Black 13th, targeting flare.

[Silk8185]

ok, this may be a little difficult to explain, but i'll do my best. the black 13th are attempting to shoot my War dog, the Problem they have, is that there is a cloud effect completly obscuring their view (the wardog is on the opposite side of the cloud) now their "True Sight" doesnt ignore Clouds, but they do have their Targeting flare, (not sure of its name) which allowes them, and other models to ignore cloud effects to models under the Flare Template.

But!... this is the bit that confused me, the Targeting Flare ability read "This Attack becomes ...." so do they still have to roll to HIT the target of the AOE Flare?, and if thats the case, can they even target my wardog, behind a cloud, to make him visible?

[jonconcarne]

In answer to your question: Yes, the Black 13th needs to have LOS to create their "Fire Beacon" AOE. If your wardog is behind a cloud, they do not have LOS for the attack.

[Silk8185]

Thats what i thought, but couldnt make sense of the abiltiy to Ignore a Cloud working on something hidden behind a cloud, or the need for something that ignores a cloud effect if you cannot see through the cloud to begin with. *shrugs*

[snowydude]

however if the "Fire Beacon" happens to deviate onto the wardog behind a cloud then all models can ignore the cloud effect when targeting the wardog.

also true sight doesn't allow you to ignore cloud effects. only concealment,camo, and stealth.

[jonconcarne]

however if the "Fire Beacon" happens to deviate onto the wardog behind a cloud then all models can ignore the cloud effect when targeting the wardog.

true, but you still need LOS for the attack to even happen, which was his point I think. Blocking LOS totally doesn't happen very easily with most casters/armies, but it can be done with a clever use of terrain + clouds + other models.

[Silk8185]

actually i'd used Zerkova's Twiser, to place two 3" Aoe's side by side, and the wardog was completly behind it, the black 13th would have needed to move a good 13-14" and still be able to shoot to move around the Template.

As for the Fire Beacon Deviating, it couldnt deviate because it cant be fired right?, if they have no LOS, they cannot target, which means they cant even Miss and scatter. or at least thats how i understand the cant target rule.

[jonconcarne]

As for the Fire Beacon Deviating, it couldnt deviate because it cant be fired right?, if they have no LOS, they cannot target, which means they cant even Miss and scatter. or at least thats how i understand the cant target rule.

Yes, but if they shot at something else that was in front of the clouds, and missed, then it could deviate onto the wardog. The key is that they still need LOS to make the attack to let other models ignore cloud effects.

[Silk8185]

Yeah thats what i figured, basically it was a new tactic i'd thought of to try and protect against ever more present gunlines, specifically of the Cyngar Variety, and i saw the oppertunity there with the Clouds, just wanted to make sure they functioned as i had hoped.

Thanks all for the swift replies :)

[raincaller]

Don't you need a target for zerkovas twisters?

[Cloud-Gatherer]

Don't you need a target for zerkovas twisters?
Yes. Twister is an offensive spell. To use Twister to place two clouds next to each other you'd have to have them target two models near each other or get VERY lucky on the deviations.

[Silk8185]

Actually, this i hadnt noticed either... :S luckily the two clouds that were created were models i'd destroyed in a unit of my opponents but at other times i'd just placed them out in the same fashion as i do with Moshars Pillars. :(

well you learn something new every day i guess.

[pong]

Yes, but if they shot at something else that was in front of the clouds, and missed, then it could deviate onto the wardog. The key is that they still need LOS to make the attack to let other models ignore cloud effects.

Can they make the attack on nothing? or do you always need a target to shoot something?

[Weaselcreature]

You always need a target. The target doesn't have to be reasonable though. You may target something on the opposite side of the board (if you have LOS), knowing there's a stealth model around your RNG, and you're just hoping for a good deviation roll.