Why were the Reeves totally ignored?

[LemmingJesus]

Nothing has changed at all. Okay, the hunter effect was modified a bit. Are they that perfect that they didn't need any changes?

[Elias Macale]

Yeah, most people are agreeing that the Reeves need some attention. I haven't tested them at all myself, but the other Circle player at my store got a few games in with them, and from what I saw, they died horribly in all of them without doing a anything.

[Spooker]

Maybe there is something up "PP" sleeve with a new Warlock
or attachment coming out next year that really boost the
Reeves. I at least hope so.


Take care.

[Elias Macale]

Maybe, but the FT is an opportunity to make the unit stand on its own, rather than the patchwork fixes that marked other lackluster units in the past (UAs, solos, etc.) We shouldn't have to take some unreleased solo or UA to make them good, because the FT is supposed to fix them.

If they got something like the mule's gun that increases their range when they stand still, I think they'd be in a much better position. That way they don't have a single CRA at a long range while moving, but can better take advantage of Dual Shot.

[Talking Head]

I suspect that it is a case of deadlines.

I think PP is hellbent on having 'official' Hordes MK II rules ready for release in January alongside Prime MK II.

With a timeline like that, they pretty much have to conduct the field test right now.

What happens if you are not done fully upgrading something but need to deliver for a milestone? You roll back the incomplete features to the non-upgraded versions and deliver it while trying to maintain a straight face. Is that what happened with the Reeves? Who knows, but it is consistent with how the world works.

[Mavwick]

I know there's potential locked away in double tap, but there's so few ways to engineer it actually working well. Hunter is a really solid ability. I'd throw double tap away in a heartbeat to be cheaper and have some ability like:
Double Crossbows: Re-roll missed attacks
Then make them cheaper. Those Pygs with 14 inch guns for 5/8 make me really jealous. I'd rather have a 5/8 shooting unit with range, then a more expensive one with corner-case abilities. They need to be re-imagined from the ground-up. Hunter isn't enough to ever make me consider them before Bloodtrackers.

[Pickles]

I know there's potential locked away in double tap, but there's so few ways to engineer it actually working well. Hunter is a really solid ability. I'd throw double tap away in a heartbeat to be cheaper and have some ability like:
Double Crossbows: Re-roll missed attacks

This is exactly what I was thinking. It keeps them mobile which is a faction trait. I would call it "twin-linked" though :p

[Marth]

Wow... Reeves have double tap? I'm surprised, they took it away from our Assault Kommandos...

[GrandmasterEJ]

Circle players dont like reaves because of 2 simple words....

Nyss Hunters

They do what reaves do but so much better, and they are weapon masters to boot! Add the fact they are the same price... all reaves get are in-faction bonuses that nyss dont. But then you just place lightning tendrils on them and giggle as everything they touch dies and their weapon master melee attacks just gained reach...

[Brandubh]

I plan on extensively playtesting Reeves and pushing for additional range, bushwack or some other boost. Let's face it, Pyg Bushwackers have range 14 and bushwack, why can't our Reeves?

From a fluff perspective, the entry specifically mentions that our Reeves prefer crossbows because they can fire and flee.

Also, the loss of Kneel on War Wolves and the loss of Morraig's gift of prowl both really pushed Reeves back to the bottom.

So, please leave feedback, make suggestions and let's try to get this unit up to par with the other ranged units in the game.

[LEJKaya]

I still say Snap Fire instead of rapid shot would make all the difference.

Then they could move and some would still get 2 shots.
currently they may as well no have dual shot since they have too short a range to use it.
Then if they want to fit in a circle army with reduced control and more reliance on speed and hit & run they need a hit & run ability too.

[Rosicrucian]

I still say Snap Fire instead of rapid shot would make all the difference.

Then they could move and some would still get 2 shots.
currently they may as well no have dual shot since they have too short a range to use it.
Then if they want to fit in a circle army with reduced control and more reliance on speed and hit & run they need a hit & run ability too.
One thing to consider is that snap fire has some negative synergy with CRA that dual shot does not since only the CRA leader will receive an additional attack. On the other hand, the CRA is more likely to hit in the first place.

[Nalik]

The Reeves should be useful without a UA, if a unit isn't useful enough without the UA then it's not useful with a UA as the models forming the UA are not replaced (unless they are a standard) when destroyed. Now don't mistake that as they should be a destroyer of all things, but you have to look at a unit and be able to say "I could see my self playing them". Right now all I can say is that the metal they are made from is worth more to me than the models themselves.

[Rosicrucian]

The Reeves should be useful without a UA, if a unit isn't useful enough without the UA then it's not useful with a UA as the models forming the UA are not replaced (unless they are a standard) when destroyed. Now don't mistake that as they should be a destroyer of all things, but you have to look at a unit and be able to say "I could see my self playing them". Right now all I can say is that the metal they are made from is worth more to me than the models themselves.

Well "tactics" do stick around even if a UA is killed, but I agree with your argument.

[Blaque]

I think they should get Rapid Shot instead of Double Tap myself. This would allow them to shoot on the go and fully use theri abilitie sin ways Nyss can't quite do. Right now I believe they are costed based on their volume of attacks, but that doesn't take into account that Nyss have more attacks which hit, as well as having a longer range total (19" on the move versus a Reeve's 16" for one shot or 10" for two).

Bushwack also would be a great addition I think and I would gladly accept that, personally. I also kind of wonder if they are costed around Morraig a bit still, who use to give them Prowl and I do wish they had some access to some bonuses that they use to get from terrain. Having Morraig buff Wolves of Oroboros againw ould in a sense help him as well being a 5PC model.

And stuff.

[Mutton]

Here's the deal; if you could bushwhack, you could dual shot. Now, you don't get to dual shot right now, so you won't find much use from bushwhack either.

[theOREO]

The Reeves haven't changed, but the formation and CRA rules have. I used to take Druids + UA to get them far enough away from eachother not to be AOE bait after taking their shots. The new changes patch their lack of survivability that Morraig did through Prowl in Mk1.

If they got something like the mule's gun that increases their range when they stand still, I think they'd be in a much better position. That way they don't have a single CRA at a long range while moving, but can better take advantage of Dual Shot.
This is a very good idea. Having a greater minimum threat range without increasing their overall threat is what they need to be balanced and still effective. I'd settle for +2" and view them as worth their points.

[DemonCalibre]

After thinking about it, I would trade dual shot, for double tap in a second.

Though I don't think Double Tap is coming back, but a guy can dream.

[Buddhanutz]

After thinking about it, I would trade dual shot, for double tap in a second.

Though I don't think Double Tap is coming back, but a guy can dream.


Does double tap require them to hit? Or is that rapid fire? Anyway, these guys cant hit anything. They are RAT 5. They can rely on CRA but with a ten inch range they are not going to be able to dual shot so you are paying x amount of points for 3 RAT 7 POW 13 RNG 10 crossbow shots. The trackers destroy this. To be effective at all they need an across the board RAT increase to 6 plus an extension to their RNG.

[DemonCalibre]

Double tap requires a hit, speaking as a man that played and loved MK1 Assault Kommandos, Double Tap is a massively powerful rule.

If they got double tap the unit would be able to produce 9 rat 7 pow 12s(waterfalling) and 1 rat 5 power 10.

+1 rat increase and range 16 on their crossbows? That isn't going to happen.

Honestly a powerful and very realistic enhancement is +2 to there range, saddly I think they are saddled with Dual Shot(which imho is a terrible rule, even for long gunners). The range increase would make them playable, though most likely not great.

[magi]

Also note that Wolves of Orobros get Ranked Attack with the UA. This would allow them to screen a unit of Reeves and perhaps give them a turn of dual shot without them being charged in return.

Of course, this doesn't fix the fact that they are kinda a bum unit by themselves. I say just give them +2" range.

[Falc]

Also note that Wolves of Orobros get Ranked Attack with the UA. This would allow them to screen a unit of Reeves and perhaps give them a turn of dual shot without them being charged in return.

Which would mean the Wolves would perform sub-par just to allow the Reeves to do *something*. Not a trade I'd make.

[Buddhanutz]

Honestly a powerful and very realistic enhancement is +2 to there range, saddly I think they are saddled with Dual Shot(which imho is a terrible rule, even for long gunners). The range increase would make them playable, though most likely not great.


Thats what I said :) Boost RAT to 6 not their range. Increase their range by 2 inches.

[BlitzR]

Maybe there is something up "PP" sleeve with a new Warlock
or attachment coming out next year that really boost the
Reeves. I at least hope so.


Take care.

But this is not FIXING the problem. I really don't see how forcing players to spend more on extra models to cover a units short comings is a fix? Doing that is little more than a cop out.

Khador MOW (both versions) got the same treatment, before and after the field test and final versions. As a result, a unit that probably symbolises Khador infantry better than any other will never see the table.

No, the solution is to address the basic short falls that the Reeves have. For me, it is the lack of range. I can settle at POW10, but only if they had their range bumped up to 14", 12" at the very least. With only 10" RNG you need to move to get into range, which means all the extra cost built into their points for having Dual Shot are totally wasted.