unit sizes - max? min? unit attachment?

[mrhuettel]

fellow cygnarians!

something that has been touched in many posts but never thoroughly discussed is the question of units and their sizes. which units need maximum size? which functions well without unit attachment? are rangers the only ones capable of their job with a unit size of six only and without unit attachment or weapon attachment?

to distinguish between the different units, i think it is reasonable to put rangers aside (six troopers, no ua, no wa, noch maximum size) and to categorise by using maximum numbers:

- 6 troopers + ua: atgm, stormblades
- 10 troopers without ua: stormguard
- 10 troopers and ua: long gunners, sword knights, precursors
- 10 troopers and ua and wa: trenchers

in a completely different category: field mechaniks and storm lances.

so, what do you think? is the atgm ua an auto-include? are six long gunners worthwhile? can a six-monk-unit of precursors work on the field? further ideas on discussions?

[Shinobiwolf1980]

I think Long Gunners receive the most benefit when at full strength. I see a lot of Khador, so punching through that armour is essential.

The UA for ATGM is essential for hunting down those hiding retribution and cryx characters, but otherwise I don't think he adds much unless he's marshalling.

That's just my opinion.

[vesslan]

I used to run my Stormblades with the UA, but recently I've been running them without to save some points for other stuff. I thought I would miss Assault and the morale reroll but I don't. Sure, the 3" extra range on shooting with intentionally failed charges was kind of good but I rarely killed anything important that way and it could be a dangerous move that left me open to counter charges. If it was a real charge against infantry my melee attack would be wasted if I killed with Assault, and against 'jacks the boosted melee attacks would do most of the damage anyway.

Now, I should point out that I run a rather shooty/magicky force and mostly use my Stormblades as a counter charge unit, in a more assault oriented force the UA might give the unit more of a boost, of course.

[Gorbad]

IMO, the versatility the Gunmages get from getting True Sight makes it an auto-include if you are bringing gunmages to a tournament.

And I kind a feel the same way about Precursors. The UA does so much for them that I'd rather take a min unit + UA than a max unit without. (and wouldn't bother with just a min unit IMO)

On the other hand I feel that Long Gunners work no matter what configuration you take them in. It's just that the six man unit does something different from the bigger unit.

With the Trenchers I don't think I'd ever take the max unit. I might fill them out with UA and WAs but I see little reason to take the max unit.

Stormguards probably needs a full unit as they are somewhat easy to kill and will need the extra bodies.

Sword Knights? Meh, whatever will probably work.

[Techcasualty]

IMO

Bring with the UA
stormblades - I rarely find a game where I don't use assault. Having two extra swords is fantastic

gun mages - Suddenly my 6 point unit can murder solos? Yes please.

trenchers - If I'm going to pay out the *** for digin, I might as well get the UA that lets them STAY dug in.

pre-cursors - boost and kneel? Why arn't you taking it

Don't have to bring the UA
long gunners - In the day and age of 'bubble' formations, doesn't really seem necessary. Supression fire is meh. Only gives you one extra rifle

sword knights - Meh, pronto and practice maneuvers? Meh

[Elohel]

I usually field my stormblades with nCaine. They need the UA. Snipe + Deadeye + assaults = Range 11 POW 14 AOE3 (on hit) which happens often with deadeye. As far as I am concerned, Stormblades cost 8.

Gun mages also need their UA. Thats another unit I dont consider fielding without its UA.

Never used the trenchers.

Long gunners I can see the need for max squad. UA depends on who you are fielding them with. Not necessary with Siege. Probably important with anyone else.

[lawyerpants]

I fell you need the UA with the Stormblades. And You MUST have a unit size of ten when using long gunners. I don't have enough experience with anything else to comment on them.

[Gorbad]

And You MUST have a unit size of ten when using long gunners.

Why?

I usually ran 6 or 7 in MK I quite successfully, and I see no reason why a min unit can't be worth using. Sure, it's not going to be demolishing jacks in a single turn but that's not why you bring a min unit anyway.
It's still very good anti-infantry shooting, high volume of fire, quite accurate, although less mobile than the Gunmages.

Yes, if you are looking for something to kill heavy jacks bring as many as you can. But Long Gunners can work in any amount you like them in, you just have to be clear about what you want them to do and bring/play them the right way then.

[Mutton]

My general rules of thumb
Stormblades: Only take the UA if you have Snipe, Deadeye, or Rangers
Stormguard: Max unit
Longgunners: Max unit
Trencher: I dislike them overall, but they have very different roles depending on what you want out of the unit
ATGM: Always have the UA
Sword Knights: Max unit, no UA
Precursors: Max, take the UA

[Loitering, Inc.]

Long gunners I can see the need for max squad. UA depends on who you are fielding them with. Not necessary with Siege. Probably important with anyone else.

I kinda disagree with this one. It's impossible for them to all get to shoot if you are sticking a max unit in foxhole with out the Ranked attacks.

[phreaker187]

I usually always bring the min unit of PK with the UA.
Max Long Gunners
Min Swordknight, usually as a speed bump and filler
max Stormguard.

[UBomb]

Well the way I see it.

Stormblades - I have never run them without the UA. I really like assault and run pCaine alot. Will try without the UA.
Long Gunners - I have tried min with UA, Max with and without and I would say that ranked attack is great because if you use two ranged units you can have the second standing right behind the long gunner as a shield. Its the same as Precursors.
Trenchers - In mark 1 I would run Max with UA & Wa. Have not really tried them in mark 2 but I would guess I would run Min with Max WA and no UA.
ATGM - Truesight is just to good not to bring the UA.

Don't have the Sword knights, Stormguard, or Precursor Knight. Of these three I am going to get the Precursors and I plan on Min with UA because agian Ranked attack is Awsome.

[EnternalVoid]

I think I am going to have to argee with Mutton on most of the units myself

Stormguard and Longgunner are always maxed if possible and often not included if they can't be maxed. Sword Knights fall into this to generally as you need a maxed unit often for them to soak up damage.

I have actually not played with the new Trenchers yet, feel you need some trick to get the most out of them.

ATGM and Precursors really want their UA as they are all sorts of useful.

Stormblades... generally I have field them with out their UA so far. If I was playing pCaine, then I would consider it. But I just find it hard to get 2 more guys for 3 points, where for those points I could get 3 stormsmiths or almost the B13th.

[UBomb]

How many people take more than the min on Storm Lance?