Greylords and Widowmakers as a Combined Arms unit

[zombie-a-go-go]

I love my warjacks, and any points I spend on infantry are points I can't spend on jacks. I'm running pButcher so I have a good force multiplier spell in Full Throttle, and can run an additional jack or two over what you'd think you can normally do with FOC6.

However, the bane of running jack-heavy, in my experience, is stupid infantry screens. They muddle up the board and keep me from applying force where it's needed, allowing my opponent to dictate the terms of important engagements.

So I should take infantry of my own top answer the opponent, but ... I don't like infantry.

The answer I've come up with is Widowmakers and Greylords as a combined unit. I'm used to running the Widowmakers, who are good for 6-9 shots over the course of my game when I'm playing aggressive. I'll throw them up front at max-AD, toss an Iron Flesh on them, and throw them at dangerous solos and infantry that I want out of the way before I engage with my jacks. This works... okay, but has very limited application against melee units, who will run at the Widows until they engage, and then the Widows go goodbye. It's even worse against units and solos who have Stealth, against which the Widows are terrifically useless.

So my new thought is to add a unit of Greylords to my Widows, and treat them as a 7-man unit of dedicated infantry/solo destroyers. Iron Flesh goes on the Greylords now, and the Greylords toss Blizzards on the Widowmakers. Now the Widows are at DEF18 v ranged and the Greylords are sitting on DEF17. This "unit" will still play forward, in front of pButch and his warjacks. The Widows continue to pick off inportant solos and put a dent into enemy units, and when said units get close enough to threaten the Widowmakers in melee the Greylords unleash their Frostbites.

The survivability of this combined-arms unit, in practice, remains to be seen. Their DEF will be quite high, but ARM is stupid-low. AOEs are not as much of a concern as raw stats would suggest, as this group can spread out quite a bit and still operate at max efficiency (so long as a Greylord remains within 5" of a Widowmaker, you're golden).

Your thoughts?

[thomwill]

hmm. like this idea. could work with any caster with access to iron flesh. i've thought of doing something similar with a eirusk list (though no iron flesh), keeping the widowmakers up front with blizzards on them, blocking LOS while a unit of ifp / mow move up from behind and charge through. be interested to see how this plays out. may have to try it.

[whats82]

You can also spray your jacks with greylords should they get stuck in infantry, it's pretty easy to peel them off.

[Shadow37]

Have you tried using Mortars yet?

[marskitten]

Mortars are the answer for everything.

[zombie-a-go-go]

I dislike mortars. 3 points is too much for what ends up being two rounds of POW8 AOEs that have a distinctly non-negligible chance of missing everything. Against higher-ARM infantry such as Menoth, Khador, and Retribution brings to the field they struggle to kill anything, and squishy models have things like Force Barrier, Go to Ground, Hunter, that keeps them safe anyway.

[mongre36]

If you have FFA the mortar is excellent, but for 3 points it is too expensive at 35 points the size I am seeing pre-dominantly. 3 points is also the cost of a full WA allotment of rocketeers which have the same effective range and hit what they shoot at.

There is probably no better target for FFA though.

[Esper]

So you'd iron flesh the graylords? Interesting, I might have to try that.

I do something similar with a min unit of Winterguard and UA + Widowmakers. The Winterguard's job is to spray infantry off of my jacks, and intercept weapon masters before they reach my line.

[saxondog]

Mortars are the answer for everything.

I have never understood people's love affair with the mortars. Even with FFA on them they don't hit reliably and are only good for about two shots per game. After that you risking deviations onto your own forces. My opponents do a fine job of killing my models, I don't see any reason to assist them further.

SFK

[Uehen]

Mortars. Meh.
I have two and used them often enough, but that was 25 points and was a nice fill in if I was light on control.
Now I see myself with the feild gun more. Or more like neither. I find I am usually running/charging and my own models get in the way. Leaving the weapons crew to sit and watch.

[whats82]

It depends on what you expect the mortar to do and what you get out of it. If you expect 6 points for 2 mortars will liquefy large patches of infantry then you're up for disappointment. If you expect it to knock off a few low-arm infantry while keeping your opponent more dispersed than he prefers, then you're closer to reality.

Besides, with Joe, you can have pretty reliable direct Pow16 on most jack and beasts from 20" away, that's not a negligible threat.

[Binz]

I like Mortars. Even as the more expensive version. Just the fact you out-threat most units in the game makes them that awesome.

However - thats a great idea for your combined arms unit. The counter to that unit though? Mortars. two 4" templates scattering over 7 guys who have to be *relatively* close together is a recipe for disaster. Also, stuff like Deliverers will mince them to bits.

But, they would be great if you had something else that is threatening that the Deliverers/mortars would rather shoot at, like a unit of Winterguard. If you can divide the attacks, your units will last much longer.

Or you can just take a Devastator and wave bye-bye to that infantry screen. Behemoth + Destroyers work well also.

[Destroyer123]

Yeah Mortars are whatever they are but the post was not about mortars. To the OP I like this idea. WM and GLs are always in my lists. Best advice I have is try it and see how it plays. I'm gonna try it because I like the notion.