Centurion: a new lease on life vs. hordes?

[Dais]

now that the hordes field test has been shown ive been re-examining cygnar's options and in the context of warmachine vs. hordes the centurion seems a great deal more appealing.
the cent's high arm, high health, and charge immunity seems to capitalize on warbeasts' weakness of lower pow and despite it's low speed the centurion is likely to charge most warbeasts without reach rather than be walked up to and attacked.
the drawbacks of the centurion (lower pow and mat) are offset by the lower arm and health of a warbeast as well as it's own critical sustained attack.
i plan on testing this out a bit but, without doing the math on it, the centurion may be quite effective vs. hordes here some of our other staples might be overkill on damage and easier to neutralize.
i'm hoping this wort turn into a flame about the cost of the jack or how it compares to other melee heavies because those others will retain their utility, but i think the cent may have a nice niche and i wanted to discuss it.

[phreaker187]

The move 4", make yourself unchargeable, repeat, repeat, for the amount of points you spend there are so many more options. Ironclad, Rowdy, Stormclad all have the advantage any way you slice it.

All four jacks will send a beast back to it's box, I prefer being more agile and being able to hit like a ton of bricks.

You can no longer cut for fury anymore in hordes so charge far, hit hard and, gg.

[admanb]

You can no longer cut for fury anymore in hordes so charge far, hit hard and, gg.

Yeeees you can.

[Dino-Czar]

People called the Cent dead long before it was warranted.

It is a great jack with certain casters, less good with others. The shock that it wasn't a auto-include super-jack is what earned it such a bad name. There will be a time when it is loved again, and we will all wonder just what the problem was.

[Defenstrator]

I can't quite see that. At 8 points yes, but at 9 he's always going to be one of those jacks that you only take with certain casters.

[phreaker187]

Yeeees you can.


Oh really? I was told in MK2 that you can't. My bad.

[LemmingStampede]

The section on cutting for fury and reaving from dead beasts was accidentally left out at first. PP has posted the rules for it now, but it's an easy mistake to make.

The Centurion does get an advantage against Hordes, purely based on the fact that it is ARM 21. A lot of warbeasts rely on less pure strength of a single weapon, and more on having lots of attacks with slightly lower pow, like the warpwolf. With the high ARM of the Centurion, it becomes incredibly hard for those beasts to take him out because that extra ARM is shaving off more damage then it would against Mulg or a Carnivean who just have one big weapon to crush you with.

I still think the Centurion will be a jack you use with certain casters, but honestly I feel that way about all the jacks. Everyone has their heavy which fits best.

[whats82]

I haven't had a list where I wish had a centurion compare to other heavies unfortunately.

[whitekong]

Centurion is a good jack, he can take a beating like no other cygnar jack can. Sometimes all you need us a jack that is going to hang around for a while, and be a threat to a large area of the board.

[Shinobiwolf1980]

I bought my Centurion before I knew about the changes in Mk.II and so, I frequently field it with my Ironclad. People are terrified of my Ironclad for some reason or perhaps they just don't think they can hurt the Centurion fast enough. Whatever the reason, the Centurion is still intimidating. It still hits like freight train with that spear and at 21 ARM it can take a beating.

Now I'm the first to jump on the too expensive bandwagon and praying they do something about the shield, which no longer locks systems down. But it's not the worst Jack and if you've got enough points to take one and you don't have anything better (like me), then why not take it?

[elwoodblues6389]

The Centurion is and will always be one of my favorite Jacks. It fits its roll very well and is one tough hunk of machinery.

[Arkady]

The Centurion is and will always be one of my favorite Jacks. It fits its roll very well and is one tough hunk of machinery.

What role is that? Easily ignored slow-poke? It only fulfills its role if something can specifically buff its movement.

[knight_actual]

What role is that? Easily ignored slow-poke? It only fulfills its role if something can specifically buff its movement.


threat 9" against things that cannot charge it is not insignificant.

gold standard: ironfangs are threat 8" when it can't charge - the centurion out-threats ironfangs.

the role is to mess up enemy army from being able to engage normally.

and to liberally apply pow 18 spear :)

[Reemule]

I really enjoy the Centurion with our speed boosting casters.

Its still the toughest thing we have to field. Well worth the points.

[elwoodblues6389]

What role is that? Easily ignored slow-poke? It only fulfills its role if something can specifically buff its movement.

Considering it runs for eight it isnt that slow. a whole two less inches is not going to set you back that much at all if any. I never have had a problem with it.

[Dino-Czar]

threat 9" against things that cannot charge it is not insignificant.

gold standard: ironfangs are threat 8" when it can't charge - the centurion out-threats ironfangs.

the role is to mess up enemy army from being able to engage normally.

and to liberally apply pow 18 spear :)

This is a good point right here. It bears repeating over and over. Also of note is how that 6" you-shall-not-pass bubble can protect your shooting corp (or Sword Knights if you swing that way).

Will spd 4 hurt in scenarios? Maybe. We have no way to know at this time. What I do know is that it works just fine in "kill the enemy boss" style casual play and can be both fast and a PITA with the right casters.

[Tamwulf]

The 9 point Centurion ensures that people will be taking different warjacks. I really, really hate to compare MK II to MK I, but here we go.

In MK I, you would see every Cygnar list with a Centurion in it, despite it's low SPD and MAT. Every Cygnar player I ever talked to started every list with JWC, Centurion (and later added Squire), then selected a Warcaster, then selected units, and finally other warjacks.

I won't debate the point cost of the Centurion. Too much or too little is immaterial to me. What is important is that the point cost of the Centurion makes people actually consider taking different warjacks. That's a win in my book.

[Mutton]

The 9 point Centurion ensures that people will be taking different warjacks. I really, really hate to compare MK II to MK I, but here we go.

In MK I, you would see every Cygnar list with a Centurion in it, despite it's low SPD and MAT. Every Cygnar player I ever talked to started every list with JWC, Centurion (and later added Squire), then selected a Warcaster, then selected units, and finally other warjacks.

I won't debate the point cost of the Centurion. Too much or too little is immaterial to me. What is important is that the point cost of the Centurion makes people actually consider taking different warjacks. That's a win in my book.

That's a bit illogical; might as well say that the Trencher Cannon being worthless for its points is a good thing then. Did we have a problem of the Cent being undercosted in mk1? Yes. Should that affect it's mk2 pricing, which is basically a new game? No.

[Shinobiwolf1980]

(I'm basically repeating Mutton, so might as well read the next post)
That kind of argument is a little weird if you ask me. You could use that justification to make anything sound really good.

For example:
It's good that the Sentinel is a really average jack. Because it means that we won't see too many of them on the field.

or:
It's good that Kossite Woodsmen don't appear to do anything except die. Because I wouldn't want to see them on every battlefield.

You go on to say that you won't argue the points cost, but use it as evidence for your argument. You don't even seem to consider the issue that maybe almost no one will take it anymore.

People are always going to take whatever is good value. The Centurion needed to be reduced in power, but for its cost its lost too much. On the other hand, hope you like seeing the B13 and Ironclads.

[tophalion]

@ Tamwulf

That was also back when warjacks were expensive, got disabled after 3 systems, a slammed melee jack was basically locked down, the Hammersmith stole the hammers from Chargers with chain attack push, zealots were completely over the top, Bokurs were among the best beat stick light jacks, and Drakhuns were flying though the air.

Back then, the Centurion was our jack that could consistently hold the line against things up to it's point cost. Nothing is more disheartening than seeing something like the Stormclad getting ripped apart by troops like Zealots and McThralls or being locked down by Seneschals or bone chickens. It was undeniably a steal at 113 with most people willing to buy it at an SC's price, but this was also under the same system where the charger was one MK1 point, not MK2 point, cheaper than the Lancer.

The MK2 Cent isn't the MK1 Cent. The biggest change is the Polarity shield is a special action which means it has less time to get into position and you can't use it the turn you want to beat something down. Of secondary note, since the feature was useless against Hordes, is the loss of Electro-Lock.

It does a higher MAT so it's not so useless at taking out more common targets, but this where you start to compare it to others in the fleet. The IC chassis now hits the sweet spot of elite MAT 7. In addition, the POW+Str of other Cygnar heavy off-hand weapons, save the Defender, have increased significantly in comparison. The IC and SC now hit at POW 14, the HS at a beefy POW 17, and the Thead Pow 16 compared to the Cent's POW 13 shieldbash. It increased from Pow 12, but it's also gotten left behind.

In short, the Cent has gotten weaker overall while the others have gotten stronger making it dramatically less of an auto-include, moreso than the 9 pt cost imho.

[captainspud]

The Cent has performed very well for me throughout my Mk.II testing. You're all welcome to toss yours in the dustbin, but mine will continue to hit the board for the foreseeable future.

[tophalion]

Not tossing my two away, especially not after I went through that effort to give em actual spears. They are too sexy looking just to toss. Just debating that even at 8pts, in his current form, the Cent is far from an auto-include.

[Shinobiwolf1980]

I think 8 points would actually be a fair point cost for the Centurion. Because it does hit hard and if you do crit, you get automatic hits.

[phreaker187]

I really enjoy the Centurion with our speed boosting casters.

Its still the toughest thing we have to field. Well worth the points.


I think with either Nemo you'd be in good shape, that SPD 4 is really tough to deal with.

Same thing goes with the hammersmith though low SPD, no reach, but in armies that can buff it's speed it's a killing machine.

[ArmoryDave]

I've never thought the Centurion was out in the first place, so seeing how he can be even more advantageous against Hordes is another boon to an already great warjack.

[Arkady]

The only problem with the Centurion is that he has to surrender all offense and mobility to activate the shield. He's only a point too expensive, no big deal.

[69Lazarus]

I think as long as you have a selection of Casters that make a Jack (unit or whatever) "worth it's points" it is a successfull model. If it is always worth it's points in becomes more of an autoinclude.

Any caster that helps with movement makes the Cent good and we have several. I regularly use him with either version of Haley and I do look forward to stuffing ARM 24 at their beasts.


Lazarus.

[Ysthrall]

I wouldn't use the Cen if I was playing a manouvering army (Kraye, although full tilt...) or an assaulting army (EStryker), but for the standard tactic of "Sit back here and shoot you as you come", I still think he's good. Nemos, Haleys, whatever.

That's not a roadblock, thats a motorway roundabout. Go around. Way around. :p

[knight_actual]

Even in a manuver army, the centurion can still contribute, because it modifies the opposing army's threat range.

[knight_actual]

I've been playing with the centurion a little more these past couple of weeks - mostly under darius. I am coming to the conclusion that this model is worth it's 9 points squarely.

Points of notice:

I have yet to cast full throttle with Darius - at 35, his battle group contains 2 ironclads and the centurion. The presence of so many knockdown powers- boostable mean that boosted to hits has not been an issue. Even when I do start stabbing without KD assist - most heavies at def12... I just roll. 72% is acceptable.

Arm 21, and either fortify, or arc shield is a whole lot more effective than arm 18.

Reach is a very big deal.

Jack hammer means that when the centurion only needs to walk+ jab, I could instead walk, polarity shield, then Darius makes him jab.

I think he IS worth the 9 points even in direct comparison with the Ol'rowdy b/c the polarity shield, and reach gives him functions that cannot be fulfilled by Ol'rowdy.

[Golgothas]

Hmm? What's this? People saying the Centurion is NOT worth its high point cost?

My Sword Knights would beg to differ.

And so would Kraye.

Also, hasn't anyone realized how envious Khador Jacks are when they come face to face with an ARM 24 Centurion? (Centurion loves Arcane shield)

[Spooker]

I guess we really like all of our heavies now!

Remember when the Hammersmith and Stormclad were jokes?
Now we love all of our heavy jacks - and would use all in any of the games.
So did "PP" do a good job or what?

Now we have not seen the Cyclone yet - So I might be a bit premature.


Good discussion.

[Mutton]

Only heavy that isn't worth it's points is the Centurion. It's a point over, but can be useful if you can buff it's movement. It's still not that good, and I'd rather take most any other heavy over it, but you can make it work. Still not going to be in tourny lists.

[withershadow]

Hmm? What's this? People saying the Centurion is NOT worth its high point cost?

My Sword Knights would beg to differ.

And so would Kraye.
Lol, what is that, like a Cygnar's "greatest" hits list? :P

I think the Cent would be worth 9 points if he just gave up initial attacks to activate polarity field, but as it stands he's absolutely definitely worth 8, so being a little top-heavy is not a terrible thing.

[69Lazarus]

Still not going to be in tourny lists.

That's a pretty broad statement.....Considering I've already seen it in several lists that played in tournaments in the last couple of months....

[Dark Fledgling]

The main disadvantage of the Centurion is that it is slow and needs the crit or some other boost to MAT to truely shine (all other heavies but the hammersmith are 7's or 8's). Conversely the advantage it has is the high armor for more survivability and the polarity shield to help secure a cygnar charge hits first.

Lets see which of our casters take fix his disadvantages and capitalize on his advantages! (this will be long)


Stryker: The addition of another Arcane shield means you can afford to put one on your cent. Armor 24 is crazy high, and on feat turn Armor 29? Also earthquake can insure he hits without needing a crit so he can buy more attacks.

eStryker: Positive charge makes him MAT 8 POW 20. Warjack bond gives him a potential 4 dice to hit on his first attack. Crit sustain anyone? Also his reach gives him a really great threat with eStrykers feat.

Haley: Ok, so TB makes polarity shield useless. But -2 Def and the second Arcane shield make him a force to be reckoned with. Also the blitz attack takes advantage of the crit sustain for an auto hit.

eHaley: Telekinesis and Temporal Acceleration. Nuff said.

Caine / eCaine: OK so niether really helps out the cent... But he probably wasnt gonna take a heavy jack anyway.

Nemo: 5 focus and locomotion with disruption field anyone?

eNemo: need I even get into it? You can have a whole front line of no charging, not to mention energizer for speed, and fail safe for super survivability. Oh, and the feat turn.

Darius: He's darius, the cent is a jack.

Siege: No much here, so probably wont make it in over that defender.

Kraye: Full tilt gives an 8" move then shield, or an 11" threat charge with reach on the feat turn, not to mention he counts as heavy Cav and has a higher STR then most of our other heavies for impact attacks.

So, of 11 casters, 3 do not have some way of either overcoming the cents low speed or boosting its survivability. Many of the bonus's that our casters give may work on all of our jacks, but the centurion gets better effect from some bonus's then others.

Being able to get 4 dice on the first attack for a crit against high defense casters with eStryker is a prime example.

Does this mean its the best jack out there? no, but it does it mean it will still certainly see the table and continue to be put into lists? most definitely.

But to finally answer the OP's question, yes. The higher defense in hordes gives greater value to the Centurions crit sustain, its Higher armor benefits it because of hordes general lower power, and the polarity shield helps prevent those extremely maneuverable and fast beasts from hitting your line first.

-DF

[Mutton]

Main issue here is that, yes, these 'casters can help the Cent. But let's face it, those buffs are generally far, far better off on say, a Stormclad or Rowdy or Ironclad or Hammersmith etc etc.

[Golgothas]

Lol, what is that, like a Cygnar's "greatest" hits list? :P

I think the Cent would be worth 9 points if he just gave up initial attacks to activate polarity field, but as it stands he's absolutely definitely worth 8, so being a little top-heavy is not a terrible thing.

Greatest hits with what I put on the table.

As for those who complain that the centurion is slow... He advances 8 inches when he's marshalled by Sword Knights.

Now. Maybe I'm wrong, but, being able to advance 8 inches thanks to Pronto, and still activate the magno-shield or to advance 4 first then charge 7 and use the pseudo focus to either roll 3d6 on the attack roll OR buy an extra attack... Is pretty damn awesome.

[Mutton]

Oh lord, not this again. The math, the statistics, the play experience, it's all been drawn out of show why that isn't a good choice. Please, go to the old boards and look at it before you start the argument all over again.

[halffiend]

Stop bashing our Centy. I still like it, but currently using stormclad because it was TOO EXPENSIVE for what it did in mki. Any caster who can buff its low speed (Nemos) or give a MAT boost (Darius). And its been said in this thread, its tough. Give it an ARM buff and it will hold its ground better than any other jack in our arsenal. Note that an Angelius' penatrating strike is an armor piercing POW 14, and one the most vicious attacks in the game. Against an arcane shielded Centurian its dice minus 1!!! That Angelius is probably going to regret its position soon.:D

[Golgothas]

Oh lord, not this again. The math, the statistics, the play experience, it's all been drawn out of show why that isn't a good choice. Please, go to the old boards and look at it before you start the argument all over again.

So you're saying that the positive play experience I've had (consistently positive) with the Mark II centurion (nevermind the simple math I did) show why it ISN'T a good choice?

You're weird.

[Mutton]

So you're saying that the positive play experience I've had (consistently positive) with the Mark II centurion (nevermind the simple math I did) show why it ISN'T a good choice?

You're weird.

*smacks head against desk repeatedly*
Stop... missing... the.... point
I'm glad you've been able to make good use of it. I've made good use of a TCC and Darius in mk2. Doesn't mean they are worth their points.

[GunMageinTraining]

It's not even the Centi, I have no problem with a Centi in quite a number of rolls. His shield is awsome for a counter-punch list.

SKs though... it's just a mistake to put a jack that expensive, and literally a Melee Heavy, onto a marshal. Even with an awesome drive. Nevermind that SKs themselves aren't incredible anymore.

If you have speed buffs outside of Pronto, go for it, or if you don't care and want the Darius brick, have fun.

[Golgothas]

It's not even the Centi, I have no problem with a Centi in quite a number of rolls. His shield is awsome for a counter-punch list.

SKs though... it's just a mistake to put a jack that expensive, and literally a Melee Heavy, onto a marshal. Even with an awesome drive. Nevermind that SKs themselves aren't incredible anymore.

If you have speed buffs outside of Pronto, go for it, or if you don't care and want the Darius brick, have fun.

Not incredible, huh. Well, that's a whole other debate, but all I will say in response to that is: it is very hard to put down a unit of ARM 19 Sword Knights (the inherent +2 arm from their ability plus Arcane shield).

I suppose incredible-ness is relative.


*smacks head against desk repeatedly*
Stop... missing... the.... point
I'm glad you've been able to make good use of it. I've made good use of a TCC and Darius in mk2. Doesn't mean they are worth their points.

*Grunts.* Points worth. Bleh. The moment I start obsessing over points cost instead of the model is the moment I stop having fun.

[halffiend]

It's not even the Centi, I have no problem with a Centi in quite a number of rolls. His shield is awsome for a counter-punch list.

SKs though... it's just a mistake to put a jack that expensive, and literally a Melee Heavy, onto a marshal. Even with an awesome drive. Nevermind that SKs themselves aren't incredible anymore.

If you have speed buffs outside of Pronto, go for it, or if you don't care and want the Darius brick, have fun.

I agree. Which may say something about the value of the SK UA more than anything. As far as I'm concerned the only 'jack worthy of marshalling is the stormclad to the stormblade UA and with Strangeways. I personally would skip the centy on casters who dont make him better. I'm looking at you Nemo and Darius, and maybe eStryker.

[knight_actual]

SKs are more durable than SBs, UA has awesome drive.

Stick the Stormclad on the SK ua with SB&arlan nearby, and this thing has 3 focus and threat 15" with 3 focus.

on the SK ua - lets say you're facing... any warjack - get 3 or 4 of them with flank on the jack, and chances are excellent that you'll take out it's primary weapon arm... or the cortex... or whatever you want really.

[mrhuettel]

isn't it just a matter of playing style? i've never been let down by a centurion at all - i field it with casters that can make it faster/ stronger/ tougher and usually with some sword knights to get the best of flank and the cents reach.
i'd not switch it for an ironclad or a stormclad unless the circumstances provide it. if you are in need of a tough jack with reach and a nice anti-charge ability, take it. if you need a beatstick to clean out m***** of infantry / lights / heavies - don't, there are better choices.
in short: i like the centurion.

[knight_actual]

isn't it just a matter of playing style? ...
in short: i like the centurion.

I like him too. Tho with so many choices - he's finally getting his share of rest in the box :)

[whatyoutalkinboutwillis]

Was goofing around with eNemo, 2 Cents, and SK's + others (fill in the blanks 35pts) and it seems to be pretty good so far.

[withershadow]

Greatest hits with what I put on the table.

As for those who complain that the centurion is slow... He advances 8 inches when he's marshalled by Sword Knights.

Now. Maybe I'm wrong, but, being able to advance 8 inches thanks to Pronto, and still activate the magno-shield or to advance 4 first then charge 7 and use the pseudo focus to either roll 3d6 on the attack roll OR buy an extra attack... Is pretty damn awesome.

I don't think the major issue is with the Centurion's abilities, but rather his cost.

Also, this is just IMO, but marshaling him to sword knights of all things is a pretty bonehead move. Sure, you get an extra 4", but you've now given up any hope of power attacks or making more than 1 swing in combat unless you also devote Strangeways to the task (which carries additional opportunity costs). I understand the desire to speed him up and actually get a good use of the currently mostly irrelevant Pronto (firefly may change that, we'll see), but crippling his offensive output to do so is the wrong way to go about it.

[tophalion]

I don't think the major issue is with the Centurion's abilities, but rather his cost.


No, I have to agree with the previous, it's more the abilities than the cost. Specifically the fact Polarity Shield is a special action which you can't even attack from.

It's like the Bellringer special action on the Rockram, except marginally more useful, but still a PITA. Trenchers to an extent have the same problem.

[WolfKahn]

dumb question: if the shield says you may not charge, does that mean you can still charge the jack but just do not benefit from the extra dice or can you not declare a charge? so basically you still get the spd bonus or not?

[Dino-Czar]

You cannot declare a charge against a Centurion that activated Polarity Field (if you started your activation in it's front arc).

[The_Buzzsaw]

I do love my centurion, I run him with eNemo, just the fact I have too use Locomotion for the first 2/3 turns, which is not too bad as I'm not casting much else. Still a super hard target too kill with AS.

Works with eHaley with TA as well as you can still shield up and move 6'.

[69Lazarus]

Works with eHaley with TA as well as you can still shield up and move 6'.

If you bond it to her you can move 6" +2" for TA & 2" for TK....so effectively 10" and still have the shield up.

[Soulblighter]

If the Centurion cost 8 points it would be used almost exclusively over Cygnar's other jacks again. 9 points was the sweet spot for its point cost. It removes the Centurion as a mainstay crutch and forces it into a niche role with certain casters.

[Mutton]

If the Centurion cost 8 points it would be used almost exclusively over Cygnar's other jacks again. 9 points was the sweet spot for its point cost. It removes the Centurion as a mainstay crutch and forces it into a niche role with certain casters.

I call shenanigans. Ironclads are cheaper, hence more useful. Hammersmiths kill hard targets better and have their beat back bounces, Stormclads kill everything better with their own source of focus, Rowdy can countercharge and is fairly focus friendly as well, the Thunderhead is an electric lawnmower, and the Defender is an artillery piece. It doesn't have a niche roll with certain 'casters right now; you CAN take it with certain 'casters, but it's not even the best choice with them!

[Shinobiwolf1980]

If the Centurion cost 8 points it would be used almost exclusively over Cygnar's other jacks again. 9 points was the sweet spot for its point cost. It removes the Centurion as a mainstay crutch and forces it into a niche role with certain casters.

I also agree with Mutton's analysis. But for different reasons. The Polarity shield requires an action and it is far too slow for your 9 points. Even at 8 points it wouldn't be an auto-include. It would be perfect for it for when you need something that can take a huge beating and dish it back.
As previously stated, I only take mine because I'm finding I need the second heavy to deal with the intense amounts of Khador I'm facing and I don't have another heavy to fill the role.
As soon as I get my Defender, I won't be taking that Centurion very often.
It just doesn't represent value for points in the current environment.

[Shawn]

The Centurion was my first jack after the battle box and I love him. I run him with Stryker, my favoritre caster atm and typically run him with a full unit of sword knights. Surprised my friend one day becuase he just plays menoth and hordes and had no idea bout jackmarshalling he was shocked when my jack marshal drove the Cent 4" and then had him move four more on his activation. What shocked him even more is that the jackmarshal orded Cent to charge into his Elephant type warbeast (Rhinadon I think) and then the sword knights charged in after him. I had 4 knights able to get withen the 2 inches and get thier extra damage die in adddition to the boosted roll for charging. Sliced the critter to pieces. My friend said can you do that? Can you really do that? He had to stop the game and look up the rules. Couldn't take my word for it.
Use stryker - earthquake, Boom! knock warbeast down. Charge with Cent and then with swordknights, dead warbeast, less fury for warlock. Win.

[Pydracor]

Wow, man, how far did you go back to find THIS thread? You should play Cryx with such a great skill in necromancy, letting something rise, that has been dead for over 1,5 years ;)
Seriously, there are quite a few newer Centurion-threads aout there.

[computertrucker]

Actually his necro fit the topic..how many times do u see people tell other people to use search? At least he did

[Sacredsouless]

Yep. Now we'll be getting on to who uses him best (Nemo's IMO). I also have to admit, seeing and old topic brought up makes me have a knee-jerk reaction of "OMG! NECRO! DIE!!!!". I just hope no one does something silly and quotes a person from 2009.

[Shawn]

Pyrcador,
I'm new to warmachine and didnt really check how old it was plus I like the centurion:) I figured, wrongly of course, that the thread was a recent post but you, me, and computertrucker updated it for a new generation,lol. Sacredsouless, If I can find a quote from 2009 I'll be happy to share it.:) Plus, if you either have have some tactical tips for use with the Centurion it would be most helpful or direct me to some useful threads it would be appreciated.

[DesertSpiral]

I have to admit i haven't really gone into the Cygnar forums for a while but on the wm faction page this thread caught my eye.

I think it is because mostly i have been having a similar discussion with a Cygnar freind of mine recently. He has this problem called gatormen with no real good rpospects for dealing with them as they are virtually immune to shooting and typically outclass cygnar in melee.

I put it to him that the Centurian would be a viable option in helping to mitigate or deal with the gator (or many of the tough hordes builds). Typically i think it would work really well out of Enemo who can go a long ways to mitigating its speed issues with energizer and it is tough enough to absorb a lot of gator men, especially with AS up on it. Just having the charge immunity is (i feel) a really good boon against a faction that otherwise for the most parts dictates all levles of the engagemnt back to you.

A centruion feels like it would be a good counter to a lot of hordes chicanery and i feel that in a combined Jack E Nemo approahc it really finds it place.

The other things it brings to the table also help out too. Mind you i'm coming from RET and all out jacks are quite expensive so 9 for a Centurion doesn't feel like such a bad investment for the returns it can generate against a large chunk of hordes factions.

DS

[AngraX]

I really like the cent looks. I even bought him before other heavy jacks because he looked cool (on the book at least, his actual model is kinda silly).

Unfortunately, as other people have pointed all, he is not super with every caster and I kinda play casters that works better with other jacks, specially @35.

Now I'm starting to play Kraye more and I'm fielding the centurion with him. I still have to play some more games to have a better grasp on how to work with him better. Although I love the idea of a pronto'ed centurion, every time I did it he didn't have the punch I needed because he was running with no focus :(.

I tried him once with eHaley, but by the time his shield would be put to use haley poped her feat so the ability was wasted. I regretted I didn't field a Stormclad instead.

I will try to put him on a eStriker list with SKs and see how it goes.

[computertrucker]

Full tilt with kraye, nice combo. And great blocker for ur shooty lights

[flameberge]

I found him to be pretty good with eHaley. The Jack Bond gives him +2" movement, making him pretty mobile. Also TK plus Temp. Acc. and first turn he can run out 12." Put AS on him and he can be annoying to deal with.

[Sacredsouless]

Sacredsouless, If I can find a quote from 2009 I'll be happy to share it.:) Plus, if you either have have some tactical tips for use with the Centurion it would be most helpful or direct me to some useful threads it would be appreciated.

I meant more of picking up an argument with what someone said back then. I've seen it happen many times in other forums, so I was just holding out for the PP forums and users to be better.

[Defenstrator]

It's been a while since the field test and my Centurion has certainly had his moments. He's still an 8 point jack that costs 9 though. The more I play the more clear that seems to be.

[Icepick28]

The Centurion fits many "roles" depending on the situation. Either he's my first line for either being a roadblock for the enemy army, to give more time for my army to get into a optimal position, or he's there to soak up charges and swing back in force.

[Blugger]

I actually noted how much fire the centurion could take against hordes and was very surprised by it

I run it with Kraye (imo, the best caster for the centurion for mitigating its horrible speed while still letting it shield and having a feat that synergizes well with crit sustained attack) alongside a hammersmith, though I don't think the pewter horseman has quite appreciated the irony of being a recon expert marshaling two of cygnar's least subtle jacks, and they all come into frequent contact with legion at my local meta. The hammersmith goes down to just about any dedicated melee beast, but the cent will always go for two turns of combat even though it only has a two armor advantage over its slammy brother.

I don't think this naturally high armor advantage over the generally low powered (just don't tell trolls or thaggy) hordes beasts warrants the cent's use in all lists, though. To me, he seems incredibly dependent on speed buffs and focus and should only be run with specific casters, though I'd only vouch for Kraye, the Nemos and eHaley as of now because Darius can't speed them up.

[computertrucker]

Crazy necroed thread is still going. Thanks alot Shawn.

[DesertSpiral]

Well it's interesting to see oppinions as they were after the FT and how a year or two in if they have differed, and whether or not experience in the field or even new releases has thrust previously marginal choices into spot light roles.

I dont think the centurion is ever going to be as main stream as mki but i think it certainly has its place and realising that can give some much needed staying power to an otherwise fragile faction.

[Shawn]

Gotcha Sacred Soul. No, worries. I thought It a funny comment after the few previous posts and couldn't help adding 2cents.

[Dan from Chicago]

I actually noted how much fire the centurion could take against hordes and was very surprised by it

I run it with Kraye (imo, the best caster for the centurion for mitigating its horrible speed while still letting it shield and having a feat that synergizes well with crit sustained attack) alongside a hammersmith, though I don't think the pewter horseman has quite appreciated the irony of being a recon expert marshaling two of cygnar's least subtle jacks, and they all come into frequent contact with legion at my local meta. The hammersmith goes down to just about any dedicated melee beast, but the cent will always go for two turns of combat even though it only has a two armor advantage over its slammy brother.

I don't think this naturally high armor advantage over the generally low powered (just don't tell trolls or thaggy) hordes beasts warrants the cent's use in all lists, though. To me, he seems incredibly dependent on speed buffs and focus and should only be run with specific casters, though I'd only vouch for Kraye, the Nemos and eHaley as of now because Darius can't speed them up.

Oh yes Darius can speed them up ... *Crane gets them farther upfield than TK and almost as far as Locomotion, AND Darius can boost all their attack rolls with Full Throttle.

I'd say Darius mitigates the Centurion's weaknesses just as much as any other Caster.

[Shawn]

Thant Makes a great deal of sense for what I use hm for Icepick I just happen to have sword knights tag along to swing back in force as well.

[Shawn]

Thant Makes a great deal of sense for what I use hm for Icepick I just happen to have sword knights tag along to swing back in force as well.

[Shawn]

My Comp has been acting quirky latley. I'm not happy about it. Sorry about the double post everyone. Also, anyone got any special moments facing up to the centurion and either winning or losing? I'd be real interested in seeing all the different combos everyone has tried. I only have pStryker, pHaley, and Constance right now.

[ForceM]

The Centurion does get an advantage against Hordes, purely based on the fact that it is ARM 21. A lot of warbeasts rely on less pure strength of a single weapon, and more on having lots of attacks with slightly lower pow, like the warpwolf. With the high ARM of the Centurion, it becomes incredibly hard for those beasts to take him out because that extra ARM is shaving off more damage then it would against Mulg or a Carnivean who just have one big weapon to crush you with.

Well with eKaya Warpwolves hit with 19 Force twice and once for 18, and thats only the initial attacks. That will wreck 21 armor reliably, but with additional arcane shield its quite hard for anything to damage it.

[computertrucker]

Hey Shawn I know how to move that Centurion downfield...How about turning it into a 2 handed thrown fireball! Ya by my castigator! LOL (sorry all inside thing)

[Shawn]

Cent will wreck the castigator. 'Nuff said.

[Dais]

Wow, I think this thread is more lively now than when I made it. I look forward to giving the cent a little more table time after the plastic version comes out, I don't think I ever gave it a very thorough test.

[capamerica1980]

Everyone that is calling the Cent a slow poke that can be easily avoided isn't taking into consideration the fact that Cygnar has some caster that can push there jacks beyond... think about Pnemo... so the cent has a 4 movement + 3 on the charge with reach he can now touch things 9 inches away... spend some focus on him for locomotion and he now has an additional 1-3 inches so you can now have a potential 10 to 12 inch charge range with one spell... or you could just use him as an ati-charge lane clogger... all i know if you use him right he works