What happened to my Wolf Riders?

[ironbudha]

Ok so I just read the Wolf Riders under MK2. ***?! They lost so much stuff. They only kept Pathfinder and Thrown from their original incarnation. No Prey? No Howl? No back-attck bonus?

I don't mind losing the Kromac-Brutality combo for them, but to lose all that makes them worth taking? Too much has changed.

Tell me some good reasons to keep using them. Has anyone used them yet under MK2?

Thanks.
~IB.

[Blaque]

Assault and Gang mean they hit as hard as they did with Prey. Weaponmaster on the javelins let htem be a good harrassment unit. They're actulally some of the cheapest and fastest Cavalry in the game. They die a tad less to blast damage (+1 ARM).

THey're really different, but I don't know if they are useless. They actually, when I read them, seeemed to be pretty good cavalry overall. Most cavalry right now in the game is a tad overcosted but Wolf Rider sand Raptors feel about right to me. I might be wrong.

And stuff.

[Rosicrucian]

Assuming you can set up gang, which can be tough, on the charge you're getting a RAT 6 re-rolled P+S 9+3D6, a MAT 8 P+S 14+2D6, and a MAT 8 P+S 11+3D6 charge attack. That's pretty darn potent. When stuck in they're getting two attacks at high MAT and POW. And if you give them Lightning Tendrils? Watch out.

Furthermore, as a unit with a good ranged attack they're actually in a position to make use of the light cav move as a very safe harassment unit. Assault and light cav gives them a 19" threat and 12" standoff range and re-rolled rat 6 is pretty solid accuracy (2/3 chance to hit def 14). Hunter and pathfinder also means you can make retaliation even more problematic for your opponent. Finally, as far as I can tell they can make a light cav move after running which makes them an insanely fast 23" when you need to reposition or run to engage something. Wolf Riders are quite nice as is.

[DemonCalibre]

Oddly enough I have the reverse opinion in MK2

I intensely disliked MK1 Wolf Riders, I didn't like their play style or what they had to offer.

The new ranged focused Wolf Riders in MK2 have me much more intrested, Long range fairly reliable ranged attack is solid, The ability to retreat, or get out of harms way, double solid, The ability to pry themselfs out of hand to hand if they need to and get away, triple solid.

Their new rules are actually going to get me to buy them, where as previously I haven't bothered.

[Mutton]

I'm a big fan of them in mk2; very solid harassment unit.

[LAWwaldo]

I fail to see how they are bad. They now actually function like a true light cavalry unit; able to harass the enemy with light ranged attacks before charging in to chew up light/medium infantry.

[Rosicrucian]

I fail to see how they are bad. They now actually function like a true light cavalry unit; able to harass the enemy with light ranged attacks before charging in to chew up light/medium infantry.

And light warbeasts/warjacks. Anything less than about arm 18 has good reason to fear 2-3 assaulting WRs.

[Menoth's Gambit]

Play some games with them. They are really useful. I think the MKII version of this unit is spot on.

[MeroTZ]

No stealth means they get shot. Their armor is still low, so direct fire kills them dead.

Pretty much anything with a CRA or a boostable ranged attack can kill these ladies at a distance.

As well, as far as 'ranged harassers' go, the Bloodtrackers themselves are incredible good at it, AND cheaper for more ranged attacks.

The Wolf Riders add mobility and an extra attack in melee... blegh.

Its been my experience that the current wolf riders are overcosted and way too fragile, while adding very little over comparable, slightly slower units. As well, Gang is clunky on a large based model, it really should just be Prey...

[DemonCalibre]

Imho Gang is way better then Prey.

As an opponent I can easily defeat prey, denying you the bonus, Gang you always get, when you need it, a smarter play.

[ironbudha]

Personally, Gang is flippin' useless. Wish they still had Prey. Infact, I think they really, really should have kept Prey. I can deal with the loss of all their other abilities (minus the whole unit cohesion thing now), but Prey? Come on the Bloodtrackers still have it! Why not the Wolf Riders?

I use the Wolf Riders constantly in MK1, and not with Kromac. Though it wasn't like I did the Brutality......lol j/k. I used them with Moshar! The ability to hit hard and then teleport him in to finish off the caster / lock was beautiful. Haven't lost yet with that combo.

They are still a good solid unit, but it becomes the matter of point cost and how useful they will become. I will definitely try them out, its just frustating to see good models change for no apparent reasons.

~IB.

[Rosicrucian]

@MeroTZ
They actually gained a point of armor and have identical wounds. I'm not sure why you're so bothered about their survivability vs. ranged. It's usually trivially easy to get them to def 17 vs. ranged and magic attacks.

@ironbudha
Remember that the changes in Mk2 are also intended to reduce rules complexity. Mk1 WRs were a very unusual unit that operated in a completely unique manner in a number of ways. In Mk2 they retained most of that flavor and power while using more standard universal rules. That is likely why they changed. Do give them a chance.

[Bone(idle)jack]

I've used them as was far less than impressed.

Gang is far too difficult to actually set up with large based small units.

If you go for small based infantry, you'll kill your charge target with your assault and lose the rest of your attacks because they'll be spread out and you dont have reach. equally you're not going to get gang because they'll be spread out and you dont want to go 2 on 1 vs a larger unit.

If you go for medium/large based infantry/cavalry, assault will be useful, you wont get gang for the same reasons above and they struggle to put out the damage to kill multiwound infantry. Withdrwawal is out of the question as you'll take free strikes.

Hit and run ranged tactics have issues too. if you move 9" shoot from 7" away then move 5" you're wasting all of the special rules. An assault followed by a withdraw doesnt work, because their movement is so high you have to be 19" from the target or else your 5" move wont get you out of counter charge range.

Wolf riders look really nice on paper, being able to move 23" turn one scares your opponent but they do nothing when they get there. Iassaulted a unit of blighted warmongers with them & they just bounced off

The problem is you're paying for rules you don't get to make use of most of the time. Compare them to raptors for the same points. Truth is, as they stand even a point reduction wouldn't make them worth taking for me.

What they need is either:
1)gang + reach
2)no gang and have weaponaster
3)ignore free strikes

[blakeh1]

In my game last night I finally got to try them out. Gang didn't come into play due to placement of models so I can see how it is situational, but I still like having it. They are a good candidate for Lightning Tendrils from Krueger though.

What I found very useful was Assault. it was very nice getting a weapon master range attack that I can reroll if I miss followed by a Javelin charge attack, then a mount attack. Against multi-wound infnatry/Cavalry it is most useful and it allowed me to take out the unit of Storm Lances quite easily.

They are very different. The only thing I will really miss from the MK 1 incarnation is the Howl ability. That would have made them much more effective at harrassment, but of course would have make Gang pointless