Collecting Cygnar vs. Retribution?

[Waaargh]

I have thought about starting up a second faction, and at the moment Cygnar and Retribution seems really interesting both. I'd like to command a force that will wear down the opponent with shooting, and when the lines lock have something to fight in melee with. I know Cygnar can do it, but at first glance Retribution seems to have that playstyle too.

Can anyone tell me what their respectively play styles are, and how they are different?

How mobile are the factions?

How do they do against Khador?

Do they have have ranged units with magic attacks, or access to multiple magic ranged attacks on models (I know of the whole gun mage thing)?


Thanks in advance.

[WarDog]

What do you usually play?

[Waaargh]

Trollbloods, so this should prove quite different :)

[megatron0]

well im a troll player and started up the retribution because i wanted to play something different. The best thing about the ret is they have such choice a force that you describe should be comprised of dawnguard with vyros or Rahn (2 heavy hitters) and just watch your elf army smash face! or if you want a speed army choose some mage hunters, with kaylessa. There are so many options in just one book

[DevonV]

I play Retribution, and I can say that while they'll never out-shoot Cygnar, they have relatively inexpensive heavy infantry. The Invictors in particular are the very epitome of "wear the opponent down, then engage". Under Ravyn (Snipe), Invictors can fire their first volley with a 23" total threat range, and at RAT 6 POW 12 they can actually hit and hurt things. Paired CRAs are a ridiculous RAT 8 POW 14, and they reroll the first miss with the UA. Their subsequent volleys have 19" total threat until the enemy closes to within 8.5", at which point they can charge. Or back up and keep shooting.

Houseguard lines can be effective as well, with a full unit of Riflemen shooting through a full unit of Halberdiers. These soldiers are individually less expensive, and all together give your opponent twice as many bodies to hack through.

Then there are the Manticores. Manticores are made of Awesome, and fueled with refined Win. These sturdy and inexpensive heavy warjacks, which require zero focus to make you opponent hate them and should always be taken in pairs, can change the flow of the game every turn by placing their Covering Fire templates. Every turn that you opponent cannot figure out how to charge you is another turn of shooting. You can even lay these on top of your own troops after they activate to deny your opponent the ability to even engage them without Reach weapons. Combined with Ravyn's Veil of Mists, you gain a considerable amount of board control, while still shooting the daylights out of things. In melee, a Manticore with three Focus points and an Arcanist within range can perform four POW 20 attacks. You can actually hurt a closed Devastator with that, and anything less is going to feel it. Against Cryx 'jacks you can go for their Combo Strike and boost hit and damage on a massive POW 25 hit. You can't exactly one-shot a Helljack, but you can mess them up so bad they won't bother you anymore.


To be fair, the Retribution's shooting has its flaws. Cygnar can still muster more bullets per point, and Cygnar has ways to diffuse Stealth at range. The Retribution's solution is to send someone out to beat the stealth thing with pointy sticks until it dies. Cygnar also has Chain Lightning which gives them options for killing dodgy and untargetable things. The Retribution lacks any really good offensive spells of the sort, and usually can't waste the Focus to cast the ones they do have.

[zee]

I mostly agree with the above.

Cygnar have decent mobility compared to some options out there, but Retribution are certainly far more mobile, sacrificing significant defensive stats.

Both seem to do a little bit of ranged and melee, but I'd give the edge to cygnar for the ability to brawl it out, especially with the 'jacks. If you like dangerous solos and assassination threats though, Retribution has some nasty ones.

[Drifter083]

I'm another retri player - converted from menoth. What is said above is a good breakdown. The reason to hit cygnar, however, is Jack flexibility. Retri has only 3 heavies and three lights, and no unique or character. For a player who likes jacks, this is actually kind of painful. Both armies play quite similar, but I think that the cygnar jacks take the cake.

[Solo]

I'm another retri player - converted from menoth. What is said above is a good breakdown. The reason to hit cygnar, however, is Jack flexibility. Retri has only 3 heavies and three lights, and no unique or character. For a player who likes jacks, this is actually kind of painful. Both armies play quite similar, but I think that the cygnar jacks take the cake.

Yep, and Cygnar also has more accurate Jacks. It seems that the standard Retribution chassis isn't quite as good as the ironclad for accuracy. MAT7 RAT6 is great :)

[TsavongLah]

Best comparison I've seen of Cygnar and Retribution is that Cygnar has some of the most ridiculously good casters in the game with decent to great units, whereas Retribution has a bunch of pretty wimpy casters with retardedly awesome units across the board.

And of course everyone who said that Cygnar has better 'jacks would probably be right, but that may change once Retribution starts to fill out their model selection.

[Waaargh]

Thanks for the replies, guys :)

And Retribution for mk II is found in NQ #25 and 26, right?

[megatron0]

Wimpy casters is abit of an understatement Rahn is superb

[Shinobiwolf1980]

Perhaps it is the people I play, but once you remove the stealth aspect and the fight becomes a stand up fight, Retribution become very flimsy. It strikes me that they have very average to above average stats, without having that final knockout punch. They run very well until they take a significant blow and then it seems to crumble around them.

Retribution have a ridiculous amount of stealth and their points cost for it is insanely cheap. Those ghost snipers are ridiculously good for 2 points and a pair of them can really stick it to an unprepared force. Eiryss is of course Eiryss and a rat 9 stealth unit is always fun to scare enemy pieces. That Mage Hunter Strike Force is scary to almost any Warcaster and quite versatile.

The shooting game between Cygnar and Retribution is very interesting. I agree that Cygnar tend to outshoot Retribution, but those wacky elves have some awesome tricks. They can be very scary to fight and I'm looking forward to seeing them expanded, but right now I'm sticking with Cygnar. Why? Well Cygnar has amazing warcasters and a brilliant selection of jacks both heavy and light. They handle the stand up fight far better than the elves, but have enough tricks to make your average Khadoran, Protectorate or Cryxian Warcaster check his/her tactics. Cygnar pack a lot of punch. Troops such as the Black 13th, Long Gunners, Arcane Tempest Gun Mages and Storm(blades, guards, smiths, lances) are just phenomenal. Sure we have very average units as well... eg the Sentinel, but most Cygnar stuff is good bang for buck.

So who would I recommend?
If you like conventional warfare, go with Cygnar.
If you like unconventional warfare (hit and fade, fast strike, assassination) then Retribution is the go.

[Waaargh]

I'd like to build a mobile force with units able to dominate the flanks through ranged attacks. Not by evaporating everything within range, but by moving to attack, and then shift position, when it get's too dangerous. When the flanks have been secured I can move on the center of the opponents battle line. The center may be able to hold off attackers or launch a counter attack. Any heavy warjacks will fit the bill I guess, perhaps supported by some infantry capable of overcoming what the ranged support units have weakened.

In case my opponent goes defensive I must be able to punish him for it.

A company of Gun Mages seem to fit the description of the flanking force, they lack the ability to traverse difficult terrain though. Maybe other units and models fits too.

[Keravin]

Thanks for the replies, guys :)

And Retribution for mk II is found in NQ #25 and 26, right?

Retribution for Mark II is found in their Faction book. Mark I Ret in the NQs.

[Waaargh]

Oh... and their book isn't out yet, correct?

[Marius]

Their book has been out for a couple of months now. It's the first MkII faction book, because Retribution were built for MkII from the ground up and then converted back to MkI for those who wanted to use them.

[Killionaire]

Ret really has one of two kill conditions right now that you can easily see coming.

1. Jack Ranged Fire. A Hydra, Manticore or Phoenix boosts a shot into your caster to kill them. Vyros, Kaelyssa, Rahn (after KD) all do this.
2. Mage Hunters with Rayvn. Under her feat, Mage Hunters fill you with bolts. If that fails, Destor Thanes.

If you can stop either of those, they're done. There isn't really a plan B besides 'defeat enemy army' or 'move jack to face' that other armies don't do anyway. While most other factions have multiple contingencies, this is what Ret does. Either Hydra fire, or Rayvn feat and ranged attacks.

[Keravin]

The games I've won using Retribution have done neither of those.