Retribution and lots Myrmidons

[Jake the Dog]

I remember reading that Retribution is faction that can't run heavy Myrmidon lists. I'm a bit sceptical as all WM factions can run lots jacks even at 35pts easily. I see RoS has a few Jack Marshals and Arcanists if Focus is a problem, has some general jack incentives around (Flank) and Vyros has great Battlegroup benefits (Bird's, Feat, Flank) as an incentive for running a lot of jacks. I don't see why Retribution can't do good Myrmidon lists.

[Cotillion989]

Well the main issues with running jack heavy are that the majority of our warcasters are very focus selfish.

We do have good jackmarshalls with some good synergies with the jacks that can help get around this, but I find that if I do want to run jack heavy I use vyros, and If I run vyros I will put most of the jacks, if not all in his battlegroup to take advantage of his feat and bird's eye.

[hausdorff space]

You and your threads Lester :p

RoS can do good jack-centric lists. The issue is that they don't have casters like Karchev, Mortenebra or Amon who really amp up the abilities of multiple jacks; giving strong reasons to run 4+ jacks.

Overall, RoS has generalist jacks, with minor 'speed' or 'power' buffs, where accuracy is what they're really lacking. That and we don't have easy access to cheap heavies.



This is the best jack heavy list I could come up with:

Adeptis Rahn Shyeel
- Chimera
- 2 Manticores
2 Arcanists
Dawnguard Scyir
- 2 Griffons
Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios
2 House Shyeel Magisters

35pts. Would be... interesting.

[Jake the Dog]

Hey, the Ret boards aren't very active when compared to others. Got to spack up discussion ;)

[Adept Rahn]

[QUOTE=Cotillion989;272198]Well the main issues with running jack heavy are that the majority of our warcasters are very focus selfish.

This is so very true.
Vyros and Rahn are the best for jacks in my eyes.
Rahn does need that focus tho to get the best from him so hes rather greed.
I have been trying myself to get a good Vyros list on the go with a min of 3
Jacks at 35 but its not easy to do if you want it all to work well.
Mind you even 3 jacks is not alot and i would love to find away to get in
and still keep the army competitive.

[hausdorff space]

^just take all light jacks.
6 Griffons is only 24pts - WJpts.

[Adept Rahn]

^just take all light jacks.
6 Griffons is only 24pts - WJpts.

That would be great to see.

[Curved]

I agree, Retribution has plenty of goodies for myrmidon-heavy lists.

Hydra can store focus and can generate their own focus
3 Marshal units with various synergies
Arcanists are awesome

Myself, in my next game, I'm going to try a 35 pt Garryth list with 2 Hydras, a Chimera, 2 arcanists, 2 ghost snipers, and 2 stormfall units. Versus big stuff, it'd be about drawing them away one at a time with the Chimera, and then smashing them to pulp with the hydras. Versus troopies, it'd be about the stormfalls blowing stuff up.

[hausdorff space]

...This bring up an interesting point of what do we consider to be jack heavy?

[Jake the Dog]

This bring up an interesting point of what do we consider to be jack heavy?

In my book it is at 35pts 2 Heavies and 2 lights, or 3 Heavies. Anything less isn't jack heavy jacks*.



* Opinion, not fact

[Curved]

Though I was mainly talking about the utility of the Hydra, in my particular example, replacing the two ghost snipers and the chimera with a phoenix would be a quick effective fix for that equation.

edit: I was thinking about it, and RoS jacks are more expensive than other factions'. Other factions can get a heavy for 6 points, right?

[Cotillion989]

I can see a vyros T2 list with:

Vyros
Griffin
Griffin
Griffin
Griffin

Max Sents w/UA
Max Sents w/UA
Marshalled Griffin
Arcanist

Being quite interesting...

[Cotillion989]

edit: I was thinking about it, and RoS jacks are more expensive than other factions'. Other factions can get a heavy for 6 points, right?

Some can. We don't have a cheap heavy yet. However, seems to be a theme that our jacks have a ton of abilities, so I think its probably more likely the next 6 pt jack we get will be another crazy light than some barebones Heavy.

[Chainblast yer face!]

I think RoS can do lots'o'jacks pretty well. With the Arcinist and tons of Jack marshell options it's easy to toss Griff's all over the board. A list I've been thinking about lately is:

35pts
Vyros +6
Manti -8
Manti -8
Pheonix -10

Sents with UA -9
Griff -4

Arcinist -1
Arcinist -1

Use the Marshelled Griff by putting a free focus on it with an arc, then move the arc near the other heavies. Then drive the Griff to make an advance out of activation moving 6. Activate the Griff, use the focus to run 16 and engage a ranged unit or tie up something for a turn, maybe 2. you could even slap a resolve spell on him before he goes into the wil blue yonder to help him survive with an Arm of 20. Or keep him with Vyros, use mobility, use fleet and then run 20. With reach the range on him is really 26" with the sents and 22" with Vyros. The goal is to get one Manti to trample on a feat turn, and have the Sents kill as much as they can to give the other Jacks enough focus to take shots at the caster for the win. You could even use a min Sents unit to gain a solo something or other.

[FranzGrenstein]

Here is the problem with Vyros running a lot of jacks, you are usually going to upkeep IR, leaving him with 5 focus, and mobility cost 2.

That leaves Big V with 3 focus to distribute to however jack he has to trigger a charge and give him swings if he charges. This can be mitigated for one turn with his feat, but you are relying on the enemy to supply your focus (bad rolling, low model count and tough to a degree can put the kibosh on this.) The other way is arcanist; problem with him is he can only give a jack one focus and that’s all the jack is going to get that turn, except on Big V’s feat turn. Hydra can also mitigate the problem with their focus battery; problem with them is they are not heavy hitters. I charged a jughead with a hydra and pretty much gave it a massage with 5 swings (granted my dice rolling was meh, I have had similar results in the past.)

This leaves out if you want to use his AOE or offensive spells. If memory serves, the AOE costs 3 so that’s 4 focus if you want to hit. The other one costs 2 so 3 to hit, and 4 to attempt to have a secondary affect on jacks. So they are a wash either way. Then again I consider these the 25% spells of Vyros, he is not a spell slinger he’s a face breaker.

This is why the griff is so good with Vyros it can take advantage of Big V’s passive abilities without the use of mobility, thus saving that focus.