Most competative caster? [Archive] - Privateer Press Forums

SkinnyGuy

12-08-2009, 10:26 AM

Well there's not likely going to be one single best caster when you take into account different point size games and possibly scenario play. That said, eSkarre is definitely in the running in general. She's solid in general 35 pt-ish games, and her feat is useful for both very small games and to get to points in scenarios too. So I'd rate her as top all around caster in that regard.

Beyond that, Mort is really good too for caster kill. Maybe eAsphyxious, though I'm a little more unsure on him. He's a strong choice, but when you're talking about best of the best sometimes only "strong" isn't actually enough. nGoreshade has his stealth incorporeal list and is also strong in small point games, but is a bit of a one trick pony in both regards. You'll often either clearly win or clearly lose with him, which may be enough to pass by him for the most competitive caster.

On the flip side I can say I definitely feel nDeneghra is out of the running due to her node reliance. nSkarre I'd also mark off due to having to play so up front anymore...she got nothing but nerfs between the editions, so that should be of no surprise. And Terminus is ultimately just too big a bullseye.

Of those left, nAsphyxious feels like he lacks a little something, difficult to describe what it is exactly. eGoreshade doesn't feel like the greatest caster if for no other reason than the difficulty in playing him right. And the Coven have severe fragility and node reliance holding them back.

So I guess my top choices all things considered would be eSkarre, Mort, and eGaspy.

AndyFrazer

12-08-2009, 10:44 AM

Mind you, in a 15pt game, it's hard to deny eGorshade's free unit of Bane Thralls is hard to ignore! :D

Cambeul

12-08-2009, 11:12 AM

Mind you, in a 15pt game, it's hard to deny eGorshade's free unit of Bane Thralls is hard to ignore! :D

*cough*pGoreshade*cough*

GaspysInhaler

12-08-2009, 04:50 PM

eSkarre certainly has the best tool box. Jack moving spell, buffs, debuffs, defensive movement augment spell(admonition), and decent offensive spells. Seas of Fate is a great ability, along with her feat which I feel is one of the best in all of War Machine. Also upkeeps spells by cutting herself and then healing with necrosurgeon. Just a fantastic caster all around, and someone I take any time I don't know who I am facing.

I would put eGaspy in a close second place. His feat simply cannot be quantified. The fact that he can bring back character units like Tartarus for the curse, or the Withershadow Combine for dismantle, or Gerlak makes him worth his weight. He is also the most survivable caster we have, by far (Sorry Terminus fans). Decent offensive spells (wish he had hellfire, and wish excarnate was better), but Caustic Mist is where he really shines. It's only one point of corrosion damage....so cast it infront of your jack to block LOS, or simply walk your jack into it and take 1 point of corrosion damage, or cast it on it after it's activation (most Helljacks have DEF 13 base) to give it DEF 15 against shooting. Best part is, it is only 2 focus so you can cast it 3 times to make a wall of cloud effects against gunlines.

Of those left, nAsphyxious feels like he lacks a little something, difficult to describe what it is exactly.

My sentiments exactly. I personally feel it is his lack of jack augmenting spells. eSkarre has admonition, perdition, and deathward that are all exceptional when cast on/through the right helljack/bone chicken. pGaspy really only has scything touch to augment his jacks, and he is casting that on his infantry 80% of the time. The only jack I cast it on with him regularly is the Cankerworm. Cryx Jacks are known as "Glass Cannons" anyways....does he really need to make them an even bigger glass cannon with scything touch when they are honestly in desperate need of the higher ARM that eSkarre can provide?

He used to be our best "all-around" caster...but I think it is fairly obvious that eSkarre has stolen that mantle from him.

nGoreshade has his stealth incorporeal list and is also strong in small point games, but is a bit of a one trick pony in both regards. You'll often either clearly win or clearly lose with him, which may be enough to pass by him for the most competitive caster.

I also agree with this. I find nGoreshade to be frustrating/somewhat boring to play with because he does not have anything that is "game-changing/breaking" in his arsenal other than his solid feat.

His game plan is essentially "you can't do this". The denial game, while sometimes effective and frustrating to your opponent, can be easily circumvented and one dimensional for your own army. Not to mention he is still stuck in the same old problem of "do I soul gate/Shadowmancer? Or do I Mage Blight?"

Mage blight is a tremendous spell given his solid 14" control range...but you have to sacrifice his other spells to even pull it off, and even then your opponent can find a way around it by simply moving out of his control range.

The most frustrating game I've playing with him yet was where I was playing against a Karchev Jack Tow list. Basically Karchev cast Tow and upkept it the entire game. He would run around each turn and teleport his jacks wherever he went, and bombard me with behemoth mortars and other things, while the spriggan hit me with flares to remove stealth. It was my fault that I did not have a skarlock (hexblast) or the Combine to dispell upkeeps, but I had no idea I was facing this list. I had two options...I could dispel the upkeep with hex blast (in which case he would cast it again next turn), or I could cast mage blight...in which case he would simply upkeep the spell. The fact that nGoreshade can't do both is disappointing. If they would lower the damage and cost of Hex Blast, I would be very happy because honestly, who casts that spell for that damage?

Cambeul

12-08-2009, 04:56 PM

I would put eGaspy in a close second place. His feat simply cannot be quantified. The fact that he can bring back character units like Tartarus for the curse, or the Withershadow Combine for dismantle, or Gerlak makes him worth his weight. He is also the most survivable caster we have, by far (Sorry Terminus fans). Decent offensive spells (wish he had hellfire, and wish excarnate was better), but Caustic Mist is where he really shines. It's only one point of corrosion damage....so cast it infront of your jack to block LOS, or simply walk your jack into it and take 1 point of corrosion damage, or cast it on it after it's activation (most Helljacks have DEF 13 base) to give it DEF 15 against shooting. Best part is, it is only 2 focus so you can cast it 3 times to make a wall of cloud effects against gunlines.

I used eGaspy to charge into enemy lines (if it was safe of course) then pop out three Caustic Mists around him. If the unit moves it takes a free strike, if it stays it dies to Caustic Mist, if it did move out and cant shoot through the cloud. Plus you can gain Soul Tokens this way too. Pretty fun to play "Cat and Mouse" with people.

Terminus1114

12-08-2009, 06:05 PM

My vote goes to eDeneghra, she seems to be able to handle any situation well. As long as she has arcnodes to channel her spells and a good supporting army there is a strong chance of success with her.

wadders

12-09-2009, 01:12 AM

eDeneghra's feat is so strong. Being able to hold the enemy in place and create charge lanes (while dropping bile thrall sprays and bloat bombs) is just too good to ignore.

69Lazarus

12-09-2009, 03:27 AM

E-Denny is great for scenario play.

I think most of our casters can indeed be competitive.

I also agree with this. I find nGoreshade to be frustrating/somewhat boring to play with because he does not have anything that is "game-changing/breaking" in his arsenal other than his solid feat.

His game plan is essentially "you can't do this". The denial game, while sometimes effective and frustrating to your opponent, can be easily circumvented and one dimensional for your own army. Not to mention he is still stuck in the same old problem of "do I soul gate/Shadowmancer? Or do I Mage Blight?"

Mage blight is a tremendous spell given his solid 14" control range...but you have to sacrifice his other spells to even pull it off, and even then your opponent can find a way around it by simply moving out of his control range.

The most frustrating game I've playing with him yet was where I was playing against a Karchev Jack Tow list. Basically Karchev cast Tow and upkept it the entire game. He would run around each turn and teleport his jacks wherever he went, and bombard me with behemoth mortars and other things, while the spriggan hit me with flares to remove stealth. It was my fault that I did not have a skarlock (hexblast) or the Combine to dispell upkeeps, but I had no idea I was facing this list. I had two options...I could dispel the upkeep with hex blast (in which case he would cast it again next turn), or I could cast mage blight...in which case he would simply upkeep the spell. The fact that nGoreshade can't do both is disappointing. If they would lower the damage and cost of Hex Blast, I would be very happy because honestly, who casts that spell for that damage?

I've had a blast playing with him in MK II. The ability to do a Kaya yo-yo with one of your jacks each turn (for lowly cost of a thrall) makes grinding down the enemy quite fun. With shadowmancer and access to stealthed units it's easy to run a nearly all stealthed list with him.
It's great fun to go eat a few souls with the Deathjack and then yank him back into posistion to actually use that focus next turn.

I'd certainly consider taking the WSC with him. They also have stealth. :)

As to mageblight? I've yet to cast it in MK II

ResurrectioN

12-09-2009, 05:36 AM

eSkarre certainly has the best tool box. Jack moving spell, buffs, debuffs, defensive movement augment spell(admonition), and decent offensive spells. Seas of Fate is a great ability, along with her feat which I feel is one of the best in all of War Machine. Also upkeeps spells by cutting herself and then healing with necrosurgeon. Just a fantastic caster all around, and someone I take any time I don't know who I am facing.

She is good but there are some bad matchups for her, mainly feats, that shut her down so I wouldn't play with her in blind environment.
Thing that I like about her play stile, which is same as in mk1 but more effective due to shake off effects, is how blatant it is: "here comes DJ and you can't do anything about it". Not very cryxian thing to do so it is a nice change from all that sneaky assassinations. Also, that "hc DJ" style has served as a great board control tool - most of my games were finished within 5" or in opponent's deployment zone, meaning most of the board was mine.

I would put eGaspy in a close second place. His feat simply cannot be quantified. The fact that he can bring back character units like Tartarus for the curse, or the Withershadow Combine for dismantle, or Gerlak makes him worth his weight. He is also the most survivable caster we have, by far (Sorry Terminus fans). Decent offensive spells (wish he had hellfire, and wish excarnate was better), but Caustic Mist is where he really shines.

Agreed.

It's only one point of corrosion damage....so cast it infront of your jack to block LOS, or simply walk your jack into it and take 1 point of corrosion damage, or cast it on it after it's activation (most Helljacks have DEF 13 base) to give it DEF 15 against shooting. Best part is, it is only 2 focus so you can cast it 3 times to make a wall of cloud effects against gunlines.

What does your jack's defense matter?
You just put Mist over jack and it doesn't even suffer dmg.
Blocking ~11 inches of charge lanes for 1 wound models really saves lots of unlives. (How did I get 11 from 3x3" templates? You leave some space between which should be 1" minimally so small bases can't move through and if space is not directly on charge lane you can shift it bit left or right for more space)

My sentiments exactly. I personally feel it is his lack of jack augmenting spells. eSkarre has admonition, perdition, and deathward that are all exceptional when cast on/through the right helljack/bone chicken. pGaspy really only has scything touch to augment his jacks, and he is casting that on his infantry 80% of the time. The only jack I cast it on with him regularly is the Cankerworm. Cryx Jacks are known as "Glass Cannons" anyways....does he really need to make them an even bigger glass cannon with scything touch when they are honestly in desperate need of the higher ARM that eSkarre can provide?

He used to be our best "all-around" caster...but I think it is fairly obvious that eSkarre has stolen that mantle from him. [/B]

Maybe his problem is that he has no surprises.
Hellfire for lDEF/hARM. Breath for infantry, LOS block, hDEF/lARM targets. He can kill anything in melee, if things get personal, and has enough ARM to stay closer to the action so can start with fever nodes then other Cryx spell slingers. Yeah, he has all options covered so he is harder to shut down but lacks what caster that you've placed above him have: surprise buttsecks by stuff appearing out of nowhere.

eDanny- I've played few games with her and I still fail to see why wouldn't I just use her living version for any task.

69Lazarus

12-09-2009, 05:47 AM

eDanny- I've played few games with her and I still fail to see why wouldn't I just use her living version for any task.

Her edge over the prime version comes from the feat in scenario play. No movement is better than -2 SPD.

ResurrectioN

12-09-2009, 05:58 AM

Her edge over the prime version comes from the feat in scenario play. No movement is better than -2 SPD.

I agree on that part but everything else is worse.
Web of Shadow's effectiveness is directly proportional to amount of ranged and magic attack opponent has while The Withering affects those too and pDenny is better at assassination which is still alternative goal for wining scenario.

I'll have to test eDenny more but from letters and numbers she was better when she was alive.

69Lazarus

12-09-2009, 06:40 AM

They are better at different things. E-Denny was my go to scenario caster in MK I and will continue this role in MK II as far as I can see....

DerKaeptn

12-09-2009, 06:54 AM

Because I am used to have bad luck with rolling my dice I would vote for PSkarre to be Cryx most competative Caster.

Dark Guidance is great to bolster your whole Armies attacks.

Her Feat is great in offensive and defensive ways. Sacrifacial Strike is a good ranged option to kill something only vulnarable by magic.

Combined with a Satyxis - Unit you have perfect options to make a casterkill through the enemy warcasters battlegroup and each round you can raise your own focus amount by sacrificing a single trooper to a scarlock.

You can also kill almost every target as long as you get skarre into melee and there is no other cryx caster who can make better use of stalkers when you use your feat.

Blood Rain is great to kill ranks of enemy Infantry and Hellfire is good for tough targets.

BENDER

12-09-2009, 10:14 AM

At the minute this thread smacks of simply reading the cards and going COOOOOOL! ;)

I would suggest that rather than simply listing the stuff that makes them function well as warcasters in a vaccuum. That we look at the competition. Which of our casters, and their typical army builds has the least bad match ups and the most answers to the other competitive lists that other factions are bringing? What do our casters do better than the competition and what counters do they have for them? Do any of you have any info on what the likely meta will be for early MK2 competitive play? The first MK2 tournament I will be able to sample from is not until late january for me. But has anyone else experienced a MK2 tournament and what was typically brought?

blakeh1

12-09-2009, 11:11 AM

I think Epic Skarre is our toolbox caster. I cannot remember a game where I thought to myself this is a bad matchup for her.

A close second would probably be Deneghra as I rarely find something she can't handle. I have not played Epic Deneghra enough in MK II to have an opinion on her yet.

As far as my other regular casters, Terminus is great, but I have had some bad matchups (mostly against soul denial lists or armies with high DEF stuff)

Mortenebra - I don't run her often, but I remember being shut down by a Harbinger/Bastions/Seneschals/Errants list making it hard for me to actually kill anything to trigger overrun

Rave0183

12-09-2009, 11:31 AM

I'd give it up to Edenny or Eskarre. I'll jump on the bandwagon saying ESkarre is a swiss army knife of situations. She has a good offensive spell list, and defensive armor buff which is great. Honestly the caster hasn't changed much from Mk1, aside from the adition of Peridition... Thankk you Toruk!

This one spell has single handedly opened up her assasination potential, and without having to cast/upkeep seas of fate every turn, just made it better. She is good, and can adapt.

Edenny...Oh how I loathed you in mk1. Relying on failed command checks to make her shine really didnt appeal to me at all. So many models to use just to get 1 spell to work great. Although it was fun...but not competative. Mk2 comes along.... I love her as my own child. High Def models? Cool...Marked for death....High Armor? Awesome...curse of shadows... Infantry spam? yay for Hellmouth and Venom! Now before this newest incarnation of Edenny, I rarely used the nightmare. Just seemed a bit too fragile for how I use my jacks. For example the deathjack is my sledge hammer....the nighmare needed to be used as a scalpel...and I didn't do well with that concept. But now... Marked for Death + Potential Prey 2" + Pursuit. = Yay 19" Threat range Jack through anything! Plus a feat...that already mentioned...lets me get those bile thralls up in your face ready for a purge.

/vote Edenny

Deathraven

12-10-2009, 12:14 PM

I think this thread is a very good sign. If we can't agree which caster is best that means that they are pretty well balanced. :)

Sabin

12-10-2009, 02:28 PM

First Rate - Epic Skarre, Mortenebra, Epic Asphixious, Deneghra
Second Rate - Epic Deneghra, Terminus, Asphixious, Skarre
Third Rate - Goreshade, The Coven
Why bother? - Epic Goreshade

69Lazarus

12-10-2009, 03:17 PM

I think this thread is a very good sign. If we can't agree which caster is best that means that they are pretty well balanced.

Playstyle preference has something to do with it which is another reason we get different answers. Being able to use two lists also helps keep some casters "in" that might not make everyone's cut.

Why bother? - Epic Goreshade

Sadly, I think you're right. I can still win with him but feel I'm better served with other choices for competitive play.. I'll still play him for fun though which means it's not a complete watse. Love the model & fluff.

Sabin

12-10-2009, 04:48 PM

Playstyle preference has something to do with it which is another reason we get different answers. Being able to use two lists also helps keep some casters "in" that might not make everyone's cut.

Sadly, I think you're right. I can still win with him but feel I'm better served with other choices for competitive play.. I'll still play him for fun though which means it's not a complete watse. Love the model & fluff.

Love the model, love the fluff, have even found uses for him but really he is the Coven minus the cool stuff that makes them fieldable + a decent melee weapon.

2LiveIs2Die

12-11-2009, 04:33 AM

I have to go with barring epic Goreshade, all the casters are very good at different things. I find I don't even like to think about epic Goreshade, I like nothing about the model, or fluff.

My fall back caster use to be the (in mark uno) Coven. Due to the simple fact they could do so much in a scenario situation (placing buildings, making things miss, granting stealth to take control points, etc), and yes, ESkarre has a wide array of spells and can help jacks well, but she is not the best at any one thing. She just has a little of everything. The coven got better for me because of my play style. Some people might not like their old favorite caster anymore because of changes.
PSkarre is still one of the best casters in the game, twice over now, since both her feat and dark guidance are control area auras, neither are a pulse.
I don't see any casters as not being competitive. I do see that some have a better chance against random army xxx for playing in a tourney but if it's a 2 list tourney i dont see there being a problem at all. I play the models i want to play, i dont play any models because they are simply better game play wise, more so if i dont like them.

Long and the short of it, I think they are all competitive, some are just better at being all-around competitive, that is their specialty, but they aren't amazing at specific task x. And some casters are better at specific task x but are not very good all-around.

Sabin

12-11-2009, 05:02 AM

I miss imprison, I don't hate the Mk2 coven, they have their moments, sometimes though I sit there and wish that I could sacrifice almost anything of theirs to have imprison back.

69Lazarus

12-11-2009, 05:09 AM

Ghyrrshyld

12-11-2009, 05:59 AM

I never had much luck w/ Imprison so I don't miss it as much. Overall, I much prefer the way that Coven plays now and it was awesome to put them on the table without hearing the automatic groans associated with Stygian Abyss spam.

Can't wait to see what our new stuff will do.....
Considering that I had a mk II eHaley list shoot 2 pow 15 shots into my Deployment zone, both boosted to hit and kill one of my Arc Nodes before I could even move it, I think that the Coven was unfairly targted.

2LiveIs2Die

12-11-2009, 06:07 AM

I miss imprison, I don't hate the Mk2 coven, they have their moments, sometimes though I sit there and wish that I could sacrifice almost anything of theirs to have imprison back.
I prefer the aoe damage spell to imprison for board control, honestly.

I never had much luck w/ Imprison so I don't miss it as much. Overall, I much prefer the way that Coven plays now and it was awesome to put them on the table without hearing the automatic groans associated with Stygian Abyss spam.

Can't wait to see what our new stuff will do.....
I've played one game with them, and won with out any trouble. I lost a good deal of stuff but was never uncomfortable.
I did a 35pt v Menoth, and minus a few slight misplays due to rules changes, i did fine.

Ghyrrshyld

12-11-2009, 06:56 AM

I prefer the aoe damage spell to imprison for board control, honestly.
What AOE damage spell?

Archnomad

12-11-2009, 08:32 AM

Personally I feel, jack heavy, the best caster is eSkarre. Infantry heavy, it goes to gaspy (bringing back gerlak, tarty, pistol wraiths, combine etc on feat turn... ouch).

To testify this, I had my Death Warded DJ take a beating from an Avatar and Harbinger. It lived, but only due to be carefully navigating about the weapon systems.

Whereas with gaspys, once on a feat turn I brought back tarty, gerlak and 8 bane knights. Gerlak charged into the infantry surrounding the enemy caster (think it was regular gaspy) and proceeded to, one by one, hack them to shreds, clearing space for my banes and tarty to pack in. Then they all charged in and gubbed him.

It's a fantastic feat.

For me, it's one of these two. Morty is nice, but I feel she's missing a little something. Something defensive. Deneghra is nice, but I don't like taking too many arc nodes.

69Lazarus

12-11-2009, 09:57 AM

Considering that I had a mk II eHaley list shoot 2 pow 15 shots into my Deployment zone, both boosted to hit and kill one of my Arc Nodes before I could even move it, I think that the Coven was unfairly targted.

We're comparing this to SAx3 with 2 re-rolls? ok.

DeathMagnetic

12-11-2009, 10:51 AM

First Rate - Epic Skarre, Mortenebra, Epic Asphixious, Deneghra
Second Rate - Epic Deneghra, Terminus, Asphixious, Skarre
Third Rate - Goreshade, The Coven
Why bother? - Epic Goreshade

^This. E-Gore is just a tragedy, he really needs work.

Ghyrrshyld

12-11-2009, 11:46 AM

We're comparing this to SAx3 with 2 re-rolls? ok.
I think a devastating first strike (and second strike, frankly)with 2x boosted to hit pow 15 attacks before I even get to move my models is fairly comprable to having to set up a 3x SA in MK II with as expensive as the nodes are.

Basically, PP went too far with the Coven, and a little less hamhandedness would have gone a long way.

69Lazarus

12-11-2009, 12:06 PM

I think a devastating first strike (and second strike, frankly)with 2x boosted to hit pow 15 attacks before I even get to move my models is fairly comprable to having to set up a 3x SA in MK II with as expensive as the nodes are.

Assuming Haley went first we've got 10" deploy, 5" move, TK for 2" and TA for 2" + 20" range (with snipe from the officer that marshals it), boost to hit and a second boost to hit from Arlan's focus he gave it. Is that about right? So, basically your opponent can hit the front 1" of your deployment zone and you put your arcnode all the way up front knowing you were not going first? Also, that node has 20 boxes which means he also rolled pretty well considering no boosted damage.

I agree that it is powerfull, but still do not think it compares to the sheer brutaility that SAx3 with 2 re-rolls is (and old superior crit ability).

Stealth hoses Cygnar bad but a node can run right up and deliver it's payload anyways.

Pendargon

12-11-2009, 03:10 PM

Isn't hitting enemy deployment turn 1 something PP tried to cut out of the game?
cmon...

69Lazarus

12-11-2009, 03:18 PM

I don't view 1" into the deployment as a big deal. If it catches you it means you were careless.

They have cut down threat ranges for everyone considerably but I don't find it odd that the premiere ranged faction in the game can do something like this.

This is another reason I support Necrotechs though (or my 6 Khador Mechanics lol etc.)

Tuckers

12-11-2009, 03:31 PM

Honestly, if I am unsure of what I am up against, I fall back onto either Asphyxious or Denegrah (both epic and normal). I feel like they are both like well made swiss army knife. Easy to use (generally) but with enough tools to get any job done.

Sabin

12-11-2009, 04:57 PM

First turn strike isn't a huge issue, not a lot of models can do it and anyone can if they go second in their first turn. I love the addition of viel of mists to the coven, that is what makes them decent, I was ready to abandon them during the field test.

69Lazarus

12-12-2009, 02:47 AM

Yes, Veil does help them. (I like protecting my Pistol Wraith with it)

Rave0183

12-12-2009, 08:11 AM

Imprison was fun...annoying. But with the release of Aiyanna & Holt, strangeways, and all the other sneaky gits that make attacks magic, it lost it's effectivness. And lets be honest, in MK2 where lots of things have magic weapons now...it would be a waste of focus.

Personally, what i miss more than anything else is not the Stygian abyss spam, or even the change to Perfect Conjunction, personally I like this incarnation better, I get more utility spells cast in a turn, yay 1 foc cost spells! I miss.....Necrophage....Coven has a good direct spell...Stygian abyss... necrophage was a great anti infantry upkeep, and i miss it soooo much. :mad:

Typhael

12-12-2009, 10:37 AM

They have cut down threat ranges for everyone considerably but I don't find it odd that the premiere ranged faction in the game can do something like this.

With respect, as you're obviously another eDeneghra lover (:D), I *do* find it odd. I thought that this was the nonsense they were trying to cut. Having to cut a good 1-2" from your deployment zone because you *suspect* that they can fire into it isn't exactly something that a melee army should be doing in most circumstances.

I haven't been exploring melee threat ranges, but can *we* get our helljacks into our opponent's deployment zone on the first turn?

69Lazarus

12-12-2009, 05:00 PM

With respect, as you're obviously another eDeneghra lover

She IS te hotness. :)

I thought that this was the nonsense they were trying to cut. Having to cut a good 1-2" from your deployment zone because you *suspect* that they can fire into it isn't exactly something that a melee army should be doing in most circumstances.

I don't have a problem with it. Played 3 games today and my opponents thought that they shouldn't have to deal with an all stealthed army that hit like a Mack truck (lol). Something I've always noticed about this game. Each player is looking accross the board thinking "holy crap, I gotta deal with that!"

I haven't been exploring melee threat ranges, but can *we* get our helljacks into our opponent's deployment zone on the first turn?

Not that I am aware of. We can get some pretty good threat ranges though. :)

Jiub

12-12-2009, 05:14 PM

If you are against eHaley with a defender, don't deploy anything vital so close. Problem solved.

Jyggdrasil

12-12-2009, 05:31 PM

Ahem...
*puts hand up as EDenny lover*

Although lets be honest, the model is pretty thugly. Which is why I did this to an AltDenny model...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v432/jyggdrasil/Cryx/EDenny001.jpg

69Lazarus

12-12-2009, 05:58 PM

Pendargon

12-12-2009, 06:21 PM

Our worst was Terminus...
And, if there wasn't for EGore, and perma shadow of death, he still would be...

69Lazarus

12-13-2009, 07:16 AM

Yeah, Terminus is much improved now in MK II and is actually pretty fun to play.

SmellyWabbit

12-13-2009, 10:11 AM

Morty and Denny both get my vote.

Morty's feat is just awesome, very simple but very effective, mixed with terminal velocity there are not many living casters that can survive such an assault.

Denny is just as good as she ever was, with stealth, parry and reach she can be surprising hard to kill.

Sabin

12-13-2009, 11:01 AM

Our worst was Terminus...
And, if there wasn't for EGore, and perma shadow of death, he still would be...

I used to enjoy Terminus Mk1, demoniac banes were incredibly nasty and ravager on the deathjack and nightmare created insanely powerful beatsticks, terminus hit just as hard mk1 as well, just no ravager/malediction and big spray (though he did get to spray after killing models). During the field test Terminus was hopeless, I am very glad that incarnation of the model didn't stick. Now I think of it, even eGore has improved since then, latent psychic vampire isn't that bad when you think about it, some armies really struggle against it.

NoGamingInMississippi

12-13-2009, 04:47 PM

New and all but my vote has to go for Denny, she's so bada$$!

Sabin

12-13-2009, 04:51 PM

Denny can't be overlooked, Crippling grasp is still the best debuff in the game, her feat is brutal and venom coupled with bone-chickens gives you anti-infantry that hardly any other warcasters can match on their own.

69Lazarus

12-13-2009, 04:53 PM

I know, I keep seeing people act like shes no good anymore....weird.

Sabin

12-13-2009, 04:54 PM

Admittedly I do miss my death rage security blanket, that turn to kill them after they have killed you was priceless if your opponent lacked upkeep removal.

69Lazarus

12-13-2009, 04:59 PM

Yeah, and taking over units was cool too......

Sabin

12-13-2009, 06:21 PM

I only ever won a game once with that where eCaine got CRAed by his own gun mage unit + UA. Generally I found it not worth the effort.

Temoinlanuit

12-14-2009, 06:48 AM

Mortenebra or Skarre2.

Both of these will only get better as we get more options as far as helljacks go. Hopefully, the new heavy we're getting will be worth something.

Pendargon

12-14-2009, 07:06 AM

True.
Morty, eSkarre, and both Dennys look strong.
Both Goreshade's are in the junk pile, and for my style of play so is Terminus (although i can see how he works, and why, but for me, it's too little cryx and too much Khador thing).
Iron lich is where he was always, a jack of all trades with a very sharp stick.
And i have a feeling that ELich may be one excellent, but am yet to play him in mk2 9due to owning only 4 Soulhunters...http://www.privateerpressforums.com/images/icons/icon11.gif)

^^^ Like your signature

69Lazarus

12-14-2009, 08:26 AM

Mortenebra or Skarre2.
Both of these will only get better as we get more options as far as helljacks go. Hopefully, the new heavy we're getting will be worth something.

Yep. Both E-Gaspy and E-Shade could also improve depending on what solos and infantry that we get.

Temoinlanuit

12-14-2009, 12:46 PM

Yep. Both E-Gaspy and E-Shade could also improve depending on what solos and infantry that we get.
The lazy painter in me is hoping our new jacks > our new infantry.. but yes.

69Lazarus

12-14-2009, 01:08 PM

The lazy painter in me is hoping our new jacks > our new infantry.. but yes.

Too true. I'd much rather do one jack instead of 6-10 infantry.

Sabin

12-14-2009, 02:25 PM

Yep. Both E-Gaspy and E-Shade could also improve depending on what solos and infantry that we get.

Any good non-character solos we receive definetely increase the potential of eGoreshades feat which is currently the best thing about him and the only real reason to consider him (unless you have a lot of Rahn players in the area).

69Lazarus

12-14-2009, 02:44 PM

Posted by:Sabin

Any good non-character solos we receive definetely increase the potential of eGoreshades feat which is currently the best thing about him and the only real reason to consider him (unless you have a lot of Rahn players in the area).

Yeah, non character will be the key but I'm sure PP will be keeping that thought in the backs of their minds.

E-Shade would certainly scare my Rhan list but thankfully, the internets have assured everyone he is soo awfull that he won't be used.

I'm playing a test game against Circle tomorrow and I was contemplating running either a beatstick Terminus list or Even E-shade. I'm assured of facing at least one unit of druids anyways so magic slinging isn't a good option.

Sabin

12-14-2009, 04:58 PM

I had eShade play a greylord heavy Khador list and I got a lot of complaints from him that eShade is over-powered... go figure.

phreaker187

12-14-2009, 08:19 PM

Assuming Haley went first we've got 10" deploy, 5" move, TK for 2" and TA for 2" + 20" range (with snipe from the officer that marshals it), boost to hit and a second boost to hit from Arlan's focus he gave it. Is that about right? So, basically your opponent can hit the front 1" of your deployment zone and you put your arcnode all the way up front knowing you were not going first? Also, that node has 20 boxes which means he also rolled pretty well considering no boosted damage.

I agree that it is powerfull, but still do not think it compares to the sheer brutaility that SAx3 with 2 re-rolls is (and old superior crit ability).

Stealth hoses Cygnar bad but a node can run right up and deliver it's payload anyways.

Dead-Eye says you get to boost one of the hits for damage. It's not hard to kill a node turn 1 and turn 2. Your average rolls for damage will be 18, more than enough to cripple a node.

Sabin

12-15-2009, 04:20 AM

It's also not hard for us to cripple a node with a debuff and a leviathan.

69Lazarus

12-15-2009, 04:39 AM

posted by:phreaker187

Dead-Eye says you get to boost one of the hits for damage

Dead Eye allows an additional die which is not the same as a boost. I'm well aware of this but only went by what the poster had said happened.

It's not hard to kill a node turn 1 and turn 2.

Then make sure to protect them with either terrain or other models on the approach. :)

Your average rolls for damage will be 18, more than enough to cripple a node.

Yes, more than enough to cripple but 20 needed to kill. Necrotechs become very usfull here as they can still get that node back online before it gets too far away...

Sabin

12-15-2009, 05:04 AM

Repair is useful, even if it only has a movement box and an arc node box left you can get a good bit of use out of it.

One thing I wish privateer did was give our bonejacks +1 armour to balance out the cost and the fact their defence is no where near as impressive vs. the higher mat of mk2 warjacks.

69Lazarus

12-15-2009, 05:13 AM

One thing I wish privateer did was give our bonejacks +1 armour to balance out the cost and the fact their defence is no where near as impressive vs. the higher mat of mk2 warjacks.

Do you think +1 ARM would make a difference if a dedicated melee jack did get to the node?

Also, not all MK II warjacks have high MAT either. My Khador & Retribution stuff often hovers around MAT 6 which means you need 9's to hit - and that means you gotta boost to do it.

Against stuff that's more accurate, I think we have a resposibility to either keep the node away from that source or to set up a counter that makes the opponent pay for that node.

Sabin

12-16-2009, 04:12 AM

It wouldn't make a huge difference but it would silence a lot of complaining and make me feel less guilty about taking more then 2.

69Lazarus

12-16-2009, 04:35 AM

I don't think it would stop the complaining.

I think it's main help would be vs. ranged/blast type stuff.

Game has changed for me though...instead of waves of them like
Tie fighters coming out of a Star Destroyer I only have a few and keep them well guarded.

I'm play testing scenarios right now. Playing something other than assassination makes a huge difference to some of our lists.

Sabin

12-16-2009, 11:20 PM

Jyggdrasil

12-17-2009, 02:25 AM

We still assasinate fairly well, at the moment I am concentrating on eGaspy feat turn, using pistol wraiths, gerlack and everything else I can get my hands on to cause havoc. I only have 2 nodes and I am actually using the Cankerworm.

Models returned via EGaspy's feat must charge, so the pistol wraiths aren't going to be much use. Or am I misunderstanding you?

ResurrectioN

12-17-2009, 02:47 AM

PWs are gunfighters now so they can use ranged attacks in melee and have 0.5" melee range meaning they can charge.

BENDER

12-17-2009, 02:49 AM

Pssst, pistol wraiths now have gunfighter. :)

Edit: TORUK DAMN YOU! BEAT ME TO IT!

Jyggdrasil

12-17-2009, 02:50 AM

...I love mk2 :D

Sabin

12-17-2009, 10:56 AM

Welcome to the band wagon :D

Typhael

12-18-2009, 07:28 PM

I saw somewhere in a thread that E-shade switched places with E-Denny as our worst caster (MK I to MK II)....I thought that pretty amusing considering all of the scenario games that I dominated with her.

Oh yes. eDeneghra was *awesome* in scenario play in mkI. I'm not sure why people don't agree. :O

Sabin

12-18-2009, 07:51 PM

Edenny was average at best mk1, her feat dominated scenario play but overall regular Denny was far superior in almost every regard.

69Lazarus

12-19-2009, 01:30 AM

Edenny was average at best mk1, her feat dominated scenario play but overall regular Denny was far superior in almost every regard.

Which is whay she was my scenario caster. Combine that with CMD hax and making Rengraves pirates invincible she was pretty dominating in those scenario games. :)

Sabin

12-20-2009, 11:05 AM

She was. She still is when you think about it, overall she has become a much better caster and given the majority of her board control ability stemmed from her feat she feels more competative in that roll. Marked for Death is now an absolute stand out ability.

69Lazarus

12-20-2009, 11:40 AM

Yeah, she now a scenario caster than can still assassinate you. :)

Malfunction

12-20-2009, 03:43 PM

What does a typical eDenny "scenario" list look like?

Sabin

12-20-2009, 04:54 PM

I generally field about 3 arc nodes, the nightmare, a couple of pistol wraiths, the withershadow. Really it's a fairly standard list, the arc nodes can slam, the pistol wraiths death chill, as far as units go I am still a big fan of running atleast one unit of biles and I would take either Bane Thralls or Knights as well, knights work a bit better with marked for death due to ghostly and higher threat range but the thralls give the list some more anti-jack and cost less.

69Lazarus

12-20-2009, 05:03 PM

What he said.

He scenario control comes mainly from her feat itself. What you put into the list is really up to you.

Malfunction

12-20-2009, 06:13 PM

Thanks guys....

Typhael

12-20-2009, 06:52 PM

Edenny was average at best mk1, her feat dominated scenario play but overall regular Denny was far superior in almost every regard.

I don't know about that....Tenebrous Exile is a *brutal* spell, and you've never had as much fun with Harrowing until you've cast it on Tharn Wolf Riders that are all over the place... :D

(even better is when those Wolf Riders try to meet in the centre so that they don't flee, and trigger Terror in Rengrave's command, giving your pirates invulnerability for a turn...)

jonconcarne

12-20-2009, 10:28 PM

Well, considering that I don't play with eSkarre or Morty, my top choices for most competitive casters would be eGaspy and eDenny. I haven't lost a game with them since the FT came out. Granted, I don't play all that often, but I think they are very good.

blakeh1

12-21-2009, 04:58 AM

I don't know about that....Tenebrous Exile is a *brutal* spell, and you've never had as much fun with Harrowing until you've cast it on Tharn Wolf Riders that are all over the place... :D

(even better is when those Wolf Riders try to meet in the centre so that they don't flee, and trigger Terror in Rengrave's command, giving your pirates invulnerability for a turn...)

The Harrowing was an awesome spell on her feat turn. It basically meant auto fleeing since they couldn't move to get into coherency. Also combined with the old Marked for Death it really screwed with that units effectiveness.

Also when the Overlords came along, Dark Seduction became unstoppable. Every time I faced someone I always took over pretty much whatever unit I wanted. The only faction it wasn't a sure thing against was Menoth since it seemed like every model in the army had the Commander ability.

I used her quite effectively in local tournaments we had.

She got better in a less specific sense in MK II and is now more support oriented and has access to DEF and ARM debuffs which she lacked in MK1. I am glad above all else she kept Hellmouth in her MKII incarnation and that it actually got better as far as I am concerned. I like that it is now a 3" move, not a d3 inch move. I love watching everything around the target get sucked into a neat little packed circle, to then have most of that disappear (assuming infantry).

As far as regular Deneghra. she is bascially the same in MKII. The difference is casters like Epic Skarre are now so much better simply because of things like the addition of Perdition or making Seas of Fate an ability combined with the general buffing Cryx jacks got as well as some of the other changes Cryx has seen like the relative cost increase of arc nodes. Therefore Deneghra is not that stand out she used to be simply because of what else has changed in Cryx, not because she herself got worse.

ubertuna

12-22-2009, 07:11 PM

Pending any significant changes from the faction books or the steam roller scenarios, I?m planning on running with eGoreshade and one of the liches for tourneys. I usually run one caster for ?hold the center? ? style scenarios and a second caster that focuses on skirmishing across a wide area. In MK1 eDeneghra and eAsphyxious worked well for me.

I think eDenny is still very solid in MK2, but eGoreshade has a lot to offer in the way of board control by seeding Banethralls forward, stealth and Curse of Shadows. He?s performed well for me thus far and I've enjoyed his very different style.

All three of the liches can skirmish pretty well. I?ll probably go with pAshyxious, though, since he deals with a lot of core challenges (high DEF, high ARM) while being very difficult to kill. Terminus is fun, but his feat is too reliant on a specific type of opponent for me to be comfortable fielding him. Unless, of course, I get a lot better with playing him feat-less.

Unfortunately I can?t go to TempleCon, and GenCon doesn?t look likely. At the very least I?m hoping to make it to PAX to test it out.

Ghyrrshyld

12-23-2009, 06:52 AM

Sabin

12-23-2009, 06:58 AM

The Harrowing was an awesome spell on her feat turn. It basically meant auto fleeing since they couldn't move to get into coherency. Also combined with the old Marked for Death it really screwed with that units effectiveness.

Also when the Overlords came along, Dark Seduction became unstoppable. Every time I faced someone I always took over pretty much whatever unit I wanted. The only faction it wasn't a sure thing against was Menoth since it seemed like every model in the army had the Commander ability.

I used her quite effectively in local tournaments we had.

She got better in a less specific sense in MK II and is now more support oriented and has access to DEF and ARM debuffs which she lacked in MK1. I am glad above all else she kept Hellmouth in her MKII incarnation and that it actually got better as far as I am concerned. I like that it is now a 3" move, not a d3 inch move. I love watching everything around the target get sucked into a neat little packed circle, to then have most of that disappear (assuming infantry).

As far as regular Deneghra. she is bascially the same in MKII. The difference is casters like Epic Skarre are now so much better simply because of things like the addition of Perdition or making Seas of Fate an ability combined with the general buffing Cryx jacks got as well as some of the other changes Cryx has seen like the relative cost increase of arc nodes. Therefore Deneghra is not that stand out she used to be simply because of what else has changed in Cryx, not because she herself got worse.

Almost everything was fearless Mk1, that is why Harrowing never felt worth while to me, the focus expense was also there for something that would simply take a unit out of the game for a turn most times.

DS was rarely worth the effort it required, and regular Deneghra did it basically as well, feat turn she had the command debuff eDenny used to have innate. The overlords were also very expensive and frail, most of the time if I was going to do it I used rengrave and puppet master.

Tenebrous was her best spell, no doubt about it.

Sabin

12-23-2009, 07:01 AM

Basically any of the Cryxian Warcasters are competitive except for eGoreshade probably. He is just terrible and doesn't really do anything another Warcaster can't do better. If he had a better feat.... but no. eDenny and eSkarre's feats just win, board control wise.

The top 5 IMO are too close to call. eSkarre, eDeneghra, Mortenebra, eAsphyxious and nDeneghra.

You can make even eShade competitive it just isn't enjoyable and requires you to be very abusive. In 35 I took a node with his warjack allowance, 3 min units of mechanithralls with 3 brutes in each, two pistol wraiths, 2 necrosurgeons, a skarlock and a minimum unit of bane thralls. Sudden death on the thralls for counter charge, occultation on Shade and phantom hunter on the arc node. Just play for the feat turn killing off mechanithralls and stich thralls for multi-wound monsters, throw a few curses of shadows around and camp focus if you need to.

Ghyrrshyld

12-23-2009, 07:15 AM

You can make even eShade competitive it just isn't enjoyable and requires you to be very abusive. In 35 I took a node with his warjack allowance, 3 min units of mechanithralls with 3 brutes in each, two pistol wraiths, 2 necrosurgeons, a skarlock and a minimum unit of bane thralls. Sudden death on the thralls for counter charge, occultation on Shade and phantom hunter on the arc node. Just play for the feat turn killing off mechanithralls and stich thralls for multi-wound monsters, throw a few curses of shadows around and camp focus if you need to.
I wouldn't even consider that since that my opponents tend to play fairly heavy anti infantry, like the Harbinger, who just shuts that army down for a single turn, eFeora + bonded Redeemer, Saeryn, Haley, eHaley and Kruger.