what to do? army build....

[Bald Menite]

Hello all, just lost all 3 games in a turney. Sucks but that is life. 1st person I was against is just a real good player and kenw RoS backkward and forward. 2nd player used Circle, man I hate Hords and there fury machine. 3rd player was the most fun game and my dice failed and his did not.

So on Tues I have a game, 25 points, and even though I average .600+ on pickup games looking for thoughts on 2 lists.

Kaelyssa (7 wj)
Dawnguard Scyir. 2
Houseguard Halberdiers + ua 9
Dawnguard Invictors(6) + ua 8
Hydra. 9
Griffon. 4

Total. 35

OR

Adepts Rahn (6 wj)
House Shyeel Magister. 2
Houseguard Halberdiers + ua 9
Dawnguard Invictors(6) + ua 8
Phoenix. 10

Total. 35

What do y'll think? I also have HG Rifeman + ua, Stormfall, Ghost Snipers, Nayl, and Arcanist. There are many Khador and Cygnar so with jack lines this my idea.

Thank you

[Philoclass]

Both lists work, I think but I have to tell you that I hate the hydra. I think its over pointed for what it is, the only real benefit it has over a manticore is the ability to have more focus on it to shoot a longer range high powered shot. Ya pow 15 shot is good, but with a full squad of invictors every 2 that combine attack gives you pow 14 (so like 6 pow 14's). I mean ya it has some focus efficiency, but lets face it when jacks start to get damaged they lose alot umph. I personally like the manticore more, power 12 gun with 3 rof, cover fire, it can up its melee strength by 3, and has a combo attack for high damage.

So for the first list I'd change the hydra to a manticore and get an arcanist for the one point difference. The Scyir is ok in my book but I think we do have some better models in our selection too. In saying that though you have a griffon in the list in which he pairs with well. A thought might be to get him to marshal the griffion so they can charge through ur lines. With an acanist you can allocate 1 focus to the griffon and activate its +2 inch move ability and make it have a 13inch charge threat behind your lines. I do like casters controling jacks but this is something to think about.

I just noticed this but both your lists are more like 25 points, which is what I think you ment instead of totaling 35. Your Rahn list has 2 more points to use in a 25 pt. Personally I dont like the Rahn list his feat turn isnt going to do much for you with just him and the magister (not that his feat is great anyway). You have 1 arc node which isnt bad for us at 25 points, but I think Rahn does better in big games with multiple arc nodes. I am also not crazy about rahn to begin with, yes he has 8 focus but his spells cost alot (which is why peeps take him). Well I hope this helps out a little. Good luck

[magi]

You need to pick up Ravyn. Seriously. Her feat and abilities fit your available models quite well.

Anywho, I'm not a big fan of your lists. I'm just not sure you really need the Invictors at 25 pts - the Halberdiers should fit your melee needs, so you really just need shooting. The Houseguard riflemen would fit this if you really need a bunch of shooting, but I don't think you need an extra unit for it, as your jacks, Warcaster, and solos fit that bill.

I'd go with something like:

Kaelyssa (+7)
Hydra (9)
Manticore (8)
Houseguard Halberdiers w/ UA (9)
Stormfall Archers (5)
Arcanist (1)

(or you can add two Ghost Snipers and another Arcanist in place of the Stormfall if you expect to see more solos or high arm units)

Or, if you still wanted to include the shooting skills of the Dawnguard:

Kaelyssa (+7)
Hydra (9)
Manticore (8)
Dawnguard Invictors 10 w/ UA (12)
Ghost Sniper (2)
Arcanist (1)

A third option would be:

Kaelyssa (+7)
Manticore (8)
Dawnguard Invictors 10 w/ UA (12)
Dawnguard Scyir (2)
Griffon (4)
Stormfall Archers (5)
Arcanist (1)

[megatron0]

(not that his feat is great anyway)


Really? 2 units of battle mages and rahns feat are game winning

[isawatsuke]

i dont like rahn so i can only comment on kayleesa.

First off i second the manticore for hydra change. Hydras are ok for what they are but i find that ret has lots of things to deal damage at range and i cant get the pow 25 from the manticore elsewere. Second i reccomend taking out the scycir i dont think he really does much. So for your 3 points id rather get eiryss or a mage hunter assassin and arcanist. Ghost sniper would probably work too.

[megatron0]

take a hydra... three words grab and smash

[PPS_Jen]

Hydra + Phantom Hunter = dead enemy caster.

I love this 'jack. My opponents have learned to give my Hydras respect when I field them. When I run Kaelyssa, they know that they're either going to get shot in the face with a Hydra or my caster.

Halberdiers are a fantastic delivery system for any shooting unit Ret can put on the board. Shield wall, ranked attack, set defense... these guys have earned their points just about every game I've fielded them. Using Halberdiers to deliver Invictors is fun and hilarious. Gotta watch out for things like Chain Lightning if you have the Invictors close to the 'berds, but there is not much making it through that part of your army.

I've run something like this before:
Kaelyssa
-Hydra
Invictors (10)
-UA
Halberdiers (10)
Ghost Sniper x2

In any event, play the stuff you want to play. And have fun. :)

[hausdorff space]

Adepts Rahn (6 wj)
House Shyeel Magister. 2
Houseguard Halberdiers + ua 9
Dawnguard Invictors(6) + ua 8
Phoenix. 10 This list is 22pts.
Do you have any other jacks?
Or another Magister?

When I run Rahn at 25pts I start with two Magisters. Then decide if I'm going mage heavy of not.
- Mage heavy involves atleast one unit of HSBMs, and some heavies. And Not involves One main line unit, and then supporting units or Jacks.

While I fully advocate the use of a Phoenix with Rahn, I'm often more tempted in line unit heavy lists to take a Chimera first - it's smaller and quicker, so can get into place easier... and is seen as less of a threat.

I don't know what your local meta is like, but I'd honestly be tempted to drop the Halberdiers for to max out the unit of invictors (ranged and melee attack), and take a Griffon for flank (assuming a Chimera over Phoenix).


Off the top of my head I'd perhaps run something like this:

Adeptis Rahn Shyeel
- Chimera
Dawnguard Invictors (Leader and 9 Grunts)
- Griffon
- Dawnguard Invictor Officer & Standard
Arcanist
Ghost Sniper
Ghost Sniper
House Shyeel Magister
House Shyeel Magister
Though I think the stormfall (in place of a few solos) might be a fun/better move.

The idea being you can hold of the enemy quite well with polarity shield on the Invictors and some well placed push/pull, slam and placement effects. Which will hopefully allow you to get some good shooting in before you're forced to engage. The Chimera gives a good mobile arcnode, which given the side of the game, you should hopefully be able to get up the side of the enemy (a place from which force hammer on enemy jacks screws the enemy badly); and the Griffon (with arcanist focus) can move at huge speed to engage (to stall or set up flank) or intercept (powerful charge).

[Houston]

I have to admit, I was surprised by the lack of House Scheel Battle Mage units in your Rahn list. On his feat turn I typically get at least 2 knockdowns per unit of battle mages. They are very survivable (hello ranged defense boost and blast immunity) and they are very good for the tactical advantages they can provide your army. Their Beatback is also key in disengaging enemy models from melee that you don't want to see engaging certain units. Example: My opponents will sometimes run up a heavy hitting guy next to Eiryss just to keep her engaged and unable to shoot their warcaster next turn. I can use the Mittens to push/pull them out of position and move Eiryss in for the kill assist without worry.

If you like running Rahn, throw a unit or 2 of them into your army and see what happens.

[serrasin]

Im looking at something like this at 25. It should be a good mix of shooting, heavy hitting melee, and a couple of tricks to keep my opponent busy.

[Bald Menite]

First, wow sorry I must of been more tired than I thought when I was adding up the lists.

Second, thank you all for the input... I just don't have even a squad of Shyeel Mages, nor a Maticore yet and I really try to only play what I have painted. Basically even though miss added all that I have listed is what I currently have, I do plan to get more, and I guess will have to wait till I pay bills (I owe, I owe, so off to work I go....).

Third, I do like the idea of a light jack with a node, forgot about that.
Tomorrow are the games I will let you know how it went.... have a good night.