Fluffy Warcasters

[thesavage]

So warcasters are the VIPs of the Iron Kingdoms. Not only are they powerful in their own right, but all the warcasters are named. There are even "epic" versions of some of the warcasters, representing them as they evolve.

So explain this to me: how in the world did Lord Commander Stryker become a Lord when as a simple Commander he was pounded into the ground by angry xenophobic elves?

This is something that has always bothered me. Warcasters are supposedly very rare, so why are two always fighting? In the end, THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE! Sorry.

So whats the deal? Do the warcasters actually just beat a hasty retreat? Or is this like DC comics, where there are alternate realities, and just because Batman is dead doesn't mean he's really dead.

[Septimus]

Being a Lord isn't all about one's military prowess. Maybe he's really good at fiscal management or something behind the scenes like that. They just don't include it in the fluff because it would be boring.

[FearLord]

When was Stryker beaten by Elves? Must have missed that one...

The actual stories are full of Warcasters running away. Just a few examples from memory:

- Sorsha runs after Stryker interrupts her fight with Haley in Prime Remix
- Caine runs from his attack on the Protectorate Jack factory after Feora kills his army in Escalation.
- Harbinger flees from Goreshade while the last Grand Exemplar holds him off in either Escalation or Apotheosis...
- Vlad is saved from poisonous mist by the Old Witch in Escalation/Apotheosis.
- Feora runs from an angry Stryker in Apotheosis.
- Plenty of folks run after the big battle on the tower at the end of Apotheosis...
- Most of the Khador casters retreat after the failed attack on Northguard in Superiority.
- Caine flees from Magnus after his army is wiped out.
- Feora runs from an angry Stryker again in Legends, with a casual disregard for the lives of her people...
- Nemo retreats from Khador after the fall of Northguard.
- Goreshade flees the church after he fails to kill Nyssor in Legends. Later he leaves a mortally wounded Eyriss to deliver a message for him (showing a pretty low level of awareness of just how annoying she can be...) and runs off again.
- Sorsha leaves a mortally wounded Butcher to die at the hands of Cygnar (rule number one: never assume people are going to die until you see a body and preferably check its pulse!)
- Vlad flees from Severus after lack of resources blunt his attack in Legends.
- The Protectorate casters all leave Cygnar after Stryker kills Voyle in Legends.
- Magnus flees from Caine after chucking away his guns in Legends.
- Zerkova flees from a Retribution attack led by Kaelyssa in the Retribution book.
- Retribution book also reveals that Goreshade became a Revenant after suffering a mortal wound from Vyros and then running away...

Just some examples - not including Hordes where my fluff knowledge is lower, but there are plenty of examples of Warcasters realising that discretion is the better part of valor...

[Cloud-Gatherer]

Usually, a warcaster in the story knows he or she is beaten and withdraws before it gets fatal. Or sometimes they're just so tough and/or crazy that they are nearly impossible to kill (this is mostly in Khador - see Butcher and Karchev). Or sometimes they're undead and "death" is only a minor setback. The Retribution book actually has a couple of good examples. Zerkova barely manages to escape Kaelyssa, and Strakhov withdraws from the battlefield long before it gets exceptionally dangerous for him personally. Anyway, in the game, this is obviously different, but that's because the game is supposed to be fun and exciting.

Now, on the subject of Lord Commander Stryker, he's not a Lord. He still doesn't own land or hereditary titles or anything. "Lord Commander" is a special appointment given to Stryker that gave him authority to circumvent the usual military chain of command, because he threatened to quit if he weren't given carte blanche to deal with the Menites as he saw fit. It is a purely story-driven promotion.

[PPS_Mod:Bobaferret]

It's like an honorary degree... but with more killing!


:p

[Mangod]

- Sorsha runs after Stryker interrupts her fight with Haley in Prime Remix
Outnumbered two too one, I'd say that's a rather smart decision.

- Caine runs from his attack on the Protectorate Jack factory after Feora kills his army in Escalation.
Again, Caine is facing two enemy warcasters, all the operational 'jacks in a 'jack factory, as well as all the guards present too protect the place. Yeah, stand and fight sound like a good option.

- Harbinger flees from Goreshade while the last Grand Exemplar holds him off in either Escalation or Apotheosis...
She was already preparing for dealing with Gaspy, risking herself against someone who, at the time, was only seen as a crude brute seems rather irresponcible.

- Vlad is saved from poisonous mist by the Old Witch in Escalation/Apotheosis.
Vlad, you're suffocating on toxic fumes. Walk it off, you Rynn!

- Feora runs from an angry Stryker in Apotheosis.
After getting three tons of warjack dropped on her. Besides, she didn't run, she was dragged.

- Plenty of folks run after the big battle on the tower at the end of Apotheosis...
It was crumbling to pieces under their feet...

- Most of the Khador casters retreat after the failed attack on Northguard in Superiority.
"Hey, Greatest Military Genius of all Time, our plan failed. Should we withdraw in order to regroup?"
"... Nah, just keep throwing me into the meatgrinder, maybe it'll solve itself."

- Caine flees from Magnus after his army is wiped out.
See Caine runs from the Protectorate Jack factory.

- Feora runs from an angry Stryker again in Legends, with a casual disregard for the lives of her people...
As is seemingly typical for the Menite clergy with regards for their own parishoners (sp?). Besides, he had a jack and stormknight backup, she had a church full of civilians: bad odds.

- Nemo retreats from Khador after the fall of Northguard.
"Sir, our only defensive position has fallen, what do we do?"
"SUICIDALLY CHARGE TOWARDS RAVENGARD!"

- Goreshade flees the church after he fails to kill Nyssor in Legends. Later he leaves a mortally wounded Eyriss to deliver a message for him (showing a pretty low level of awareness of just how annoying she can be...) and runs off again.
He realises that his time is short and that Khadoran reinforcements will arrive soon, so he takes of. Sparing Eyriss was most likely a case of hubris.

- Sorsha leaves a mortally wounded Butcher to die at the hands of Cygnar.
If you are just joining us, Sorscha kind of wants the Butcher dead for killing her dad. She was not running away, she just abandoned a fellow (disliked) officer.

- Vlad flees from Severus after lack of resources blunt his attack in Legends.
See Caine runs from his attack on the Protectorate Jack factory & Caine flees from Magnus.

- The Protectorate casters all leave Cygnar after Stryker kills Voyle in Legends.
Their army had lost its will to fight, something Kreoss points out after Feora wants to continue the attack.

- Magnus flees from Caine after chucking away his guns in Legends.
Your alone in enemy territory, stay as long as you like despite the danger to your life. As for not shooting Caine, theyr'e drinking buddies.

- Zerkova flees from a Retribution attack led by Kaelyssa in the Retribution book.
She had little backup on hand, and she didn't know what numbers the elves had with them. An unacceptable risk in her mind probably.

- Goreshade became a Revenant after suffering a mortal wound from Vyros and then running away...
Mortal=deadly, fatal, killing. Must find medic!

[bouncymischa]

I think it's more of a question as to "how does my battle between Stryker1 and Vyros fit into the fluff, if I defeated and chopped up Stryker?" Or something like that. :3

Personally, I always assumed that a defeated warlock/warcaster is critically injured, and is either carried off by the remnants of their army, or makes a hasty retreat. Some kind of deus ex machina plot interference. :3

I've even used that to the extent of making up my own slowly-building storyline of games, which I call "Tales From Another Immoren". In this case, for example, Zerkova has developed a deep-seated grudge against Siege for first denying her the chance to grab an Orgoth artifact, and then an unexpected defeat when she tried to ambush him on a training mission...

But she's still out there, waiting for the next chance to bring him down. :3

[Helion]

I remember reading in Prime Remix the section on battles between the same caster. It said something akin to "who knows who the real Warcaster is?"
In my opinion, this gives us Carte Blanche as far as determining the identity of our particular casters. Just because a caster is based off of pKreoss, doesn't mean he's not High Exemplar Helion for example. Warcasters powers are not always specific to them, with a few exceptions. The Apotheosis casters are all individuals who probably wouldn't die if you shot them in the face with a nuclear bomb tipped with poisonous acid covered in angry bumblebees. These casters I don't mess with as far as identity.

[FearLord]

Some stuff...

Hey, I'm not judging! The OP's question was "Do warcasters run off when defeated?"

The answer is "Yes. Yes they do. Here are several fluff examples where this happens."

And thanks, yes my reading comprehension is high enough that I've picked up on Sorsha's dislike for the Butcher - not really bothered by her reasons, it was just an example of a warcaster leaving a battlefield without dying. It's a very good example, because it contains 2 warcasters leaving a battlefield without dying (Don't believe the Butcher's dead kids - not until you see them burn his body!) :rolleyes:

[manymoles]

I think the fluff given in the books are some nice background information. I believe there are many gamers out there which never read the fluff or ever will. It's much like the salad you gain when you order some burgers and french fries. Some will eat it, others not. Do what you prefer ;)

If you want more story in a consistent way, you should better go with some RPG over a tapletop wargame. There is a Iron Kingdoms setting available, isn't it?

[BlueSkies]

This is something that has always bothered me. Warcasters are supposedly very rare, so why are two always fighting? In the end, THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE! Sorry.

There are many warcasters not feature in Warmachine who are not fighting. But those are the warcasters who aren't in the war miniature game because they are not fighting.

I'm sure in Ord and Rhul there are several casters not invovled in any war.
Heck, you can take the privateer warcasters who aren't in war and who haven't fought other warcasters but rather raid a Cygnar military outpost with 3 warcasters and 3 warships, picking up a gunslinger and his elf friend, and finding a map to Zu while running away from an immortal undead ship which probably didn't have any warcasters.

[RabiTampa]

...
So whats the deal? Do the warcasters actually just beat a hasty retreat? Or is this like DC comics, where there are alternate realities, and just because Batman is dead doesn't mean he's really dead.


WHOA, Red Robin will prove all of you non believers wrong.

[ricefrisbeetreats]

I usually imagine the losing caster is badly wounded and escapes last minute.

Everyone here has 2 factions or more for the most part, so we don't regularly see same faction battles.

Either way, it's just a game to me. For all I care, nothing we do in game is canon and only the stories written in the books are.

It would be great to have some of the funny war stories written about though.

[thesavage]

Either way, it's just a game to me. For all I care, nothing we do in game is canon and only the stories written in the books are.

I guess it's kind of like the Lord of the Rings Strategy Battle Game, where you can have the Riders of Rohan facing off against the Moria Goblins. Now that would be funny.

[whitekong]

I thought you were talking about this kind of fluffy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8StWdzy

[thesama]

As to the reason why we often see warcaster-on-warcaster action, it seems (this from teh legends fluff) that once one side of a battle learns that a warcaster is involved in the conflict they tend to get one of theirs over there post-haste. Although we do have plenty of examples of warcasters running roughshod over non-warcaster-backed troops.. in nearly all these situations it's the Warcaster led force steamrolling the opposition... this is the best explanation for why we see so many of the "rare" warcasters facing off against one another.

the best weapon against a warcaster is apparently another warcasater, so you scramble yours when one of the opposition's is present. This is why there were so many tank-on-tank battles in WW2, the best weapon against a tank at that time was another tank.

[Faultie]

I don't think it's much different from Gorten destroying the Deathjack in the story, and me seeing the Deathjack across the table from my Gorten week-in and week-out.

[ColdYinTiger]

I'm still waiting for Amon to go off the deep end from Voyle dying.

[Prismatik]

- Retribution book also reveals that Goreshade became a Revenant after suffering a mortal wound from Vyros and then running away...


It *WAS* a mortal wound when he was living, hence why he's an eldritch now (for all intents and purposes, an elf lich). He did indeed die, but in being in cahoots with Cryx, death is but a flesh wound (in the case of Deneghra, most certainly so with her new set of shiny ab-stitches).

Take note too, not all warcasters flee from battle. There's the case of Terminus where he didn't flee... he was banished. Thankfully, his saucy triad brought him back with a lil' help from Skarre.

[CT GAMER]

Unless your playing your games as a sequenced series of events campaign-style then individual games mean nothing in the context of continuity or consequences.

Each game is a one-off hypothetical event. A "what if" and nothing more...

[Mangod]

Don't believe the Butcher's dead kids - not until you see them burn his body!:rolleyes:
NQ #28! The answer is just around the corner!

Other then that, sorry if I insulted you, just pointing out their reasons for why they retreat.

[Mangod]

I'm still waiting for Amon to go off the deep end from Voyle dying.

Grand Allegiant Amon Ad-Raza, now with shiny, new punchdaggers!

[tophalion]

So explain this to me: how in the world did Lord Commander Stryker become a Lord when as a simple Commander he was pounded into the ground by angry xenophobic elves?



Simple, because the king said so. It is implied that Stryker is of noble birth due to his history as a Stormblade which tend to be made of noble or at least knighted individuals as opposed to the Stormguard.

I also believe Commander is one of the highest ranks you can reasonably expect to find on the field on a regular basis for Cygnar. They would carry quite a bit of weight even without the warcaster status.

[Mangod]

So explain this to me: how in the world did Lord Commander Stryker become a Lord when as a simple Commander he was pounded into the ground by angry xenophobic elves?

When was that?

[Alekzander]

There are many warcasters not feature in Warmachine who are not fighting. But those are the warcasters who aren't in the war miniature game because they are not fighting.

I'm sure in Ord and Rhul there are several casters not invovled in any war.
Heck, you can take the privateer warcasters who aren't in war and who haven't fought other warcasters but rather raid a Cygnar military outpost with 3 warcasters and 3 warships, picking up a gunslinger and his elf friend, and finding a map to Zu while running away from an immortal undead ship which probably didn't have any warcasters.

If PP created creation rules and made some multi part plastic sprues for each faction we could easily convert and play these unsung heroes and greatly customize our armies and characters.

All they had to do is make the character creation into packages and roles ("Melee Warcaster" "Magic Warcaster" "Infantry Warcaster" "Ranged Warcaster" and finally "Jack Warcaster") and you fill in the powers from his respective faction.

Boom! Insant balance (you'd be playing a slightly altered eButcher if you selected a "Khador Melee Warcaster", maybe choose from a weapon selection with different effects)

To make things simple they could release this as a suplement, so they could really add a bunch of options WHILE keeping everthing in balance AND providing tools for their playerbase make great conversions and characters.


It IS the only flaw of the game, in my eyes, the fact that you can't simple customize the Warcasters.

[FearLord]

If PP created creation rules and made some multi part plastic sprues for each faction we could easily convert and play these unsung heroes and greatly customize our armies and characters.

All they had to do is make the character creation into packages and roles ("Melee Warcaster" "Magic Warcaster" "Infantry Warcaster" "Ranged Warcaster" and finally "Jack Warcaster") and you fill in the powers from his respective faction.

Boom! Insant balance (you'd be playing a slightly altered eButcher if you selected a "Khador Melee Warcaster", maybe choose from a weapon selection with different effects)

To make things simple they could release this as a suplement, so they could really add a bunch of options WHILE keeping everthing in balance AND providing tools for their playerbase make great conversions and characters.


It IS the only flaw of the game, in my eyes, the fact that you can't simple customize the Warcasters.

Sorry, not interested... Played a game like this and you'll only ever see the best options, and yet not be aware of what it does exactly... doesn't suit the game in my opinion...

[Alekzander]

Sorry, not interested... Played a game like this and you'll only ever see the best options, and yet not be aware of what it does exactly... doesn't suit the game in my opinion...

See, everbody says that.

Even when I point out that the idea is to use options similar to what the warcasters already got.

All "custominization" and "options" are this: "Options". If you select this thing, you will be better in X, if you select this other thing, you will be better on Y.

Even if this is hard enough, I just wish PP issued some official rulings on converting warcasters from Ord and other places from the game, because we sure aren't going to get any.

[Solo]

When exactly did Stryker get beaten by angry elves??

[Cloud-Gatherer]

I also believe Commander is one of the highest ranks you can reasonably expect to find on the field on a regular basis for Cygnar. They would carry quite a bit of weight even without the warcaster status.
That is certainly true. Commander is two ranks above Major, which is one rank above most Cygnaran warcasters. It appears to be roughly equivalent to a Brigadier (1-star) General in the U.S. Army.

That makes me wonder something: where are the Colonels of the Royal Cygnaran Army? It makes sense that if we ever see Epic Markus Brisbane he'll make Colonel, but at present are there just no warcasters holding that rank?

[Killionaire]

We haven't seen a Colonel of any kind, except Warcaster-Colonel Drake Cathmore.

[Rosicrucian]

Even if this is hard enough, I just wish PP issued some official rulings on converting warcasters from Ord and other places from the game, because we sure aren't going to get any.

Bartolo Montador is Ordic.

[AJ the Ronin]

- Goreshade became a Revenant after suffering a mortal wound from Vyros and then running away...
Mortal=deadly, fatal, killing. Must become undead!


Fixed that for you ;) :P

[Critias]

See, everbody says that.

Even when I point out that the idea is to use options similar to what the warcasters already got.

All "custominization" and "options" are this: "Options". If you select this thing, you will be better in X, if you select this other thing, you will be better on Y.

Even if this is hard enough, I just wish PP issued some official rulings on converting warcasters from Ord and other places from the game, because we sure aren't going to get any.
Just paint your stuff a different color, cook up a little fanfiction or whatever, and name/call your stuff whatever you want to name/call your stuff.

Maybe your Commander Stryker is actually ____________, Ordic leader of a rag-tag bunch of mercenary sharpshooters (Long Gunners) and a rogue Laellese Gun Mage (GMCA), joined in battle by rusted and battle-scarred old warjacks (appropriate paint jobs on IronClads or Chargers or whatever, maybe even with some bits from Merc 'jacks tossed on), in an army rounded out by a bunch of mercenaries (Devil Dogs, Steelheads, etc).

Your Cygnar army doesn't have to LOOK just like my Cygnar army, and vice versa. The parts of the Ordic military (such as it is) that would show up on a Warmachine battlefield aren't so very different from existing armies. With a little research and an appropriate core army choice (and paint job, and colorful names) you can put this sort of thing together pretty handily.

[CeltKhan]

As a note: Warcasters we haven't heard of aren't necessarily sitting on the sidelines. It's implied that Cygnar has upwards of 2 dozen warcasters on the rolls (and considering how many fronts they're fighting on, even that may be lowballing it). Siege wasn't sitting off to one side while Khador was invading Llael, he was most liekly fighting somewhere. We just didn't find out about him until Apotheosis.

So why haven't we heard about these mythical 'casters? because PP hasn't playtested and published them yet. Full stop. The playtest crew can only break so many warcasters at a time (or break the game with new warcasters so many times :p ). We'll find out about them soon enough.

[thesavage]

So explain this to me: how in the world did Lord Commander Stryker become a Lord when as a simple Commander he was pounded into the ground by angry xenophobic elves?

A few of you have asked about this particular paragraph. This isn't something that has happened in the story, this is my own personal gaming experience, where I play against a Retribution of Scyrah army and repeatedly lose. I just find it funny that in terms of chronology:

1. Commander Stryker fights a bunch of battles.
2. Commander Stryker is promoted to Lord Commander Stryker.
3. Retribution of Scyrah comes out of nowhere to kill all mages.

So why oh why is poor Stryker dying to these silly elves? Mark my words, I will show them one of these days.

[Critias]

So why oh why is poor Stryker dying to these silly elves?
Because you're not popping his feat at the right time to get a +5 ARM across the board, I'd guess.

[Falstead]

Because you're not popping his feat at the right time to get a +5 ARM across the board, I'd guess.

That'd warrant both a *SNAP* and *BURN*