Brandubh
12-05-2009, 07:36 PM
Admittedly, I'm not the greatest player, I don't build competitive lists and I don't have a ton of time to test a bunch of games. So I decided to focus on testing out a small number of units very thoroughly. My opponent (my wife) is still relatively new to the game (as am I) but I've been careful to help her play and give her advice as the game goes on so that she can play more competitively. I don't think there are any major anomalies here. If there are (or if I'm doing something wrong) please let me know.
I've been working on doing some testing based on maintaining as many controls as possible. It's not the most exciting thing on earth, but it gives a fairly decent view of units without too many variables.
For all games of the same points level, the terrain will remain the same. I have two control lists prepared. Each army will be tested with each control list once.
I'm only focusing on units that I have significant experience using and that I plan on continuing using for Mk. II. I'm simply not interested in constructs, sentry stones or the druid units at this point...not enough to really test them thoroughly, that is.
Here are my 15 point control lists:
Control List A: Ashlynn, Nomad, Bokur, Versh, Pendrake, Lanyssa, Precursor Knights (6).
Control List B: eMadrak, Impalers x 2, Champions (5).
Here are my 15 point test lists:
Test lists A: pKrueger, Shadowhorn Satyr, Gnarlhorn Satyr, Wolves of Orboros (6), War Wolf.
Test lists B: eKrueger, Shadowhorn Satyr, Gnarlhorn Satyr, Wolves of Orboros (6), War Wolf.
Here are my 35 point control lists:
Control List C: eMadrak, Pyre Troll, Impaler x2, Champions (5), Brun & Lug, Pendrake, Lanyssa.
Control List D: eKaya, Laris, Feral Warpwolf x 2, Pureblood, Lanyssa, Shifting Stones, Pendrake.
Here are my 35 point test lists:
Test lists C & C': p/e Krueger, Shadowhorn Satyr, Gnarlhorn Satyr x2, Lord of the Feast, Reeves of Orboros (10), War Wolf x3.
Test lists D & D': p/e Krueger, Shadowhorn Satyr, Gnarlhorn Satyr x2, Lord of the Feast, Wolves of Orboros (10) & Unit Attachment, Morraig.
Test lists E & E': p/e Krueger, Shadowhorn Satyr, Gnarlhorn Satyr x2, Lord of the Feast, Morraig, War Wolf x2, Wolves of Orboros (10).
Test lists F & F': p/e Krueger, Shadowhorn Satyr, Gnarlhorn Satyr x2, Lord of the Feast, Morraig, War Wolf x2, Wolves of Orboros (6) & Unit Attachment.
Test Game #1
Control List A vs Test List A. Mercenary win with a caster kill. Overall, I was pleased with the way everything ran in spite of losing. I didn't get any slams with my Satyrs, which hurt. That was mainly the fault of getting second turn and playing on an abbreviated table. Given a little more space, I may have been able to set something up.
WoO with Lightning Tendrils is simply amazing...especially when attacking closely packed infantry while staying back with your reach weapons. I'm really digging the Satyrs having three base weapons. It really frees you up to be able to focus on boosting to-hit rolls (which they need against non-jacks) and damage rolls against jacks. Krueger did fairly well. I really think Sky Borne should be an upkeep spell. It's a very useful spell but too expensive to sustain every turn while going offensive.
Test Game #2
Control List A vs Test List B: Circle win with caster kill. Things went decently with my Gnarlhorn killing the Nomad very early. I really, really love the three weapons on the Gnarlhorn and Shadowhorn. In the end, Krueger used Wind Blown and his flight to position himself right in the middle of the enemy force then popped his feat. This pushed everyone back, out of combat and opened the lane for a Gnarlhorn assassination run.
I think that Windblown + Gallows + Bounding is a great combo. I also really think that the Satyrs are amazing with their attacks. Being able to trounce most anything by just boosting to-hit rolls is great.
Test Game #3
Control List B vs Test List B: Circle win with caster kill. This game was epic! First let me say that Troll lists are hardcore. eMadrak is a tank. I used Gallows + Wind Blown + Bounding to try to pound on an Impaler and failed. The Champions trounced my Wolves of Orboros. In return, I hopped the Shadowhorn over to Madrak and got three decent hits on him. He passed some damage off and ended up with about half his health. Meanwhile, Krueger hid behind a rock and hoped that his Satyrs would be alive the next turn. They weren't. The Impalers doubled up on the Gnarlhorn. Madrak killed the War Wolf, then the Satyr and was left without anything else to kill but without any fury. Krueger was left with nothing except 7 fury. He popped around the corner and used Sustained Assault to pound on Madrak with three boosted Lightning attacks.
I was really sweating this game. Trolls are very tough. The fact that I had nothing left was indicative of the toughness of the Trolls. Had I been able to set up slams, things would have gone much differently. But it speaks to the fragility of our units. I don't think anything was unbalanced, though.
Test Game #4
Control List B vs Test List A: Troll win. This was a fairly straightforward game. I did a slightly better job as setting up charge lanes but pKrueger can't really take down heavy infantry like Champions. So he spent the game trying (and failing) to damage ARM18 models with a P+S10 unboostable attack. In typical Madrak fashion, the endgame consisted of the Trolls deciding that they had been losing long enough and steam rolling to my caster.
Thoughts:
Small Games
My concern was that small games would result in our faction being weaker. If I think about a 0 point game being Ashlynn + Nomad or eMadrak + Pyre Troll or Krueger + Woldwyrd, I really get worried that we're at a disadvantage off the bat. But for three points, the playing field quickly becomes leveled. In fact, I'd venture to say that we're pretty well off in small games.
Gnarlhorn Satyr
I really liked this model in Mk I. In Mk II, this is going to be my go-to model. You can have your Feral Warpwolves or your Goraxes. I'll take my 8 point steam engine. His P+S 15 slam is simply out of this world. At 35 points, I'm going to start using Virility + Tendrils to push him way into the enemy and then unleash a bunch of lightning. We'll see how it works.
Shadowhorn Satyr
This model is very, very squishy. I tend to find that it makes a great distraction or counter-attack model. However, I can't seem to make him very offensive. His abilities, though, are very well suited for counter-attack. I park him next to my caster, keep the fury light, and hope that someone charges him.
Test Game #5
Control List C vs. Test List D: Circle win. Wow. 35 points games after playing so many 15's seem really big. I thought I had this game sewn up early but those freaking Trolls just refused to die. Finally, when I had eliminated everything but the mercenaries and one Pyre Troll, Madrak charged my Gnarlhorn, killed it, spent a blood token to move forward (engaging my Shadowhorn and Krueger) popped his feat, attacked everything in melee, killed the Shadowhorn (grabbing another blood token) then boosted against Krueger. He critical hit me and I thought it was over. Then the boosted damage roll was botched and Madrak was left in melee with Krueger. I spent all seven Fury on either boosting or extra attacks. I ended up killing him with one fury left (saving in case of Tough).
I must say that I really, really enjoy playing against the Madrak list. I love the way you can think you've got the game wrapped up and, all of the sudden, Madrak turns it around. I need to be more aggressive with Morraig. He's much better than I play him to be. The Wolves didn't do a whole lot, but that's okay because they ended up anchoring my right flank as the Minions tried to fight through them. That bought time for the rest of my force to handle the trolls. My 8 point WoO unit tied up 14 points of models the whole game. Oh, and I forgot to get the Lord of the Feast out for this game. :( Maybe next time.
I've been working on doing some testing based on maintaining as many controls as possible. It's not the most exciting thing on earth, but it gives a fairly decent view of units without too many variables.
For all games of the same points level, the terrain will remain the same. I have two control lists prepared. Each army will be tested with each control list once.
I'm only focusing on units that I have significant experience using and that I plan on continuing using for Mk. II. I'm simply not interested in constructs, sentry stones or the druid units at this point...not enough to really test them thoroughly, that is.
Here are my 15 point control lists:
Control List A: Ashlynn, Nomad, Bokur, Versh, Pendrake, Lanyssa, Precursor Knights (6).
Control List B: eMadrak, Impalers x 2, Champions (5).
Here are my 15 point test lists:
Test lists A: pKrueger, Shadowhorn Satyr, Gnarlhorn Satyr, Wolves of Orboros (6), War Wolf.
Test lists B: eKrueger, Shadowhorn Satyr, Gnarlhorn Satyr, Wolves of Orboros (6), War Wolf.
Here are my 35 point control lists:
Control List C: eMadrak, Pyre Troll, Impaler x2, Champions (5), Brun & Lug, Pendrake, Lanyssa.
Control List D: eKaya, Laris, Feral Warpwolf x 2, Pureblood, Lanyssa, Shifting Stones, Pendrake.
Here are my 35 point test lists:
Test lists C & C': p/e Krueger, Shadowhorn Satyr, Gnarlhorn Satyr x2, Lord of the Feast, Reeves of Orboros (10), War Wolf x3.
Test lists D & D': p/e Krueger, Shadowhorn Satyr, Gnarlhorn Satyr x2, Lord of the Feast, Wolves of Orboros (10) & Unit Attachment, Morraig.
Test lists E & E': p/e Krueger, Shadowhorn Satyr, Gnarlhorn Satyr x2, Lord of the Feast, Morraig, War Wolf x2, Wolves of Orboros (10).
Test lists F & F': p/e Krueger, Shadowhorn Satyr, Gnarlhorn Satyr x2, Lord of the Feast, Morraig, War Wolf x2, Wolves of Orboros (6) & Unit Attachment.
Test Game #1
Control List A vs Test List A. Mercenary win with a caster kill. Overall, I was pleased with the way everything ran in spite of losing. I didn't get any slams with my Satyrs, which hurt. That was mainly the fault of getting second turn and playing on an abbreviated table. Given a little more space, I may have been able to set something up.
WoO with Lightning Tendrils is simply amazing...especially when attacking closely packed infantry while staying back with your reach weapons. I'm really digging the Satyrs having three base weapons. It really frees you up to be able to focus on boosting to-hit rolls (which they need against non-jacks) and damage rolls against jacks. Krueger did fairly well. I really think Sky Borne should be an upkeep spell. It's a very useful spell but too expensive to sustain every turn while going offensive.
Test Game #2
Control List A vs Test List B: Circle win with caster kill. Things went decently with my Gnarlhorn killing the Nomad very early. I really, really love the three weapons on the Gnarlhorn and Shadowhorn. In the end, Krueger used Wind Blown and his flight to position himself right in the middle of the enemy force then popped his feat. This pushed everyone back, out of combat and opened the lane for a Gnarlhorn assassination run.
I think that Windblown + Gallows + Bounding is a great combo. I also really think that the Satyrs are amazing with their attacks. Being able to trounce most anything by just boosting to-hit rolls is great.
Test Game #3
Control List B vs Test List B: Circle win with caster kill. This game was epic! First let me say that Troll lists are hardcore. eMadrak is a tank. I used Gallows + Wind Blown + Bounding to try to pound on an Impaler and failed. The Champions trounced my Wolves of Orboros. In return, I hopped the Shadowhorn over to Madrak and got three decent hits on him. He passed some damage off and ended up with about half his health. Meanwhile, Krueger hid behind a rock and hoped that his Satyrs would be alive the next turn. They weren't. The Impalers doubled up on the Gnarlhorn. Madrak killed the War Wolf, then the Satyr and was left without anything else to kill but without any fury. Krueger was left with nothing except 7 fury. He popped around the corner and used Sustained Assault to pound on Madrak with three boosted Lightning attacks.
I was really sweating this game. Trolls are very tough. The fact that I had nothing left was indicative of the toughness of the Trolls. Had I been able to set up slams, things would have gone much differently. But it speaks to the fragility of our units. I don't think anything was unbalanced, though.
Test Game #4
Control List B vs Test List A: Troll win. This was a fairly straightforward game. I did a slightly better job as setting up charge lanes but pKrueger can't really take down heavy infantry like Champions. So he spent the game trying (and failing) to damage ARM18 models with a P+S10 unboostable attack. In typical Madrak fashion, the endgame consisted of the Trolls deciding that they had been losing long enough and steam rolling to my caster.
Thoughts:
Small Games
My concern was that small games would result in our faction being weaker. If I think about a 0 point game being Ashlynn + Nomad or eMadrak + Pyre Troll or Krueger + Woldwyrd, I really get worried that we're at a disadvantage off the bat. But for three points, the playing field quickly becomes leveled. In fact, I'd venture to say that we're pretty well off in small games.
Gnarlhorn Satyr
I really liked this model in Mk I. In Mk II, this is going to be my go-to model. You can have your Feral Warpwolves or your Goraxes. I'll take my 8 point steam engine. His P+S 15 slam is simply out of this world. At 35 points, I'm going to start using Virility + Tendrils to push him way into the enemy and then unleash a bunch of lightning. We'll see how it works.
Shadowhorn Satyr
This model is very, very squishy. I tend to find that it makes a great distraction or counter-attack model. However, I can't seem to make him very offensive. His abilities, though, are very well suited for counter-attack. I park him next to my caster, keep the fury light, and hope that someone charges him.
Test Game #5
Control List C vs. Test List D: Circle win. Wow. 35 points games after playing so many 15's seem really big. I thought I had this game sewn up early but those freaking Trolls just refused to die. Finally, when I had eliminated everything but the mercenaries and one Pyre Troll, Madrak charged my Gnarlhorn, killed it, spent a blood token to move forward (engaging my Shadowhorn and Krueger) popped his feat, attacked everything in melee, killed the Shadowhorn (grabbing another blood token) then boosted against Krueger. He critical hit me and I thought it was over. Then the boosted damage roll was botched and Madrak was left in melee with Krueger. I spent all seven Fury on either boosting or extra attacks. I ended up killing him with one fury left (saving in case of Tough).
I must say that I really, really enjoy playing against the Madrak list. I love the way you can think you've got the game wrapped up and, all of the sudden, Madrak turns it around. I need to be more aggressive with Morraig. He's much better than I play him to be. The Wolves didn't do a whole lot, but that's okay because they ended up anchoring my right flank as the Minions tried to fight through them. That bought time for the rest of my force to handle the trolls. My 8 point WoO unit tied up 14 points of models the whole game. Oh, and I forgot to get the Lord of the Feast out for this game. :( Maybe next time.