Some questions about Hordes and the Circle.

[Lind0rm]

Hi there, my name is .... and only recently me and some friends started with the game warhammer 40k. It's a slow game and such I got in contact with Warmachine in my local boardgaming store and therefore Hordes later on.
I fell in love with Circle of Orboros (and The Protectorate of Menoth) directly and have searched some info about Warmachine/Hordes gaming.
With the help of Youtube, Miniwargaming, forums I got the basics but not truly everything is clear to me..

So... here comes teh Noobz questions! :D

1Q: What is these "15 pts" lists I keep hearing about? How does the Point system works? Isn't the warpack around 375 points?
2Q: There are several Warlocks, and ideas/list for each for what I have learned. But haven't found/seen a single one about the Warlock Mohsar the Desertwalker (http://privateerpress.com/hordes/gallery/circle-orboros/warlocks/mohsar-the-desertwalker). How come? Is it beacuse he's ineffective (haven't got the rulebook so can't se for myself). He's the cooler warlock for what I think, in design.
3Q: What is a good start for a new player who don't want what's in the warpack? I think Wolves and Wolfs looks like much more fun then the big bad wolf warpack.
4Q: Have heard that Horde is for the moment not so competitive against the newly upgraded/improved Warmachine with their latest expansion, Prime. Is that the truth?
5Q: With Warhammer there's the Force Req. chart. Is there something equivalent in Warmachine/Hordes?
6Q: Do you like Pancakes? ;)

Thanks in beforehand for any kind of answer(s). Hope I will be able to start playing Hordes Circle of Orboros from this in a not so distant future.

//Noob out.

[Dantes]

1Q: What is these "15 pts" lists I keep hearing about? How does the Point system works? Isn't the warpack around 375 points?
375 s part of the old MK1 points system. 15 points is from the new point system from Mk2.



2Q: There are several Warlocks, and ideas/list for each for what I have learned. But haven't found/seen a single one about the Warlock Mohsar the Desertwalker (http://privateerpress.com/hordes/gallery/circle-orboros/warlocks/mohsar-the-desertwalker). How come? Is it beacuse he's ineffective (haven't got the rulebook so can't se for myself). He's the cooler warlock for what I think, in design.
Circle has a very steep learning curve, Mohsar is steeper still. He can be very effective but it takes some time to learn and play correctly. He also lacks a fair amount of subtlety, he is easy to see coming so easy to counter by perceptive opponents.


3Q: What is a good start for a new player who don't want what's in the warpack? I think Wolves and Wolfs looks like much more fun then the big bad wolf warpack.
The Feral Warpwolf in the warpack is our blunt instrument. Their is nothing we have better at killing hard target, he is our only answer to jacks and our most versatile beat stick. I would consider having at least one in your collection mandatory for Circle.



4Q: Have heard that Horde is for the moment not so competitive against the newly upgraded/improved Warmachine with their latest expansion, Prime. Is that the truth?
Opinion. Some people think they are even, some think they are not. It is complete up to each player, there is no statistical proof yet to swing it either way yet.



5Q: With Warhammer there's the Force Req. chart. Is there something equivalent in Warmachine/Hordes?
Your army must contain at least one Warlock/Warcaster, beyond that anything goes.

[ImpactVector]

4Q: Have heard that Horde is for the moment not so competitive against the newly upgraded/improved Warmachine with their latest expansion, Prime. Is that the truth?
5Q: With Warhammer there's the Force Req. chart. Is there something equivalent in Warmachine/Hordes?
@4: I think the game just falls a little short because it's a little newer and has fewer options. Just like in WH there's a little power creep with every new faction book, in WM/Hordes there was a little bit of power creep with every expansion book (though they reigned it in quite a bit with MK2). Though, like Dantes said, this is all opinion.

@5: In addition to the Warcasters/Warlocks themselves, each 'caster/'lock comes with a certain number of Warjack/Warbeast points that they can only spend on jacks/beasts in their battlegroup. And while it's by no means required that you spend your jack/beast points you'd be silly not to. Also, because of the way the Fury mechanic works, Warlocks need to take warbeasts to generate Fury every turn (as opposed to Warcasters who generate their own Focus and give it to their 'jacks).

[Soylent]

6Q: Do you like Pancakes? ;)

I'm surprised this one was overlooked. Yes.

Oh, welcome to Circle.

[ImpactVector]

6Q: Do you like Pancakes? ;)
Oh. Right.

Answer: Not really. I'm more of an eggs and bacon person. ;)

[Mutton]

I like Pancakes, but Waffles > Pancakes.

That said, Mohsar is a lot of fun to play, but you really need to know what you're doing to run him well; he's difficult to learn and it takes time.

[Mix Master Gilgamesh]

About Mohsar, he is better run at the larger levels. If you really want to learn him I would play more around 25pts. At 15pts you will have trouble even keeping him full of fury unless you bring a couple Goraxes. (Just my opinion).

Also at 15 points you lean a little more on your caster's individual abilities so if they can't bring the pain or make your beasts do so, it becomes quite the uphill battle.

Pancakes are definitely in the Breakfast rotation with Breakfast Tacos, Muffins, and Biscuits and Gravy when I have the time. Otherwise whole grains (sometimes PBJ on whole wheat), yogurt, juice & fruit.

[brokennecron]

3Q: What is a good start for a new player who don't want what's in the warpack? I think Wolves and Wolfs looks like much more fun then the big bad wolf warpack.
I'm not excatcly sure what you mean, do you not like kaya, the argi or the warp wolf?

[Lind0rm]

Thanks for the answers it helps alot :D

@brokennecron I like them but I like the idea of having a league of wolfs coming straight for the kill... you know, a little fantasy thinking hehe.

@Mix Master Gilgamesh Breakfast tacos? Sounds fun hehe. Good points too.. I will think about that.

@Mutton Didn't think about waffles! Damn! Anywho all the more reason to start early with Mohsar?

@Soylent Thanks ^^

@ImpactVector (Cool name btw, and fitting picture) Yeah that sounds logical, so I must be careful what warlock I choose then. Egg and pork is my favorite ;D

@Dantes Thanks for all the good answers, but couldn't the Pureblood Warpwolf act/be better then the Feral Warpwolf at these things? But I'm the noob here, who haven't even got the rulebook to begin with, so that statement maybe is useless..

[Islington]

"@Dantes Thanks for all the good answers, but couldn't the Pureblood Warpwolf act/be better then the Feral Warpwolf at these things? But I'm the noob here, who haven't even got the rulebook to begin with, so that statement maybe is useless.. "

No not really. While the pureblood can indeed beat face when its necesary he fullfills a far diffrent role. The pureblood is far better at dealing with infantry than the Feral is but simply doesnt do as much damage to a high armor single target. Not to mention that the pureblood makes your ferals better. So my suggestion is to take both in pretty much every list you play. Theres certainly other options but this option is really really good.

One other thing no one seems to have mentioned is that Hordes is currently going through a total rules overhal. Well its on the tail end of it. Which means that the cards that come with the models you would buy now are no longer accurate. This isnt a problem for two reasons. Reason number one is that the current rules which are legal but still open to change for a little bit longer are available for download from this site. Reason number two is that when the rules are finalized privateer will release decks including updated cards for every single model in every faction. So you can just pick up a deck at your local game store for your faction and get rules for every model in say circle. Also the new cards will eventually be included with the models in the box as well.

[Dark Fledgling]

On the topic of your 4th and 5th questions. (hordes vrs warmachine and force organization). Overall, I would say that hordes is at a point (strength wise) that is directly comparable to say apotheosis level of warmachine (the 3rd expansion book released).

What that means as far as ther reletive power levels today is that while the individual strengths of models in both games are the roughly equal, IE a warmachine army does not automatically hit the table with a significantly large boost in power over an equal size hordes army.

The advantage warmachine DOES have is that because it is an older game, each faction simply has more toys to play with. Becase of this they armies in warmachine are more varied and much harder for you to tailer your own army against (IE not ALL cygnar armies are ranged focused). Also because of this the warmachine armies tend to have more counters against other army types.

EX: In the very first book Cygnar had trenchers. For several years they stood infront of the army, throwing up smoke and blocking line of sight so its ranged stuff could get into position. Then, in Superiority (the forth expansion) Khador got Assault Kommandos who specifically ARE anti trenchers, able to ignore cloud effects and ignore the advantage of trenchers.

So, as you can see, while warmachine is not "better" per se, it will be more varied and able to bring more counters to your own troops. This will be fixed in time however, and after another book release for Hordes, I doubt the difference will be notice able.

Now as far as the "force organization chart" goes. No such chart or requirements exist outside of bringing a warlock/warcaster to lead your army. Because you are required to bring a warlock with your force you will gain access to a number of warbeast points, varied by the warlock you choose (mohsar has 5). These are free extra points you can spend beyond the army size limit on warbeasts. (IE a 9 point feral only costs you 4 army points, or you could bring a free woldwyrd).

The nature of the Fury mechanic for hordes also effects the way you will build your army. Because of the symbiotic nature of Warlocks and there warbeasts, you will need to bring one or several inorder to fuel your warlocks powers to be the most effective. This is also the mechanic that really separates warmachine and hordes because as your warbeasts die, the power of your warlock similarly decreases as is looses transfer targets and fury generaters.

Overall, is a great game and if you do realy get into it you will find that the smaller scale (maybe two dozen models as opposed to idk, 50-100)lends itself to more crazily epic battles, turning tides, and close calls. I cant count how many times myself or my opponant has stolen the game by pulling off some crazy manuver.

EDIT: Oh and definatly check out the current rules online, you can download them off the main page, just browse through the news updates. It will help you get an idea of how each faction plays even if you don't have access to all the core rulebooks.

-DF

[Creaux]

One final thing about army building/organization charts; there is a field allowance. Characters (FA: C) can obviously only appear once in your army. Most warbeasts/warjacks are unlimited (take as many as your points total allows). A lot of units or solos are FA: 1, meaning one per Warlock. For all intents and purposes, treat that as only one per army until you've really gotten the hang of things. Other units and solos might have a FA: 2 or 3; which means 2 or three per warlock.

[Blaque]

How about that, more answers to your already-heavily-answered questions?


Hi there, my name is .... and only recently me and some friends started with the game warhammer 40k. It's a slow game and such I got in contact with Warmachine in my local boardgaming store and therefore Hordes later on.
I fell in love with Circle of Orboros (and The Protectorate of Menoth) directly and have searched some info about Warmachine/Hordes gaming.
With the help of Youtube, Miniwargaming, forums I got the basics but not truly everything is clear to me..
Well, that's what forums are here to help wtih. Good to see more folks into the Orboros stuff. New blood is always nice.


So... here comes teh Noobz questions! :D
Huzzah!


1Q: What is these "15 pts" lists I keep hearing about? How does the Point system works? Isn't the warpack around 375 points?
Currently, Hordes and Warmachine are in their second edition, dubbed Mk(Mark) II. One of the larger things that changed in the edition is the point system. Where models generally had a range going from as low as the signle-digits to as high in as over a hundred, models now are priced on a scale of 1-15. In addition, game sizes, which use to be about 275 (Battlebox), 350, 500 or 750, now go more often about 12ish (Battlebox), 15, 35 or 50. Simply, new system.

This new scale is in the Prime MkII core rulebook. It'll also be i nthe HOrdes one, of course, when that comes out in July-ish.


2Q: There are several Warlocks, and ideas/list for each for what I have learned. But haven't found/seen a single one about the Warlock Mohsar the Desertwalker (http://privateerpress.com/hordes/gallery/circle-orboros/warlocks/mohsar-the-desertwalker). How come? Is it beacuse he's ineffective (haven't got the rulebook so can't se for myself). He's the cooler warlock for what I think, in design.
He's mostly a high-curve warlock. Mohsar is very finicky on things like army size and what works with him. He also is pretty frail and so has to really be careful of how he protect shimself. He's actually a pretty solid caster, but works very different from the rest of our warlocks and so isn't generlaly as hopped on or suggested for new players. I like him a lot thematiclaly myself, I intend to play him more, just haven't of late for whatever reason.


3Q: What is a good start for a new player who don't want what's in the warpack? I think Wolves and Wolfs looks like much more fun then the big bad wolf warpack.
As others noted, not sure what you mean. If you wanna avoid Feral Warpwolves, its a bit hard. They are the best single-target killing warbeast sin our faction and with the right buffs, one of the deadliest things in the game. The Pureblood Warpwolf, by contrast, is great at kiling infantry and buffing the Ferals, but the two similar models in appearance are pretty different in role. This needs to be kept in mind, I think, if you build lists with one or the other and sometimes, its good to build with both.


4Q: Have heard that Horde is for the moment not so competitive against the newly upgraded/improved Warmachine with their latest expansion, Prime. Is that the truth?
I think Privateer Press do try to balance the games. The issue I have is that they let some things slip through the filter on Warmachine (some casters and units have a pretty high power scale) but it oftentimes feels they were more on the ball wtih Hordes. This means Warmachine has soem imbalanced stuff that Hordes doesn't often get. Also, I feel some design philsophy stuff got a bit odd. Warmachine seemed to do its best with minimizing the, "screw warjacks" rules, but this care doesn't seem to be going towards warbeasts and Hordes (solos with Dismebmerment, recent "anti-Hordes defense" effects and such). But again, it may be opinion on that.

I feel honestly that, again, some simply imbalanced stuff exists on both sides (despite the game as a whole being pretty balanced) and a great deal of it is on the Warmachine side.


5Q: With Warhammer there's the Force Req. chart. Is there something equivalent in Warmachine/Hordes?
You need at least one warcaster or warlock per force. That's usuall about it. Tournament formats also usually don't let you "build under" by more thent wo points. The way free warbeast and warjack points work, this also usually means you need at least one (as approrpiate tot he caster in question). Hordes also, due to the fury system, encoruages you take a few more beasts.

Besdies that, nothing is really mandatory. You don't actually need to field units, warbeasts beyond minimums or solos. That's up to you. Hell, in multi-caster games at higher point levels, you don't even need full allotment of warlocks. So in short, no not really.


6Q: Do you like Pancakes? ;)
I do. Especially German style. I'm more a French toast person myself, though.


Thanks in beforehand for any kind of answer(s). Hope I will be able to start playing Hordes Circle of Orboros from this in a not so distant future.

//Noob out.
Hope this adds to the plethora of good answers. Welcome aboard.

And stuff.