Any Thoughts on the Lesser Warlocks now.

[Vineuk]

So has any one played these yet in there lists and if so have they changed in the way they support Trolls now. I've only used Cragback and Lug in MK1 and am yet ot use them in Mk2. Pitty Crag lost WM but they look basically the same as before. I'm not sure if 11 points is too much or not.

A Mauler is 9 and Lug is basically the same stats except 1 less mat and has Grab & Smash as well. Then 2 points for Grag. Seems fair when you look at it this way. But I think I will find it hard to find 11 points to fit these in a list.

[Cannibalbob]

Well the relative cost of these guys has all gone up a bit in mkII. Brun lost weaponmaster, which makes his individual usefulness go down a bit. But Brun & Lug still suffer for having only a 6" threat range due to Brun's small control range. And Brun still cannot fully calm Lug down, but Lug effectively lost 3 THR since he lost his THR bonus from his bond in addition to a reduction in his natural THR. This is a problem when Brun cannot fully leech all his fury.

Frankly, without either an increased control range or a boost to 4 Fury I think Brun & Lug are a bit too expensive.


Wrongeye & Snapjaw on the other hand seem priced about right. I had started running them in mkI instead of Brun & Lug and I found that they worked better overall for a few reasons. Wrongeye is just as good as Brun is in melee since he has reach, 2 attacks, a higher base pow+s, and more fury to work with for boosts. This is more true now that Brun lost weaponmaster. In addition, Wrongeye gained snacking on his bite attack.

Wrongeye also got a slightly improved spell list, and Snapjaw was boosted overall. What makes these guys work better in my opinion, is that they have a larger control range, they are faster, and they can put thier speed to use. This is still true, and in fact Snapjaw is faster overall now since he no longer requires targets to be damaged to gain his boost to movement. He also gained reach on his tail attack - which was not previously a reach weapon. Against living models Snapjaw can charge 10" and still has 2" reach. That is double the charge range that Lug can generally pull off. Wrongeye has an 8" control range, an 8" charge, and 2" reach on one of his weapons as well. So they both work very well at moving fast.

And then there is the fact that Wrongeye is a 4-fury caster, which means he can fully cool off Snapjaw if you need him to. And to top it off, they pack an animus that makes you fully immune to ranged or magic attacks as they close in to the target.

For all that they cost less than Brun & Lug. I love the models for Brun & Lug, but they really need to tweak thier rules and/or cost a bit cuz Wrongeye & Snapjaw just work so much better for the cost.

[Stomphoof]

Don't forget that if the Dwarf (Brun) is killed, Lug is removed from play with him. I dunno if thats the same for Wrong Eye / Snapjaw but its a pain in the rear.

[Valkine]

I think that's the case for all of them now.

[Sevwall]

removed....

[Vineuk]

I love Wrongeye & Snapjaw models. I think there the best looking of all the lesser warlocks. The fact they can stop them self from being targeted by range is great and they make great screening models for a caster. It's a pitty they cost so much in Real money. Have to wait and see how they pan out and if the investment is worth it. Being married and playing a game like this really don't mx. Espically when the wife tells people I play tin soldiers lol. Women just don't understand lol

[Nicodemus]

I used Dahlia and Skarath in my first game.

I loved her Haunting melody spell. While the control area is small, she's immune to melee attacks. So you just need to be very careful to avoid long ranged attacks. Skarath makes a nice meat shield for that.

The more I look at her, the more I think it might be useful to have Skarath (with her just behind) lead a 'strike force' of axers or maulers. You can run them hot and not have to worry about fenzy.

Perhaps PP sees her as part of the 'fury control' that we lack?

[Tweak]

I find Brine to have lost some of his effectiveness due to how pig headed changed. Simply put with Bacon still healing any warbeasts in B2B and Brine not being able to run away from enemies so that he doesn't heal them, Bacon has become more of a liability than an asset in any melee encounter.

[SoulReclaimer]

I bought the Wrongeye and Snapjaw box over a month ago and I am itching to try them. I love the models and think they go well with the Trolls esthetically.

At 10 pts though, Can I squeeze them in and not suffer in areas needed is the question.

As far as the MKII cards - I think they are good.

[Soylent]

Well the relative cost of these guys has all gone up a bit in mkII. Brun lost weaponmaster, which makes his individual usefulness go down a bit. But Brun & Lug still suffer for having only a 6" threat range due to Brun's small control range. And Brun still cannot fully calm Lug down, but Lug effectively lost 3 THR since he lost his THR bonus from his bond in addition to a reduction in his natural THR. This is a problem when Brun cannot fully leech all his fury.


6" threat range? You mean to say you don't know how to get more milage out of it?

Activate Brun, move in the general direction of Lugs intended target. Now Brun is ahead of Lug, therefore moving his control area ahead of Lug but still keeping him in it. Lug now can chage 8" and be fine. He could technically move about 12"(clipping control radius) and still be inside...if he had that much movement ofcourse.

[Sevwall]

Every pairing but Rorsh and Brine have a defensive attribute or buff. And they cost just as much as Brun and Lug, who have the best defensive attribute.

The Pigs have a better threat range, but Brun and Lug have better damage output.

I think there is a problem there.

[Cannibalbob]

Every pairing but Rorsh and Brine have a defensive attribute or buff. And they cost just as much as Brun and Lug, who have the best defensive attribute.

The Pigs have a better threat range, but Brun and Lug have better damage output.

I think there is a problem there.


It is also worth noting that each of the minion warbeasts effectively lost 3-THR due to the alteration of thier bond. This hurts Brun & Lug and Rorsch & Brine the most.

Rorsch already has to guarantee camp a fury every turn to mitigate being sniped - as he is way too easy to kill. This means that he can only generally leech 2 fury from Brine. Brine has a HORRIBLE THR value of 8. This means that Rorsch cannot really force him much since if Brine frenzies he can no longer transfer and the whole pair is easily removed by killing Rorsch (very simple without transfers).

Brun & Lug fair a bit better, as Lug has a THR-9, but that will still fail a decent amount of time. When it does fail the target of Lug's frenzy is generally Brun - who can no longer transfer, and dies to a single average attack/damage roll (even with Stonehold active).


Rorsch could use a new spell, that gives him some form of defensive bonus. Perhaps something that gives him +2 def. He also needs a boost to 4 fury. Brun could stand to bump up to 4 fury as well.

[Cannibalbob]

6" threat range? You mean to say you don't know how to get more milage out of it?

Activate Brun, move in the general direction of Lugs intended target. Now Brun is ahead of Lug, therefore moving his control area ahead of Lug but still keeping him in it. Lug now can chage 8" and be fine. He could technically move about 12"(clipping control radius) and still be inside...if he had that much movement ofcourse.


This pair operates from Flanking attacks and working in base-contact. You cannot charge far at all and keep them operating effectively. When Brun gets outside of base contact from Lug he can no longer transfer for free, and he becomes much simpler to kill. This forces him to camp on his very limited fury amount, which then castrates his ability to leech from Lug. And if Lug frenzies the ability to transfer is completely lost - again making Brun rather easy to kill. Even Stonehold does not protect him that much from death if he cannot transfer.

To get a flank charge requires your target to be within about 7 inches of the pair (slightly farther) and means that one model out of this pair is making a stunted charge. Considering that this is less than the average charge range in the game this is not that great. It leads to these guys often being back-up units - and any beast can do that (often for much cheaper).

This pair is my favorite of all the minion warlocks in terms of models and story, but through experience in both mkI and now mkII rules they do not nearly perform as well as Wrongeye & Snapjaw - who cost less. Personally, I would like to see Brun & Lug at least as effective, if not slightly more so, considering that they cost more.

[The Happy Anarchist]

Keep in mind, that if Brun charges to grant flank to Lug, all of the sudden Lug is outside of Brun's control, and can't charge now.

I think what is needed is a rule that lets Lug charges models in Brun's melee range without being forced. That way you generally charge Brun in, get a few attacks and then have Lug go to town.

I think Pig Pen is supposed to be Rorsh's defensive spell. Not a great one, and could probably stand to be changed to be a little bit farther with the new charge rules. Still, most charge ranges fail if they lack pathfinder and are farther than 3-4" away from the "aura". One difference is that he plays farther back from the action. I generally kliked him for boosted Pig Iron shots, and he still does that. He also still does sneaky diversionary tactics to get Brine in assault position behind enemy lines. Requires surviving first contact but is funny when it happens.