thorn needs 1 to run into position. You can feed them more if you want more out of them, but they don't need focus the way some jacks do.

[Rakielis]

i had the hunter on j-man

[mooseyjoe]

The biggest problem you had this game wasn't your infantry imho, it was bringing thunderhead and then thorn into behemoth's kill zone.

[CT GAMER]

The biggest problem you had this game wasn't your infantry imho, it was bringing thunderhead and then thorn into behemoth's kill zone.



Ehaley should be playing with the Behemoth like it was a rag doll: Telekinesis it back and turn it around so it is facing with no-cygnar models in it's front arc thus it can't charge anything next turn when it activates facing the wrong way...

Telekinesis it so that it's back arc is facing a soon to be activated T-head and it is lined up to be slammed by him into his own troops...

while this is going on keep shooting and disrupting it...

rinse and repeat...

[Peregrine]

The biggest problem you had this game wasn't your infantry imho, it was bringing thunderhead and then thorn into behemoth's kill zone.

Yeah, Big-B is pretty bad...you should leave him alone. With just the models you have in your list right there, I would go with rotating the AS as needed and casting Deflection when you fear getting shot at.

Khador jacks are a bit expensive, you you probably won't be seeing more than 2 or 3 out there with most of the Khador casters. This means that Thorn can be used to Arc Node an anti-jack spell at one of the jacks and then tagging another with his spear. The Hunter I've found to be able to keep a single jack out of it for a good portion of the fight providing you hit the right columns. If not a single volley of Long Gunner shots takes care of that problem.

T-Head does his toasting up there in the mix with the Stormblades. Get up there and roast something and then let the Stormblades charge in and clean up. Eiryss and the B13 should be able to take care of themselves so long as you don't run them at the enemy.

[Dino-Czar]

Ehaley should be playing with the Behemoth like it was a rag doll: Telekinesis it back and turn it around so it is facing with no-cygnar models in it's front arc thus it can't charge anything next turn when it activates facing the wrong way...

Telekinesis it so that it's back arc is facing a soon to be activated T-head and it is lined up to be slammed by him into his own troops...

while this is going on keep shooting and disrupting it...

rinse and repeat...

Dominate Big-B. Big-B shoots bombard at mortars. I don't know TK is even nessisary.

[Aries37]

Dominate doesn't work on character jacks.

[Dino-Czar]

My bad. Cards not at hand.