Blythe and Bull

[Dino-Czar]

Anyone excited about these guys? We can field them, and they get around tough, but I'm having a hard time getting excited about what they can do. I mean sure beatback is a neat gimmick on Bull's gun, and prey is kind of cool, but I just can't picture how I'd use them on the table top.

Any thoughts?

[ricefrisbeetreats]

I see them as anti-troll models but not much more. Not sure if I'll get them.

[Sevwall]

You would never take them over the B13th.

You would never take them over Aiyanna and Holt.

I don't see why they would be in any army list.

[isawatsuke]

not really seeing it either. But im sure when the models are released some guy will go omg these models are actually good and tell us why.

[CptCalvinus]

I'm excited for them. I think Huntsman, Tough (Bull), Rapid fire, and Backswing will fill voids in Cygnar's armory. I'm all for small 2-4 man units, especially multi-wound Character units. I think they'll find a place, just like Aiyanna & Holt have.

At ranged, they're 1+D3 shots at RAT 8, POW 12/14. Plus Critical Knockdown.
In melee, they're 3 attacks at RAT/MAT 8, POW 12/13. Ignore Tough

One thing we'll have to look out for is blast damage, since Bull will be easier to target, and it would get around Dannon's higher DEF.

I'm looking forward to seeing their sculpts. I don't run many mercs, but I'm planning on picking them up.

Does anyone know if Rapid Fire is not a normal attack? Or does Bull get D3 Beat Back shots? I think they would be normal, since you're merely rolling to find out a ROF for initial attacks.

[GunMageinTraining]

Anti-Tough is a rather small niche. Especially for two models with no real defensive abilities, and their offensive clout isn't all that wonderful either.

Yea, I don't see them used much, especially since they are anti-tough in melee only.

[Sevwall]

Its just d3 shots, and Take Down (no tough, among other things) is melee only.

People are going to constantly go "ooh, shiny" about the cornercase or random rules (Beatback, Take Down, Rapid Fire, Beatback, Crit KD, Huntsman) and forget that thier basic functionally is just lacking.

[CptCalvinus]

Yeah, I changed it to reflect Take Down as melee only, but it's still 1+d3 shots.

[Dino-Czar]

Yeah, I changed it to reflect Take Down as melee only, but it's still 1+d3 shots.

Are you counting both models then? Rapid Fire is very clearly 1d3.

[GunMageinTraining]

B13, same price, 4 shots same effective Rat, but easier to increase, or 2+ the awesome AOE, with better effects.

In melee, still 4 or 2+AoE... Better defensive values, but yes, lower armor and not tough themselves.

Still...

[Sevwall]

No it isn't. You roll a d3, and that number is your initial shots.

1+d3 would make them much better and potentially (though limitedly) fieldable.

EDIT: Are you counting Dannon? Her RNG 8? On a model who has to stay alive or Bull loses Prey?

Linky to a thread with the stat cards. (http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?t=146)

[CptCalvinus]

Are you counting both models then? Rapid Fire is very clearly 1d3.

Yeah, I'm counting them both together.


I can see using this unit as a pair of assassins. I see the B13th as middle of the board, drawing attention. A&H buff units best. These two will be trying to get around lines and take out key units/solos/caster. I'm not going to throw them up against a unit of TFG, but I will send them after Rhupert or a Vassal or the Heirophant (I play against Menoth primarily, clearly).

Why take them over the B13th/A&H? I never said I would. I'll take them with the B13th and A&H.

But, I'm not going to say anything more. I am excited for them and will be picking them up, painting them (someday), and playing them where they fit. I'm set in this, as others are set against it. I stated my feelings. I'll go back to lurking now.

[isawatsuke]

mmm.... which other factions do they work for? maybe its for them and not for us? I mean versh synergizes really well with us already maybe this merc is better with the other factions?

[Faultie]

EDIT: Are you counting Dannon? Her RNG 8?
Herne Stoneground has a RNG8 POW10 pistol too. I've used it all of twice in a year's worth of playing that pair.

Maybe there will be more Nayl-like characters, more Primed-like spells, and more Tough models in the Hordes rules and/or future WM/H releases. If so, I see DB&B being more useful. As is, I think they're a corner-case unit you take to counter specific other units (as you would employ actual bounty hunters).

[Reemule]

Chances are they will bring more in for the Trollbloods.

Dead eye Bull, Shoot Target. Fire 2-3 more times into knocked down target. Looks okay to me.

[Steamsmith]

They would be great in an Ashlynn list. With her feat bull would make sure to blast whoever is blocking los to the caster for the assassination.

[Rosicrucian]

They would be great in an Ashlynn list. With her feat bull would make sure to blast whoever is blocking los to the caster for the assassination.

I'd rather use a buccaneer for that. It's cheaper and guaranteed on a hit.

[Negative9]

Solid pieces that are outclassed by other models/units in that price range. I wouldn't feel like I was wasting points by taking them. So for me they will see some time in my fun list on occasion and with my trollbloods.

[isawatsuke]

Solid pieces that are outclassed by other models/units in that price range. I wouldn't feel like I was wasting points by taking them. So for me they will see some time in my fun list on occasion and with my trollbloods.

Can you be solid while being worse than other models for the same points? Isnt that the opposite of solid? I thought solid was along the lines of its not overpowered and it has a role thats not only going to happen in 10% of the games i play etc, etc?

[captainspud]

There's no reason to take these guys. They don't excel offensively, and are quite easy to kill on defense. I might buy them anyway if the models are nice, but I doubt they'll see much play.

[LemmingStampede]

Yes, you can be solid and outclassed, but only if you're a merc. So while they may be outclassed in Cygnar, they aren't so outclassed other places. Cygnar's problem with them is B13 and A&H, both are better tech pieces that can do plenty of killing. So while D&B aren't bad, they aren't special enough to compete with those pieces in Cygnar.

[Rosicrucian]

Yes, you can be solid and outclassed, but only if you're a merc. So while they may be outclassed in Cygnar, they aren't so outclassed other places. Cygnar's problem with them is B13 and A&H, both are better tech pieces that can do plenty of killing. So while D&B aren't bad, they aren't special enough to compete with those pieces in Cygnar.

The only place they aren't competing with A&H is Trollbloods.

[LemmingStampede]

And if Far Sight goes unchanged, I can see them being cool in Trolls.

If it weren't for B13 as well as A&H, I would be more pro D&B in Cygnar. Having 1 choice that is better means that, if you don't need Aiyana's tech, D&B can fit that spot instead so it becomes an option. Having both B13 and A&H that bring different tech means you're much less likely to not need one or the other.

[Elohel]

I dont know, I can see them maybe in my Cygnar Special Forces list.

Captain Allister Caine
* Charger
Arcane Tempest Gun Mages
* Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer
Black 13th Gun Mage Strike Team
Dannon Blythe & Bull
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt
Captain Maxwell Finn
Eiryss, Angel of Retribution
Gun Mage Captain Adept
Ogrun Bokur
Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator
Herne & Jonne - until we get rules on Gudrun.

At 500 points this list was the above minus Blythe and Bull and with nEirys and nCaine. And no Charger. Worked very well.

I can see this working even better in MK2. Depending on the price of Gudrun, I might be able to drop Reinholdt and add Harlan as well.

[Karyle]

I commonly play against a Cryx player who utilizes a lot of Tough when he can (because he makes frakkin' insane tough rolls) so I'm really excited to see something that can kill them.

Bring on the BULL!

[CeltKhan]

I could see them in Highborn lists. They won't be competing with B13th there, and they'd work alongside A+H fairly well.

[whats82]

They have to be 3 pt for me to consider taking them. Dannon's ability is not worth a 2 pt solo, Bulls is.

[mydnight]

I think in most cases I'd prefer A&H or even Stannis. And let's not forget Gudrun's only 3 points of kickass ....