all men are created equal but your an elf.

[elvenlovemachine]

so how do you think retribution stacks up to the other factions? keeping in mind its still early days for our faction.

are they under/over powered do we have cause for complaint? etc.

[isawatsuke]

best solos in the game hands down. To have the best in one category means that were not that far from the power curve.

No truly broken warcaster tho.

[megatron0]

Fantastic, hands down the best faction in the game :D

[Garth]

I think retribution really profited from no field-testing.

Some of the models would never have survived the field test (MHA, MHSF for example).
As a whole the faction is balanced, but there are some really really good models, that remember me on good old MK I days.

And then there are the models no one will ever have to buy, because there is no reason to play them. (Dawnguad Scyr for example). This saves some money.

All in all I say that the Retribution is the only MK I army in MK II or that the retribution is the only faction, that didn't change from MK I in MK II...

[Mod_Redphantasm]

I think retribution really profited from no field-testing.

Some of model would never have survived the field test (MHA, MHSF for example).
As a whole the faction is balanced, but there are some really really good models, that remember me on good old MK I days.

And then there are the models no one will ever have to buy, because there is no reason to play them. (Dawnguad Scyr for example). This saves some money.

All in all I say that the Retribution is the only MK I army in MK II or that the retribution is the only faction, that didn't change from MK I in MK II...

Honestlym I don't see this. While you can say that "the players would have submitted feedback so this couldn't happen" there's far more that goes into the testing then the field test, especially when you consider a well known forum bias against powerful things that aren't yours.

Retribution stacks up very well against the main factions. They benefit from being designed all at once, and haveing a well balanced selection of models, even if they are weak in the jack and support department.

[Fool Injected]

Fantastic, hands down the best faction in the game :D

Why do you think that?

[Mr_Smigs]

And then there are the models no one will ever have to buy, because there is no reason to play them. (Dawnguad Scyr for example). This saves some money.

huh...

I own a Scyr... and it works very well in my dawnguard army...

while I find the Strike Force impressive, it isn't the be-all and end all of the game...



All in all I say that the Retribution is the only MK I army in MK II or that the retribution is the only faction, that didn't change from MK I in MK II...
except privateers...

in answer to the OP,
I think retribution is on par with the others, even without character warjacks or epics...
for the "new guy on the table" they provide a good handfull of options and different play styles, all of which have their distinct strengths and weaknesses...

[Mod_Redphantasm]

huh...

I own a Scyr... and it works very well in my dawnguard army...

while I find the Strike Force impressive, it isn't the be-all and end all of the game...



You clearlyl do not digest enough forums sir.

[knight_actual]

I'd say that ret is on par, maybe slightly under for the lack of significant access to the majority of utility mercs, WC attachements, character jacks and such like

[Mephaine]

Oh the beloveded elves are good and defo on par with most other factions. Can't complain as we do have a nice all-rounder force and our Myrmi's are unique enough to make you worry due to their amusing shenanigans. Overall I can't complain but I am still learning.

[RobD]

there are very good units that will murder an unsuspecting player (backlash jack, ghost sniperx2, eyriss, MHSF bye bye warcaster as early as turn 2) but its very easy to see that combo coming.

also ret are paper thin for the most part, if you see them you can pretty much kill the stuff ive just mentioned.

UA and weapon attachments wise i think we are good, all the UAs are fing awesome and souless are a nice utility piece (lets face it do MHSF need a weapon attachment that makes them Moar killy?)

[Lighten]

also ret are paper thin for the most part, if you see them you can pretty much kill the stuff ive just mentioned.

We've got a local player who's planning to start a Ret force. To my amazement, among the selling points, Ret are "durable" :)

Guess it all depends on your perspective. He's a pure Cryx player currently.

[Mod_Redphantasm]

We've got a local player who's planning to start a Ret force. To my amazement, among the selling points, Ret are "durable" :)

Guess it all depends on your perspective. He's a pure Cryx player currently.

As durable goes, I'd say we make it pretty good.

2 line units that are DEF 12 ARM 15/17
1 Cavalry unit and 1 solo that are DEF 12 ARM 17/19
2 Houseguard units that are 13/13
1 Houseguard unit that is 13/14 with shield wall and set DEF.

And then there's the warjacks. 12/16 on the lights and 12/18 on the heavies is ok, not tough but ok and well balanced. Now factor in the part that they can regen damage, and that you have to do at least 11 boxes to them before systems start getting hit. As durable goes, I'd say we're in there.

[isawatsuke]

lots of people disagree with me on this but i say we have the most durable warjacks in the game. Last game my manticore took 16 points of damage in one lucky shot and he lost 0 systems. If i had a juggernaut or something at best id have lost an arm at wort the legs.

[Demeritus]

I'd say that ret is on par, maybe slightly under for the lack of significant access to the majority of utility mercs, WC attachements, character jacks and such like

I'm kind of this opinion atm. We have weaknesses that stand out a bit more because we do not have as many options as other factions. This will be rectified as we get more stuff so it isn't a lasting problem.

This isn't to say we cannot win or are not competitive but it does show. I know what I'd like to see in the next book but whether or not we get it is another question.

As is I've done fine with Ret winning more than I lose so they can definitely compete but when it comes to top tier and the most competitive stuff other factions can bring, our lack of options becomes more apparent.

[Mr_Smigs]

lots of people disagree with me on this but i say we have the most durable warjacks in the game. Last game my manticore took 16 points of damage in one lucky shot and he lost 0 systems. If i had a juggernaut or something at best id have lost an arm at wort the legs.
this is kinda a big thing....

Retribution is the only faction that can accept a free strike without worry...

[PUFNSTUF]

lots of people disagree with me on this but i say we have the most durable warjacks in the game. Last game my manticore took 16 points of damage in one lucky shot and he lost 0 systems. If i had a juggernaut or something at best id have lost an arm at wort the legs.

so you find the additional protection of the shield very worthwhile, and that this therefore does indeed make the jack durable? while generally seen as weaker than other factions, do you believe the shields offset this slight imbalance?

[Demeritus]

The shields are more like extra hull boxes but I find them superior to hull boxes.

They can be regenerated far easier than repair on a warjack. While mechanics can do the job they have to be up close and cost extra points. Also their ability to keep damage off the grid gives our jacks the ability to soak a lot of damage before any systems are damaged.

I don't see the Ret jacks as more fragile, I disabused myself and my opponents of that notion long ago especially with the Phoenix.

[PPS_Jen]

After playing Cygnar, PoM, Mercs and Trolls for a number of years, I think the Angry Elves are very well balanced. Good melee, good shooting, solid casters, some really good solos... They're the faction I never knew I wanted to play.

I wasn't an assassination-style player until I started playing Ret. There are too many different ways to deliver the killing blow, be it with a caster, solo, unit or 'jack. Maybe I was playing my other armies incorrectly (a distinct possibility), but there's something about Retribution that suits my play style, which at this point is geared around punching my opponent's dudes in the facehole until they die.

I like the Myrmidons in Mk II a lot more, I know that. :D

[isawatsuke]

so you find the additional protection of the shield very worthwhile, and that this therefore does indeed make the jack durable? while generally seen as weaker than other factions, do you believe the shields offset this slight imbalance?

? are you asking if i think the shield makes our jacks more durable? then yea i do. I dont even care if they can be repaired and tbh i cant remember the last time i repaired a ret jacks force field. Lots of better stuff to do with focus. All i care about is you have to do a minimum of 10 points of damage to even touch my systems and you have to do around 15-20 points to break something off. Its like having a warjack that says all damage points go to hull first.

Now does this offset the fact that they have less mat and rat than other comparable warjacks? prolly not especially if your using them to hunt warcasters. However i usually use a manticore and his main job is to kill the enemy heavy, death jack, avatar, etc. And i find mat 6 to be a worthwhile trade-off for a pow 25 slap to the face. They also have guns too so i guess thier rat and mat are penalized for that. Tho tbh id give up the manticores gun any time if you give me back some points.

[Jice_]

Compair a Stormclad and a Phoenix on raw stats. (Same stats + points)

Stromclad has a buckler for :Buckler:, two less total damage boxes.

Phoenix has Phoenix field and Self field regen.

If they are both shot at by lets say, 6 Houseguard Riflemen, and take a POW 21(total) hit from each of them, the Stormclad would take only 12 damage total and the Phoenix 18, meaning the phoenix would have to roll a 6 on phoenix field to have the equivilent durability. But having each of them roll 11 on thier damage roll's are highly unlikely, but this is just an experiment so bare with me.

Now say the same unit CRA's both the jacks with the same roll, dealing 27 damage each, the Stormclad take 8 Damage, the Phoenix takes 9. Now the phoenix only has to roll a 1 on phoenix field to be equal in durability, and since you can't get lower than 1, any other roll makes him more durable. Rolling an 11 on only one roll is also far more likely to actaully happen.

So, with this little thought experiment, you can kinda see what it is that these fields do to greatly boost the durability of our jacks. Thier damage grid is an illusion, they are no worse or better off than eithr Cygnar or Cryx in terms of durability. The only thing that's actaully cripling is the generator. Retribution are now the only faction that still looses weapons/abilities before they are destroyed.

Which is why you should always bring an arcanist!

[RobD]

We've got a local player who's planning to start a Ret force. To my amazement, among the selling points, Ret are "durable" :)

Guess it all depends on your perspective. He's a pure Cryx player currently.

yeah but if you look at the units which are durable:

Houseguard halberdiers
Dawnguard all types
Heavy Jacks
Light Jacks

...not the stuff people are crying about (MHSF, MHA, ghost snipers etc etc) which all fall over to a stiff breeze.

[Erebos]

I still want a more 'caster' like caster with a 'real' feat. im really disappointed in the unoriginality of our casters. but with the right jacks, solo,s and units to compensate my retribution have preformed fairly well.

[Mr_Smigs]

...not the stuff people are crying about (MHSF, MHA, ghost snipers etc etc) which all fall over to a stiff breeze.

meh... who needs durability when you can have first strike...

[RobD]

meh... who needs durability when you can have first strike...

meh...who needs first strike when you durability...

works both ways.

[Mr_Smigs]

meh...who needs first strike when you durability...

works both ways.

exactly.

ret can swing the army to work either angle...
MHSF is their first strike option, and the tiers to put them in, are excellent in pushing that idea...

the stand-and-deliver troops have a harder time setting up a first strike, but usually have enough leftovers to still fill the enemy's plate...

this is really what makes Retribution able to keep up with the other factions, they're already at a point it took 4 books for the others to get to... so most non-ret players are used to picking one option over the other and then working with it the best they can...
whereas a ret player can acutally build lists that'll shift gears halfway through the battle to catch the oppoent off guard...