Beast heavy Kromac list at 35 points

[toxicwisdom]

After the last online update I made a few ( more dramatic ) changes to the list I was trying to use during the fieldtest. Saturday night was the first chance I had to play it on a competitive level ( Steamroller 3W and 1L ) and played three games tonight with it a the LGS ( 3W and 0L )...

Kromac the Ravenous
Pureblood Warpwolf
Feral Warpwolf
Feral Warpwolf
Gnarlhorn Satyr
Lord of the Feast

...now I have my eyes set on looking for a 50 point list that will help this one grow.

Adding: Tharn Wolfriders ( leader and four grunts)

This leaves me with 5 points to spend, but on what ?

01. Wolflord Morraig - large base, fast model, aids with Warpath
02. Woldwyrd - anti magic and zone control
03. Gorax - animus for more damaging effects
04. Stoneward and Woldstalkers - adds ranged attacks to the list
05. Two Blackclad Wayfarers - longer threat range with Hunter's Mark
06. Argus - fast model, plus animus and paralysis look good
07. Sentry Stones with Manikins PLUS Shifting Stones - for obvious reasons

-- Taking either the Gorax, Argus, or the two Blackclad Wayfarers leaves me with one extra point to spend: in which case I would just add the Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew ( or Feralgeist ).

-- I think what I'm looking for is synergy ! Of the options above what will benefit the army the most. I'm kinda leaning toward the Woldwyrd.

[blueskin]

- Feral
+ Woldwarden. Lets you control the board and the pace more freely.

You also need Stones and a bunch of guys with wooden sticks that can move your opponents models around without having him/her calling you a cheater. :)

Sticking somewhat close to your selection of models, this is what I'd make of it.

Kromac
Woldwarden
Feral
Gnarlhorn
Druids
Shifting
Lord of the Feast

Please not that I'm very much in a learning phase with Kromac, but based on my exp you really should play the warden and the druids.

Playtest for yourself and see how you like it. Kill those casters! :D

[meleemadness]

Toxic, looks nice but how do you manage to get across the board without losing one beast to shooting?

Maybe it is my local meta but everyone seems to play ranged armies and ignore scenario objectives for caster kills.

I guess you keep a lot of fury on Kromac so he can transfer and then go in for some unbridled chaos?

Also, Im not sure druids are really needed, Kromac has some anti-magice already....Toxic did win nearly all his games with that list and I have seen Legion kicking butt with eThagrosh and beasts or Abby and beasts. I would have thought eKaya would have been nice but I am thinking the beasts in this list are to transfer damage to as the battlegroup speeds towards the enemy's caster for the final rapage.

[toxicwisdom]

You do realize you've killed the synergy between Ferals and the Pureblood by your suggestio, right... and all in favor of gaining the Woodwarden, Druids, and Stones ?

Pureblood and Ferals = three ghostly beasts that can trample or charge with speed and strength buffs. This is what has earned the wins so far: casterkills on turn two or turn three ( except one of them which was a casterkill scored by the Lord of the Feast ).

I can't see how removing that element and adding the models you've sugested can make the list better... hhmmm.

Don't get me wrong, as I do like those models and use them in my Mohsar list. But as you've mentioned you're still in the learning phase with Kromac - so really look through his profile and you'll see that those models/units might not work best with him.

the Mohsar list on the other hand looks like this:

Mohsar the Desertwalker
Gnarlhorn Satyr
Megalith
Woldwarden
Druids of Orboros (Leader and 5 Grunts)
Druid of Orboros Overseer
Sentry Stone (Leader and 3 Manikins)

[Bakemono]

You do realize you've killed the synergy between Ferals and the Pureblood by your suggestio, right... and all in favor of gaining the Woodwarden, Druids, and Stones ?

Blueskin is correct. You simply don't understand the new synergy. You don't need two Ferals. You need board control. The Woldwarden, Druids, and Stones make sure you will dominate with Kromac.


Pureblood and Ferals = three ghostly beasts that can trample or charge with speed and strength buffs. This is what has earned the wins so far: casterkills on turn two or turn three ( except one of them which was a casterkill scored by the Lord of the Feast ).

Heh. You keep right on believing this. This trick will work only at the start. It is a Kindergarten maneuver with no finesse and easily stopped once you hit a real opponent.


I can't see how removing that element and adding the models you've sugested can make the list better... hhmmm.

I'll be happy to play you and demonstrate it for you. The fact that you can't see it boggles my mind.


Don't get me wrong, as I do like those models and use them in my Mohsar list. But as you've mentioned you're still in the learning phase with Kromac - so really look through his profile and you'll see that those models/units might not work best with him.

You are still at the stage where you see Kromac only as a sledgehammer and rush at your opponent head on hoping to simply beat down anything with a Heavy rush. If your opponents are so poor as to give you this option, by all means use it. The shortest distance between two points is a straight line. You will find, however, that this won't last. You need board control against REAL opponents.

[meleemadness]

I never saw the power of using the druids. I actually fought a Baldur list with Kromac and the Tharn and my chicks with sticks cleaned them off the board in no time flat.

Anyway, most ppl spazz when you break into their decision making process, it is called initiative, part of the old Army doctrine from the 1990's, make the enemy react to you so you now control the flow of the battle.

Anyway, the tree hugger list has pieces that would be high value targets (HVT's) and if he took them out you would not be able to succeed. In the beast heavy list he has two or three (even four) models that are his HVT's.


In case you don't know what I am talking about.

HVT (http://usmilitary.about.com/od/glossarytermsh/g/h2882.htm)
HPT (http://usmilitary.about.com/od/glossarytermsh/g/h2876.htm)

You all do this when you play but you might not codify it...but you do it in your mind.

"This is what he needs to kill me or win the scenario with....this is what I need to kill so I can win the scenario."

[toxicwisdom]

"...Also, I'm not sure Druids are really needed, Kromac has some anti-magic already....Toxic did win nearly all his games with that list and I have seen Legion kicking butt with eThagrosh and beasts or Abby and beasts..."

Yeah, and the opponents weren't slouches - the loss came to an eGaspy list.

01. Cygnar Infantry... Feral ghostly trample with extra attacks = casterkill on turn two.
02. Khador 'Jacks and Cavs... Kromac Feat turn = casterkill on turn 3
03. Trollbloods all Beasts... Feral ghostly charge = casterkill on turn 3
04. Cygnar Gun Line... Feral ghostly trample with extra attacks = caster kill on turn two.
05. Khador 'Jacks and Infantry... Lord of the Feast = casterkill on turn three
06. Trollbloods Beasts and Blades... Feral ghostly charge = casterkill on turn four


"...I'll be happy to play you and demonstrate it for you. The fact that you can't see it boggles my mind..."

Let me know when you are in the New Jersey or Philadelphia area.


"...You are still at the stage where you see Kromac only as a sledgehammer and rush at your opponent head on hoping to simply beat down anything with a Heavy rush. If your opponents are so poor as to give you this option, by all means use it. The shortest distance between two points is a straight line..."

Incorrect, I see Kromac as a great toolbox model that can handle the situation. Yes, the Heavies hitting fast and hard is at the centerpoint of the list, but other elements handle the suggestions made here.


"...You will find, however, that this won't last. You need board control against REAL opponents..."

And I'll be sure to let my gaming group know that you think they are all slackers.

[Bakemono]

It was your dime. You asked for advice. You certainly don't have to take what you are given. If you don't see the value in what was suggested, far be it from me to tell you otherwise. Ignore it.

[Gobos]

I played my first game with Kromac today, and I love this guy.
His support spells are great.
What i feel toxicwisdom's list lacks, is some units that will be triggering Warpath - this spell is too great not to make use of it.

Here's a list I made:
Kromac
Megalith
PBWW
Gnarlhorn
3 Wolf Riders
6 Bloodtrackers

my opponent played Cryx Coven with deathjack, harrower, and several bonejacks.
Warpath let me hit him when he thought he was safe. wild aggression excluded the luck factor when hitting. and bestial is just great againt Cryx :D

[toxicwisdom]

"...What i feel toxicwisdom's list lacks, is some units that will be triggering Warpath - this spell is too great not to make use of it..."

The Lord of the Feast has been my primary trigger for Warpath early in the game. Then usually followed up with the Pureblood's spray attack.


"...It was your dime. You asked for advice. You certainly don't have to take what you are given. If you don't see the value in what was suggested, far be it from me to tell you otherwise. Ignore it..."

I asked for advice... really ? Perhaps in the edit later this afternoon - when I wanted to bring the list up to 50 points. But that was after the discussion regarding the 35 point list was already in progress. I did ask what makes the Woldwarden superior to the second Feral Warpwolf, and why the inclusion of Druids and Shifting Stones was better than my original list. The reply I received from you was on a preschool sandlot level: where is the real tactical advice ?

Kromac the Ravenous
Pureblood Warpwolf
Feral Warpwolf
Feral Warpwolf
Gnarlhorn Satyr
Lord of the Feast

-- versus --

Kromac
Woldwarden
Feral
Gnarlhorn
Druids
Shifting
Lord of the Feast

[Bakemono]

I did ask what makes the Woldwarden superior to the second Feral Warpwolf, and why the inclusion of Druids and Shifting Stones was better than my original list. The reply I received from you was on a preschool sandlot level: where is the real tactical advice ?

I think you should ignore my advice and that of the others offered you. Clearly you know better.

[Malfunction]

I really think you have to play with the druids to appreciate the unit. I truly think they are one of the best units in the game. They really allow you to dictate where and when the fight starts.

When I started with Kromac I was all bout getting him within 13" of the bad guy and going for the feat kill. Truth is that against a good opponent it is too easy to stop. You have to be in a position to switch to an attrition game, which Circle is not really that good at. With the Druids ability to push and pull, you can in many cases take out a sizeable portion of the bad guy's army without trading any of your pieces.

I happen to agree with Bakemono that board control is the key to victory. Each faction has different means of board control but the many of the wining lists are based around it. A great example would be Skorne's ability to launch Molik karn up to 22" away. I can't think of a simpler example.

Just another note on the stones. While the teleport ability is nice. I really use them for the added fury management. With the amount of warbeats in your lists, they will help a great deal.

[SlimShady]

I think you should ignore my advice and that of the others offered you. Clearly you know better.

Of course he does and what a great attitude to bring to the boards. That's the most complete Kromac list ever created and will probably win every tourney it enters. Learn it and use it Bakemono.

[toxicwisdom]

Of course he does and what a great attitude to bring to the boards. That's the most complete Kromac list ever created and will probably win every tourney it enters. Learn it and use it Bakemono.

:) spreading positive energy one game and post at a time :)

In all seriousness though - I've already been warned by a Mod so I'll step gingerly... My question was very much to the point: TACTICS: what exactly makes the suggested list superior to the one I have been playing ? Apparently - by your sarcasm - this is type of question brings with it a bad attitude to the forums... and yet on the other hand comments like Hah... REAL Players... Etc... help the gaming community grow stronger.

[Not Dice]

You were warned, as you acknowledge, and yet you continue to bicker. I'm shutting down this thread.