Good Models for a Borka AND an Epic Doomy list... (?)

[Kyuss]

Watcha,

I really would like a change from a Circle, and another army to train people in the ways of PP. Really like Borka and E-Doomy for the fluff, want to run decent lists (subject to final confirmations), BUT.... don't want to buy lots of different models.

Hence, here are my first stabs at 50 pt lists. There only picked because I think these models go together, but also look cool... (?)

Borka Kegslayer
Dire Troll Mauler
Earthborn Dire Troll
Krielstone Bearer and 5 Stone Scribes
Krielstone Stone Scribe Elder
Trollkin Champions (Leader and 2 Grunts)
Trollkin Fennblades (Leader and 9 Grunts)
Trollkin Long Riders (Leader and 2 Grunts)
Horthol, Long Rider Champion
Troll Whelps
Trollkin Champion Hero

Epic - Hoarluk Doomshaper, Rage of Dhunia
Dire Troll Mauler
Mulg the Ancient
Krielstone Bearer and 5 Stone Scribes
Krielstone Stone Scribe Elder
Trollkin Champions (Leader and 2 Grunts)
Trollkin Fennblades (Leader and 9 Grunts)
Trollkin Long Riders (Leader and 2 Grunts)
Horthol, Long Rider Champion
Trollkin Champion Hero

Thoughts?

[Ravir]

The Fell Caller is just TOO GOOD to leave out of most infantry lists. +2 MAT or Pathfinder to any warlock or warrior unit, or the ability to stand up kd'd models (including beasts) outside of activation. The quick way to fit him in would be trade the Mauler for an Axer + Fell Caller. Also, Doomie does better with tons of beasts, at least 4. You might find a more cross-list compatibility with Borka/Grissel or Borka/Madrak.

[amphoterik]

Out of curiousity, why is eDoomy good to run with so many beasts? Besides the free animus and the feat, what benefit do you get from having many beasts as opposed to infantry?

[Hatred]

Here is a 50pt Borka list I ran in a tournament recently. It did quite well my only regret is not using this list more instead of my Gim list.

Borka Kegslayer
Troll Bouncer
Mulg the Ancient
Kriel Warriors (Leader and 9 Grunts)
2 Kriel Warrior Caber Thrower
Kriel Warrior Standard Bearer & Piper
Krielstone Bearer and 5 Stone Scribes
Krielstone Stone Scribe Elder
Trollkin Long Riders (Leader and 4 Grunts)
Fell Caller Hero
Horthol, Long Rider Champion
Lanyssa Ryssyll, Nyss Sorceress
Stone Scibe Chronicler

Here is a 50pt Borka list I am working on using.
Borka Kegslayer
Troll Impaler
Dire Troll Bomber
Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (Cylena and 9 Grunts)
Krielstone Bearer and 5 Stone Scribes
Krielstone Stone Scribe Elder
Trollkin Champions (Leader and 4 Grunts)
Trollkin Long Riders (Leader and 2 Grunts)
Fell Caller Hero
Horthol, Long Rider Champion

Iron Flesh on the Nyss Hunters makes them DEF 18.

As far as eDoomie he is not particular about what he brings just bring what you want to bring. Also a Fell Caller is a much better investment of 3 points than the Champion Hero is.

[Goris]

Out of curiousity, why is eDoomy good to run with so many beasts? Besides the free animus and the feat, what benefit do you get from having many beasts as opposed to infantry?

Wild Aggression gives any beast he wants auto boosted attack rolls and allows them to run, charge, slam or trample for free.

Refuge lets a beast make a full advance after it finishes it's combat action ignoring free strikes. So, basically it makes one beast light cav.

Primal shock is a Channeled spell which uses a beasts base str as the damage and can be Channeled through a beast. So with Mulg that's a 2 cost pow 13 spell that can be Channeled anywhere in his control. Did I say channeled? Cause it's f'ing awesome.

Goad allows eDoomy to force a beast to move 2" after killing something. More movement shenanigans? Yes please.

[Silopolis]

Goad: Picture this:

Doomy feats. Mulg (having set up a charge lane beforehand) charges for 10" + 2" Reach. With Wild Aggression, that's cost him zero Fury, so he still has 5.

Mulg splats his charge target (MAT 7 + 3d6 = hitting DEF 16 on average dice, and for P+S 19+3d6 damage, base). Mulg then is Goaded for 2" (1 Fury on Mulg). He can then attack anything within 2". Attack rolls are boosted, and thus no need to force. P+S 17 Meaty Fist splats something else. Doomy Goads him AGAIN (Fury #2). Another 2". Buy an attack (putting the third Fury point on Mulg), splat the next guy. Goad AGAIN (#4). Buy another attack (Fury #5). If that last target lived (somehow), then you get another free MAT 7, P+S 19 attack against that target.

And then, if anything is still alive, Doomy uses Primal Shock to nail a target within 8" of Mulg for a POW 13 hit. :)

That's assuming best case scenario, but if you send Mulg in after infantry, it's not that hard to imagine. Not only that, but he'll be snacking all the way in. It's also not assuming any other shenanigans (Mulg getting a Protective Fit movement to set up a charge, Mulg having been damaged and thus having a threat range of 14" instead of 12", Mulg having Rage (P+S 22), which Doomshaper could have cast on him for free, etc.). Also, it's assuming you didn't bring an Earthborn/Mauler/Axer who could get up to similar shenanigans, as well.


Refuge lets a beast make a full advance after it finishes it's combat action ignoring free strikes. So, basically it makes one beast light cav.

Better than that, even. Light cav aren't immune to Free Strikes; warbeasts with Refuge are. :)

[Hatred]

Primal shock is a Channeled spell which uses a beasts base str as the damage and can be Channeled through a beast. So with Mulg that's a 2 cost pow 13 spell that can be Channeled anywhere in his control. Did I say channeled? Cause it's f'ing awesome.



Except it isnt being channeled, channeling is the use of an arc node. Which there are no troll arc nodes. Also you may want to get your terminology correct so someone doesn't stop you from "channeling" when you are not channeling in the first place.

Primal Shock
Choose a friendly Faction warbeast in this modelʼs control area. Target an enemy model within 8˝ of the chosen warbeast and
make a magic attack against it. The chosen warbeast is the attackʼs point of origin. If the enemy model is hit, it suffers a damage
roll with a POW equal to the warbeastʼs base STR.

[WombatCowboy]

And then, if anything is still alive, Doomy uses Primal Shock to nail a target within 8" of Mulg for a POW 13 hit. :)


If Doomy feats first he won't be able to reactivate to shock something. Thats a small aside Silo has the general thing which is abuse goad. He has no buff for infantry is the biggest reason I think people run beast heavy. If you want to save money going with two more like minded casters would be more efficient (plus you don't have to spring for mulg than unless you want to). Borka and Grissel or either maddy would like your infantry much more than edoomy.

Just my .02$

[Goris]

Except it isnt being channeled, channeling is the use of an arc node. Which there are no troll arc nodes. Also you may want to get your terminology correct so someone doesn't stop you from "channeling" when you are not channeling in the first place.

Primal Shock
Choose a friendly Faction warbeast in this modelʼs control area. Target an enemy model within 8˝ of the chosen warbeast and
make a magic attack against it. The chosen warbeast is the attackʼs point of origin. If the enemy model is hit, it suffers a damage
roll with a POW equal to the warbeastʼs base STR.

Actually, the wording of the spell is such that it doesn't say it's channeled.... However, in the basic rules, this is still considering channeling the spell through a model. P 35 of the PDF. This also gives the quicks of the targeting for this ability. It's still considered channeling a spell through the beast.

[Silopolis]

Citation please? My PDF's page 35 is about recording damage, Disabled/Destroyed, Remove from Play, and Warlock Destruction. Since the card doesn't say "channel" I'd really like a rules quote or something to back this up.

EDIT: I've asked for clarification in this thread (http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?23252-Primal-Shock-Considered-channeling&p=343916#post343916).

Clarified: Since Primal Shock doesn't say that it's channeling, then it isn't channeling, and thus the beast can be in melee, etc.

[Runge]

Out of curiousity, why is eDoomy good to run with so many beasts? Besides the free animus and the feat, what benefit do you get from having many beasts as opposed to infantry?

The more beasts that you have activating on his feat turn the better. Three different beasts could threaten min. 11" charges from three different points. Also, the more heavies you have wading through enemy fodder, the more options you have for casting Primal Shock. But the higher number of beasts creates and allows the utilization of other synergies, like Charge of the Trolls. I haven't played him much, but based on what I've seen, I wouldn't run him with less than three beasts at 35 pts.

[Kyuss]

Thanks guys for the feedback.

Hatred - Thanks for the suggestions, and while its always tempting to take some anti dragon, I really try not to use mercenaries. Sorry, should have put this in my original post... *slaps head*.

Taking everything in, and put it in a big blender for EDoomy, would something like this be good?
Hoarluk Doomshaper, Rage of Dhunia
Dire Troll Mauler
Earthborn Dire Troll
Mulg the Ancient
Krielstone Bearer and 5 Stone Scribes
Krielstone Stone Scribe Elder
Trollkin Champions (Leader and 4 Grunts)
Trollkin Fennblades (Leader and 9 Grunts)
Troll Whelps

I've just found that only Everblight seem to have the tools to run four heavies at a time, but I hope this keeps to the Dire Troll theme at least! Are Welps really that good too allow you to run 4? Also, am I going to suffer badly by dropping the Long Riders?

I guess the only change I need to make to Borka is the Champion hero for a Fell Caller, so it reads like this...

Borka Kegslayer
Dire Troll Mauler
Earthborn Dire Troll
Krielstone Bearer and 5 Stone Scribes
Krielstone Stone Scribe Elder
Trollkin Champions (Leader and 2 Grunts)
Trollkin Fennblades (Leader and 9 Grunts)
Trollkin Long Riders (Leader and 2 Grunts)
Horthol, Long Rider Champion
Fell Caller Hero
Troll Whelps

Do you think these lists are ok now?