Top Ten Circle Priority Thread

[dkindt]

Due to the short Field Test timeline, I think that it is an unrealistic expectation to assume that the Development Team can 'fix' everything that every faction in Hordes 'needs fixed'. Therefore, I call upon the Circle Community to come together and decide which models need to be prioritized when the Development Team evaluates Circle of Orboros. Simply speaking, what are the Top Ten Models that you feel need addressed in Circle of Orboros?


So, I'll start us off! Here is the list as I see it:


Kromac ? He is a gigantic, shapeshifting turd. Complete overhaul needed.
Morvahna ? Too much focus on 'living' models. Spell list needs work.
Megalith ? By far the weakest of the character Heavies. Bring in line with the power level of the others. Fix Geomancy. Animus needs work.
Woldwarden ? Fix Geomancy. Animus needs work.
Pureblood ? No longer 'the leader of the pack'. Animus needs work.
Woldwatcher ? Animus needs work.
Reeves of Orboros ? Range is too short. Not comparable to other units of that price range.
Sentry Stone ? Stones not survivable enough. Need larger command area for the mannikins.
Shifting Stone ? Stones not survivable enough. Need to heal constructs.
Gorax ? Change animus. Hear me out! Rebalance warbeasts' P+S to accomodate. Let's get rid of our reliance on one model to make up for our lack of hitting power on a lot of our warbeasts.

[MeroTZ]

My biggest hope is that eKaya can come out of this with a bit of her hitting power back. I miss her being a viable assassin :(

[Scyldemort]

Kromac – He is a gigantic, shapeshifting turd. Complete overhaul needed.
Morvahna – Too much focus on 'living' models. Spell list needs work.
Megalith – By far the weakest of the character Heavies. Bring in line with the power level of the others. Fix Geomancy. Animus needs work.
Woldwarden – Fix Geomancy. Animus needs work.
Pureblood – No longer 'the leader of the pack'. Animus needs work.
Woldwatcher – Animus needs work.
Reeves of Orboros – Range is too short. Not comparable to other units of that price range.
Sentry Stone – Stones not survivable enough. Need larger command area for the mannikins.
Shifting Stone – Stones not survivable enough. Need to heal constructs.
Gorax – Change animus. Hear me out! Rebalance warbeasts' P+S to accomodate. Let's get rid of our reliance on one model to make up for our lack of hitting power on a lot of our warbeasts.



Megalith – Why would I ever field him? For less points, either of the Warpwolves is more useful.
Woldwarden – Same as Megalith. For equal points, I'd much rather have either of the Warpwolves. Hell, I'd rather have either of the *Satyrs*.
Reeves of Orboros – A stand still and shoot unit in an army that has no use for them whatever. Also overpriced.
Morvahna – She's like pKrueger, except worse in every way. Only reason to ever bother with her is when facing an army that is both living and immune to electricity.
Kromac – Why would I take this waste of space of a Warlock when I could get a warlock that actually, I don't know, DOES things, and doesn't just exist to serve as a fury battery?
Woldstalkers - A little bit too expensive for what they do, albeit better than Reeves.
Morraig - Needs to regain his synergy with War Wolves
Druids - Another point of MAT would make the attachment useful. Right now, it's two points on top of a seven point unit basically just to gain immunities. Another point of MAT would also go a long way towards justifying their 7 point cost.
eKaya - There's nothing she can do for a beast force that pKaya doesn't do better. Why would I take her?
Argus - Doppler Bark needs to work on more than just warbeasts.

[Mutton]

In terms of large fixes, no order

Kromac
Morvahna
Geomancy in general
Pureblood's animus
Woldwatcher
Reeves
Stone's survivability
WoO UA
War Wolves


Everything else just needs tweaks I feel.

[Talking Head]

I really would like to see Ancient Shroud on the shifting stones and sentry stone. 2-3 boxes on the shifting stones, 4-5 boxes on the sentry stone.

[wtfraven]

I just want stones(both), Reeves, War wolves, Geomancy, KROMAC.
Those are really the only glaring ones i feel but I havent tried Morvahna so I don't feel competent to comment here.

[Dantes]

Kromac ? He is a gigantic, shapeshifting turd. Complete overhaul needed.
Morvahna ? Too much focus on 'living' models. Spell list needs work.
Megalith ? By far the weakest of the character Heavies. Bring in line with the power level of the others. Fix Geomancy. Animus needs work.
Woldwarden ? Fix Geomancy. Animus needs work.
Pureblood ? No longer 'the leader of the pack'. Animus needs work.
Woldwatcher ? Animus needs work.
Reeves of Orboros ? Range is too short. Not comparable to other units of that price range.
Sentry Stone ? Stones not survivable enough. Need larger command area for the mannikins.
Shifting Stone ? Stones not survivable enough. Need to heal constructs.
Gorax ? Change animus. Hear me out! Rebalance warbeasts' P+S to accomodate. Let's get rid of our reliance on one model to make up for our lack of hitting power on a lot of our warbeasts.


IMO we have FAR too many units, warbeasts and abilities that only work aainst half the game. The fact that against a warmachine player I lose half of the stuff on my card because of the jacks and focus is not acceptable to me.

My take:
1- Sentry Stone : One Fury a turn is a killer for this model. It is weak and dies to a stiff breeze. CMD 8 is a must IMO. Changing so it goes up to 3 fury at the start of it's turn would be preferable.

2- Pureblood : An alpha that isn't an Alpha. It should be better then the Feral IMO. Give it back it's bite. Give it Reactive Warping and Leadership Warpwolves : Reactive Warping. A horde of ghostly Ferals is OP IMO and this gives them back thier signature ability. Up the cost to 10.

3 - Argus : Change the bark to work against any living model and not just the Warbeasts. Otherwise fine.

4 - Kromac : Alter his spell list to make him more workable outside of beast form. Alter his feat to deal D3 damage to any model that does not have focus or fury on it when he drains.

5 - Mohsar : Drop Dust to Dust for another 2 fury cost offensive. Change Sunhammer to do D3 where you pick the column.

6 - Reeves: Give them an ability to sac thier movement for either Double Shot or Snipe.

7 - Wolves of Orboros UA : Change the minifeat to give them Weaponmaster for a turn.

8 - Whitemane : Drop Tactician and gain leadership to either Blood Drinker or Overtake.

9 - War Wolf : Change it to a Reeves and Wolves weapon attachment similar to the Caber thrower, one point for each wolf in the WA.

That's my list thus far. I still have a few more model I want to test as well as a few possible fixes to playtest before I submit my feed back in it's entirety.

[LemmingJesus]

Let's get rid of our reliance on one model to make up for our lack of hitting power on a lot of our warbeasts.

Uh, what? Are you crazy? My warpwolf was ripping things apart. The gnarlhorn is a wrecking ball. We hit very hard, and our armor is terrible.

[dkindt]

Uh, what? Are you crazy? My warpwolf was ripping things apart. The gnarlhorn is a wrecking ball. We hit very hard, and our armor is terrible.

Every other faction has a heavy that is capable of hitting harder than our Feral Warpwolf. Both Mulg and the Carnivean have natural P+S 18. Molik Karn can combostrike himself a effective P+S 20. These armies also have multiple P+S 16+ heavies, while our only P+S 16+ are the warped for STR Feral, and Megalith (how many of you are going to play him as he stands right now). This doesn't even take into account the other armies that have great models with armor piercing.

I'm not saying that we are 'left in the dust' or 'completely unable to kill anything with ARM 20+ , but rather that we need a point or two of P+S on some of our heavies to 'catch up'.

[Mutton]

The Gnarlhorn is not a wrecking ball; he's a slammaster. You effectively use him to tie up a heavy away from your forces for a turn; unless you stack buffs on him he doesn't topple heavies by himself.

My list of top priority things: Teach Morraig about being "reliable." This means not missing a Seraph on the charge with flank then rolling a 10 on 5 dice for damage against a Carni when a 13 would kill it then let you cleave the seraph and the next turn rolling something like 23 on 5 dice when I didn't need it. It means being able to be counted on when I need something dead.

That said, Morraig is perfect; I never liked him much in mk1, even though I always ran a unit of WoO. Now though, he's a beautiful beatstick. With flank and a charge, doing 10-11 damage to a khadoran heavy...

[blue loki]

9 - War Wolf : Change it to a Reeves and Wolves weapon attachment similar to the Caber thrower, one point for each wolf in the WA.

Why? I can see very limited benefit to doing this. Yes, the War Wolves will then benefit from unit wide spells, but they will lose a lot of their flanking and pure speed ability by being restricted to being in formation. I think it is much better to leave them "off the leash" so to speak.

[Amarel]

Why? I can see very limited benefit to doing this. Yes, the War Wolves will then benefit from unit wide spells, but they will lose a lot of their flanking and pure speed ability by being restricted to being in formation. I think it is much better to leave them "off the leash" so to speak.
It would also remove Circle's single 1pt model unless you happen to take WoO or Reeves (I prefer to take neither - BBB all the way :)).

Aside from that I'm pretty much in accord with Mutton - with Stones (both types) and Morv at the top of my list.

[druidsandstuff]

IMO the biggest thing I am missing is the Druids devouring. With that gone i have to talk myself into putting them in any list and then they dont perform as well as I would like. Also there UA granting them all of those immunities is cool but i would prefer other abilities, not sure what, just something else.
That is the #1 thing I think needs to be fixed, will post more later have class to go to

[Scyldemort]

IMO the biggest thing I am missing is the Druids devouring. With that gone i have to talk myself into putting them in any list and then they dont perform as well as I would like. Also there UA granting them all of those immunities is cool but i would prefer other abilities, not sure what, just something else.
That is the #1 thing I think needs to be fixed, will post more later have class to go to

Devouring was broken, though. As they are, they're still an amazing unit. Counter-magic alone has won me games, you know, particularly against Cryx and Retribution.

[Loxam]

Ok here goes, the top 10 from me :)

1. eKaya - she needs some of her melee ability back, just a p+s 12 weapon doesn't cut it for the master assassin

2. Morvahna - nearly there, just needs something like 1 fury to bring a model back in command range.

3. Kromac - at the moment, unplayable for me. I was expecting brutality to be taken, but he has been overnerfed in most departments.

4. Kaya - She needs a couple of supporting spells I feel for her pack, maybe shadow gate more than once per turn?

5. Kreuger - just needs his +2 def/ +2 arm spell back, thats it.

6. eKreuger - Don't know where to start...he needs rethinking as he SHOULD be epic!

7. Warden/Megalith - Both need work, too many points for a spell hotswapper/ fury maxer. The stone changes help, but they are still overcosted for what they do.

8. Sentry Stone - overnerfed too much. Give stealth and put back to original solo rules for it instead of the unit rules, increase cmd range.

9. Mohsar - might be just me, but i don't 'get him' at all. If he is going to be this loner, he needs to have warmachine style soloing ability.

10. Infantry (ok im cheating ;):

* Reeves are useless when Nyss Hunters are the same points and better.
* Woldstalkers overpointed for what they do, *hope* max unit would make them awesome
* Wolves w/ UA - nearly there, just need to remove overtake and give granted gang - maybe a speed buff like before +2" on charge
* Bloodweavers - still do not get these guys, give them weaponmaster AND the additional dice spell?
* Bloodtrackers - just give them back bushwack, then they are perfect, or parry :)
* Druids - They need Force Barrier? (the immune to blast damage spell) - granted from UA, maybe 1pt mat increase
* Tharn Wolf Riders - seem ok, would be nice to see weaponmaster on melee attacks too
* Tharn Ravagers - maybe 1 pt in arm back would be nice

Thats it

[Nalik]

Here's my list, it's broader but shorter.

1: Every Warlock besides pKaya & pKrueger
2: All constucts except the Woldwyrd. (this includes both stones and Woldstalkers)
3: Anything with "of Orboros" besides Druids
4: Tharn Ravagers & Shaman

[wvieira422]

AS a player of a Construct themed army (Baldur/Krueger). I find the top ten of my needed changes are. These are most of the models i'm familiar with.

1. Megalith - Geomancy
2. Woldwarden - Geomancy, animus
3. Woldwatcher - +1 fury, Animus
4. Sentry Stones - Larger CMD, Ability to devour from friendly models, defenses vs RNG attacks
5. Shifting Stones - defeses vs RNG attacks, Heal Constucts (i know it was left out of the update but meant to be included)
6. Woldstalker unit - Needs it's defensive spell obscurity back, maybe gunfighter instead of zephyr(not entirly necessary though, zephyr is useful, move 3" and AIM!)
7. Druid Overseer - Week UA only good for the immunities, Battle wizard (whatever it's called) ability is only situationaly useful at the current MAT only truely useful on the charge.
8. Reeves - need some more range, and something else not sure what. (ie. More RAT or Camoflage something)
9. PKrueger - needs wind storm spell back, maybe Deceleration spell (Haley)
10. Tharn Ravagers - weeker with the lowered arm and no Camoflage. I think rulewise and fluffwise Blood Drinker ability would be great for this unit.

[Spooker]

For my $0.02 worth of input.

1: Kromac needs reworked. He is just not fun to use at all!
2: E-Kaya - I agree on the Assassin.
3: E-Kruger - He is okay. I just hate it when epics are weaker than
there origional version. I know that the word epic does not mean
epic, but still - after countless battles - he should be battle
hardened and more seasoned than his younger version.
4: Constructs {all but the WoldWyrd}. Seriously, why cant we have
a beatstick that is at least ps18 by itself? The Wardens are huge
with large Stone fists - They should crush things with every hit!
5: Reeves...nuff said! We all know what they need to be played.
6: Morvahna ..We are getting close. I hope that she goes Epic. And
I truly mean Epic soon!
7: Bloodtrackers..Okay
8: Ravagers..Okay
9: Druids... I disagree with Devouring being Broken! How many games
has this won most people? sure it was great, but broken?
not imho. Plus the UA really needs reworked. The unit just does
not work that well. I liked the +1 mat suggestion.
10: Morraig - okay
11: WoO - okay.
12: Bloodweavers..I have not used them, Bloodtrackers still work
for me just fine.
13: Megalith & Pureblood - Ouch! 1-alpha & 1-character beast = pew!
As a group, we have to protest to "PP". When facing an alpha
from any faction or a Character beast, those beasts shoulds be
be feared by all. Like Molik Kharn, or Mulg - Those beast will smash
anything in there path! Bring back the respect for these beasts!
14: Stones {Sentry & Shifting} Seriously why? How many national titles
has Circle won because these are broken? Ok -Sentry slight nerf,
but shifting Stones? Come-on.

I look at the other factions, and Trolls, Skorne, Legion all did quite well.
How about a little love for the Circle?
Again this is all my opinion, and it comes from actual playtesting.
But we really need some help to remain competitive.

Take care,

[Voltimor]

Maybe give eKaya a rule that she give gang to her warbeasts and her self and she gians flank when she is near a warbeast she becomes abit assasin agian with flank and gang bonus MAT 10 POW 14 with a addional damage die :)

Give Megalith Natural Power back.

Sentry Stone give it stealth or stone form (Wold Watcher) increase CMD.

Wardens let them cast spells and their animus with a discount -1 fury from spells and animus.

Maybe make Kromac Beast Form a beast budy he grants his warbeast few special things (something like eButcher Conferred Rage)


just few ideas :)

[ImpactVector]

AS a player of a Construct themed army (Baldur/Krueger). I find the top ten of my needed changes are. These are most of the models i'm familiar with.
Yeah, another construct list player here. Right now I don't see anything that the Baldur construct list does well. It can't kill hard targets and it can't kill mass troops. All it really does is stall a bit between the feat and the forest creation. And there's enough stuff that'll negate either that it just makes the whole thing kind of silly.

[Mutton]

On the War Wolf; idea Mindworm and I came up with last night. Make it a WA, Practiced Maneuvers and Man-sized. Even if you don't want to make it a WA, both those two would increase it's survivability enough to make it worthwhile.

[UnderWood]

1: kromac is a turd
2: reeves if they stay range 10 give them something that isn't double tap they just don't mesh with the rest of our army.
3: Watcher 3 fury
4: Geomancy to expensive to use effectivly
5: sentry stone to easily neutered accomplishes less than cheaper solo's
6: mohsars feat stops focus allocation
7: Ekruegur boring windblown and gallows are his only decent spells his feat is incredibly annoying to use needs a buff.
8: Megalith is not awesome he burns through his fury and is very limited by being a construct.
9: warwolves I have yet to find a reason to take them you don't take them with reeves because reeves are crap you don't take them with each other because they don't flank with each other you don't take them with morraig no flank you would only take them with WoO and I've yet to find a reason to do so :(

10: Morvahna let harvest take her over her fury limit.
11 WoO minifeat should give sprint not overtake


Ekaya has been fine for me so far in the games I've played I find her really fun now she lost her rediculous "oh hey our next to other models i'll kill you" thing. She is a truely brutal warbeast caster capable of making our warbeast do insane amounts of damage.

I in no way mourn her loss of assasination abilitys.

Some of the suggestions in this thread are really poor some of the changes you guys are suggesting would actually make our stuff worse and other suggestions show that you have not actually played with the models in question.

For example why would the druids need more MAT, if they can see a blackclad there MAT 7 which makes them on par with skilled melee fighters. The loss of the devouring isn't a big deal as the buff to force bolt is a huge deal granting them less damage but massive tactical field control and they are Mattack 9 if they can see a wayfarer.

Might I suggest people refrain from posting about things they have not played with yet I have already been surprised by things that turned out to be far better in MKII than I thought.

[nburner]

My list is short:

1) Kromac: it remain the only warlock with a feat which does absolutely nothing in warmachine ambient (impossible to stole focus point to warjacks).
2) shifting and sentry stones: absolutely need more survivability.
3) Wolfs of Orboros: need a little damage buff...
4) Geomancy: more playable (reduce someway the fury cost)

[zulu81]

Kromac - give kromac weapon master and I would play him in either form. Or I had a friend that suggested you trade Ravanger for Fury.
(Target friendly model/unit gains +3 to melee damage rolls but suffers ?1 DEF.)

[Mezzanine]

As an outsider I do find Circle highest priorities include its reliance on the Gorax for damage along with Kromac and Morvahna needing some reworking.

Anything that is too good?

[zulu81]

prehaps pKruger. His feat auto hitting can be pretty brutal. And does not have a dead spell on his entire list. He can help both infantry and warbeasts. It is mostly the feat that is brutal.