Devastating Open Fist?

[FC17]

I've just notice that the crusader's open fist is POW 3, while the Templar's shield is POW 1. Does this make sense to anyone else or do I just not understand the devastation of the menite pimp slap?

[Skyydragonn]

anyone that thinks a shield is a good weapon should go out and try swinging one around for a while. shields are unwieldy, clumsy and extremely heavy. Making them very difficult weapons to use effectively, sure they're heavier than a fist would be but due to drag/air resistance often dont hit with much force not to mention that your hitting witha much braoder surface thus distributing the impact over a greater area instead of focusing it in a smaller location.

Yes it "looks" like a shield would hurt more, but in practicality its not much more effective than trying to hit someone with a sheet of plywood :)

[RabiTampa]

I studied medieval combat and the shield is underrated, it warmachine/hordes, it should 'stun' the hit model and negate on of the model's attacks... IMHO...

[halbard100]

Honestly I've done SCA fighting, we aren't allowed to use shields to their full potential but just the shoving you can do with them is pretty potent since theres a fair amount of mass you're moving. The Deadliest Warrior did an experiment with a spartan shield, the guy took a big sweep with it and struck the dummy with the edge of the shield square in the head. That smack was 3.2Gs, thats like being in a car wreck... on the outside of the car.

I write it off as game balance, I'm nearly in love with the templar and that mace, its my new favorite non-unique jack, if that shield was say POW 4 or 5 it be busted and way more than 8 points. Still a sweet jack.

[Steampunk Jim]

You all fail to realize that the Crusader has the mighty pimp hand of death. I've killed so many suckers with that thing.

[Justicator]

Mighty pimp hand of death?! I love that. I gotta remember that next time I field a crusader.

[PitLord]

Given that:

1) Steam jacks don't exactly get tired swinging a shield
2) It has giant fricking spikes on the bottom of it
3) The fist looks like it contains enough delicate joints that it shouldn't be able to take the bounding of being smashed against another jacks hull

I am forced to conclude that it was a balance decision.

If you want a fluff reason perhaps the cortex isn't really "programed" to use the shield well offensively.

It would be an interesting jack bound or imprint that a given (unique) jack gets extra power from having learned the fine art of beating an opponent with the edge of a shield.

I know we have a unique revenger already, but something like:
Critical Offensive repulsion: on a critical hit the target is knoked down.
Would be super cool.

[Necra-Chi]

Open fists shouldn't even have a power. They should just get their STR on damage.

I mean the crusader actually has two fists, it just chooses always to swing alarge weapon with the right hand. Fist with weapon adds a power. Fist without a weapon should not add a power.

But hey, they wanted warjacks to be better, and the ones with only one melee weapon tend to be gimped if their main weapon goes down, so they need a god strong backup.

[Skyydragonn]

I mean the crusader actually has two fists, it just chooses always to swing alarge weapon with the right hand. .

If i'm not mistaken most warjacks have the weapons bolted into the hands so its not exactly like they can put them down.
I would imagine this is aprtly to keep the jack from becoming confused if/when it dropped its weapon as well as a way to keep players from swapping weapons around on jacks (left/right ) hands. Although i really dont see why the last bit is a problem other than to prevent confusion when looking at stat cards.

[Lanz]

We've talked about this before, I think. I seem to recall making the point that swinging a large blunt object like a shield should do more than fist, from the sheer weight of impact behind it. Not to mention striking with the shield's edge(and furthermore not mentioning that in the case of the templar, the shield has a spiked rim). Okay, so maybe I am mentioning those. It'd also depend on the shield itself. A big wood tower shield and a small metal buckler are not going to hit the same. Ultimately its not much different than any other blunt weapon, once you know how to wear it and how to apply it.

Though, all things considered, Templar with Ignite and Infusion has a PS16 shield, and that's no slouch.



If i'm not mistaken most warjacks have the weapons bolted into the hands so its not exactly like they can put them down.
I would imagine this is aprtly to keep the jack from becoming confused if/when it dropped its weapon as well as a way to keep players from swapping weapons around on jacks (left/right ) hands. Although i really dont see why the last bit is a problem other than to prevent confusion when looking at stat cards.

Nupe. Crusader had to be able to pass for a laborjack, and the armaments were created on the side to arm it quickly if needed. If any bolting is applied, it's not mentioned anywhere in any of the protectorate's jack backgrounds, and generally leaves the impression that yes, they can drop them if needed.

Personally, I'd perfer it if we got to custom build our 'jacks, starting with a 'core' chasis, and selecting armaments for it, which then give it it's special rules.

Also, if you look at stuff like the extreme juggernaut, it's axe can be used in either hand, since the fingers are all individually-posable.

[RabiTampa]

If i'm not mistaken most warjacks have the weapons bolted into the hands so its not exactly like they can put them down.
I would imagine this is aprtly to keep the jack from becoming confused if/when it dropped its weapon as well as a way to keep players from swapping weapons around on jacks (left/right ) hands. Although i really dont see why the last bit is a problem other than to prevent confusion when looking at stat cards.

This made me laugh. two things came to mind:

1. A Warcaster/Warjack exchange in the fashion of King Julien in Madagascar 2...

Kreoss: Here have a mace
Crusader: Thank you very much
Kreoss: Here, have another weapon
Crusader: That's ok. one is enough
Kreoss: but look at you, you look so under equipped
Crusader I DON'T WANT ANOTHER WEAPON, OK!!

2. A exchange of stupidity between a Crusader, a Reckoner and a Redeemer...

"you had this, and you had... oh I don't know..."

[Steampunk Jim]

Another logical conclusion is that the Crusader knows the five point exploding heart technique.

[Skyydragonn]

Personally, I'd perfer it if we got to custom build our 'jacks, starting with a 'core' chasis, and selecting armaments for it, which then give it it's special rules.
I expect to see something like this when warmachine hits the video game market (which hopefully will be sometime soon-ish) If whitemoondreams can get it rolling.

[Justicator]

Nupe. Crusader had to be able to pass for a laborjack, and the armaments were created on the side to arm it quickly if needed. If any bolting is applied, it's not mentioned anywhere in any of the protectorate's jack backgrounds, and generally leaves the impression that yes, they can drop them if needed.

We have Ninja jacks!

(Ninja had to be able to pass as peasants but arm themselves in a hurry, hence the predilection for peasant weapons like Kama and such.)

yes, I'm being silly ... sorry ;)

[FC17]

Another logical conclusion is that the Crusader knows the five point exploding heart technique.

Done. Problem solved.

[Lanz]

Another logical conclusion is that the Crusader knows the five point exploding heart technique.

My FoS under reznik one-shots buncha stuff with his PS18 fists. That's pretty heart-'splodey.

[tzeentchling]

Another logical conclusion is that the Crusader knows the five point exploding heart technique.
Are any opposing casters named Bill?

[Lanz]

We could just name them all Bill. That'd solve everything.

[WielderOfTheTrueLaw]

You all fail to realize that the Crusader has the mighty pimp hand of death. I've killed so many suckers with that thing.

The Castigator has double mighty pimp hands of fiery death. More commonly known as :DmgType-Fire::Open-Fist: