The Skorne Scores are in ...

[Scalpel]

Ok here are the scores from the survey, starting from the Top Cat (see what I've done there? :p) to the worst.

3.60 Tyrant Commander
3.25 Bloodrunner Master Tormentor
3.21 Molik Kharn

Let's be honest here, I think we all agree that the above are good. I personally think the BRMT scored higher from people who have not tested him out. But the other 2 I'd agree they are some of the better bits in Skorne atm.

3.15 pMakeda
3.13 Cetrati
3.07 eMakeda
3.07 Brute
3.07 Tyrant Rhadeim
3.06 Paingivers

Ok, the just above average stuff again I see nothing there that's over the top or imbalanced ... a good solid selection.

3.00 Xerxis

A bit shocked over this one, while I think they have improved him and is defiantly a move in the right direction, all my games with him still feel limited like they did in Mk1 ... only TC really helps this caster out ... so feel it's more because TC is there and not Xerxis being balanced.

2.92 Agonizer
2.88 Praetorians
2.87 Bloodrunners
2.86 Cannoneer
2.77 Drake
2.67 Void Spirit
2.60 Ferox
2.57 Savage

OK these are only slightly below average, so no big deal ... I feel the Cannnoneer and Drake could have gone a little higher.

2.40 eMorghoul
2.38 Praetorians UA
2.33 Immortals
2.29 Extoller Soulward
2.15 Rhinhodon
2.13 Zaal
2.07 Karak
2.00 Venator Catapult

Well ... no supprise here execpt the Praet UA ...

1.94 pMorghoul
1.93 Shaman
1.92 Gladiator
1.85 Krea
1.80 Arcuarii
1.69 Venator Reviers

From here on things are starting to look like I expected ... same with the top end.

1.43 Mordikaar
1.38 Bronzeback
1.38 Ancestral Guardian
1.07 Hexeris

I don't really need to say anything do I? Those numbers speak for themselves.

-------------------------------------

TBH I don't think any of this will shock anyone ... people may disagree a little that one should be higher/lower .. but overall it's farely accurate.

So what now ? Get testing the extreme top and bottom and submit feedback.

Would be nice to run this again after Jan and see if a lot more stuff is in the 2.5-3.5 range.

[Helion]

Never mind. I'm on crack.

[SaltyBob]

I would be interested in how many votes per model this was. I don't know exactly how much can be read into if only 10-20 people responded to the polls.

It would be good to get some input from outside the faction I think.

Thanks for running the polls though. I'm sure by now we have PP's attention about the Skorn. I just hope that they don't rush a full re-work out and let something silly slip through.

Perhaps we can get a special Skorn play test part 2 in January?

[viperidae99]

I'm more interested in hearing, based on these scores, how many posters (anyone, including other factions) drastically disagree with any of these scores, and why?

[Scalpel]

Well the score threads are still up in the Skorne section so you can see the numbers.

I think the majority were Skorne players, but I can only go by their faction Logo.

I knew it wasn't going to be the most comprehensive survery in the world ... but it does seem to reflect what we all have been saying.

[SaltyBob]

Well the score threads are still up in the Skorne section so you can see the numbers.

I think the majority were Skorne players, but I can only go by their faction Logo.

I knew it wasn't going to be the most comprehensive survey in the world ... but it does seem to reflect what we all have been saying.

Yeah it does. It's a great idea to show how the faction feels about itself, which should be an eye opener for the development team at the very least. There is always going to be some whining and DOOM on the forums. Lets just hope they can skip over the hysteria and read some of the well thought out arguments.

[Deathraven]

I'm surprised that eMakeda wasn't higher actually. I think the speedy skorne problem is a lot more about her than it is about top cat. Top cat is good don't get me wrong but is 2 inches of movement on one unit worth geting worked up about? It's only over the top combined with the likes of road to war.

[Scalpel]

I'm surprised that eMakeda wasn't higher actually. I think the speedy skorne problem is a lot more about her than it is about top cat. Top cat is good don't get me wrong but is 2 inches of movement on one unit worth geting worked up about? It's only over the top combined with the likes of road to war.
I think eMakeda scored a little lower than pMakeda due to get feat being a bit "meh".

Top Cat is awesome .. it's not just warrior units it's models too.

Yeah he is good, because either you opponent has to stay and extra 2" away from any warrior model/unit than they could have done.

I suspect it will change back to Full Advance only in Jan.

[Helion]

Dear god lets hope not. I may die inside.

[Scalpel]

Dear god lets hope not. I may die inside.
Well that depends really .... If everything is boosted upwards then that won't be a problem.

The problem is now is that Top Cat is our only real good tactic atm ... and it's not exactly rocket scienece is it ?

[Helion]

True enough. However, I don't that the Top Cat could be called broken when placed next to such models as the Fell Caller, KSB, and The Necronomicon. He is just as viable a support piece as any one of those as is at the moment. (Except when you factor in Ferox. Then it get's kinda dumb. Stupid Ferox, always having good synergy with stuff...)

[viperidae99]

Enemy faction tactica
1. Write down the top 3 models on this list
2. Submit feedback that they're broken
3. Prosper

Thanks for making it easier for them Scalpel, jeez...;)

Can't wait til Mk2 comes out and all 'Top Cat' can do is give Praetorians massages, thanks to the feedback...

[Thunder_God]

I feel people don't appreciate the Savage properly, both in terms of speed/smacking ability, even with the Brute there, and for his animus...

[Khador247]

Very interesting indeed. Not surprising but interesting. I really hope things turn around for us. I'd like to be able to use a variety of stuff in MKII not just the same few models over and over again. PP succeeded at this pretty well with my Khador so hopefully that'll be the case here too.

When I'm running Khador my only real autoincludes are the Mechaniks and the Wardog. They are cheap and effective for what I want them to do. The Bokur will be in a ton of my lists too. Apart from that I think Khador is in pretty decent shape as far as having parity within itself. Sure I'd like certain things to be a bit better or cheaper but overall I think they got it about right. I have a feeling we may get beat in competitive play by Menoth, Retribution, and Cryx but I don't think the disparity is terribly great. Whereas right now I look at Skorne vs. Legion or Circle and just shake my head. Against Warmachine? Forget about it. I can see shooty armies in particular (especially Retribution) just absolutely shredding Skorne.

One of the big things that I think we absolutely must have is access to better ranged options. The Venators are ok but cost way too much. They pale in comparison to other ranged units out there and cost just as much if not more. The Catapult is ok but I'd like to see the range bumped up to 20 inches. The Cannoneer is pretty decent. I can't complain too much about it. All in all we're just way too melee oriented.

[Donesh]

3.00 Xerxis

A bit shocked over this one, while I think they have improved him and is defiantly a move in the right direction, all my games with him still feel limited like they did in Mk1 ... only TC really helps this caster out ... so feel it's more because TC is there and not Xerxis being balanced.


For me the change to his feat greatly effected what he felt like and how he played. Beasts being able to gain an extra die of damage plus the armor and not needing to charge for the extra die are both huge. Not needing to charge really changed the limited feeling as well. With paingivers he kinda reminded me of a Mk2 Butcher.

[Scalpel]

.. Not needing to charge really changed the limited feeling as well..
How about that now it's "While within Aura" rather than a Pulse ?

Has that effected your games?

[Khador247]

How about that now it's "While within Aura" rather than a Pulse ?

Has that effected your games?

You beat me too it Scalpel. This is my problem with his feat. Yes it's good but it's only good within a 10 inch bubble. They did the same thing to the Butcher's feat but at least his bubble is slightly bigger. If it was a pulse and you could use it on say, Ferox, then it would be uber. I used to love the Uhlans with the Butcher's feat.

[Razhem]

I wouldn't hold hope for pulse feats, they seem to have gone the way of the dodo for the most part. Xerxis at least doesn't have such a hard time being in the frontlines thanks to martial discipline letting him move briskly trough the table and still be covered. PMorghoul would be so lucky though, at least the epic has stealth, but the prime version really has to be in there.

[Donesh]

It hasn't so far. His shtick requires his force sticks rather close to him, and on the feat turn he moved into a position so that it would work. I do agree that playing against an opponent without a hard center to engage would cut the effectiveness of his feat significantly.

[Razhem]

Quite a lot really, all the times I lost with Xerxis were because I was unable to reform the cetrati wall around him, leaving him exposed.

[Deathraven]

I see Xerxis trading pulse for aura as fair considering how much better his feat got overall. He needs to be played very aggressively to work but that fits his character imo.

@ Thundergod: I don't appreciate the savage properly because he used to represent good value for point but now he just looks poor next to other factions melee light beasts. I think he's fallen in the gap between 4pt value and 5.

[Yertle4]

Isn't it strange that we don't have any 6 or 7 pts beasts?

[Deathraven]

Isn't it strange that we don't have any 6 or 7 pts beasts?

I know! I was really hoping pre-fieldtest that the Gladiator would be a 7 and be skornes juggernaut. A slow heavy hitter that represents good value but limited flexibility.

[Thunder_God]

Not too strange, seeing as there's only one 7 pt beast in the whole game.

[Mutton]

People don't like Bloodrunners?! God, those guys are great, and the new formation rules really help them out.

[Thunder_God]

They don't dislike them... just a tiny bit below average. I think they're average...

I mean, kill some single wound models, but not the whole unit, so have to survive getting attacked, don't do much to multi-wounders, not going to kill a light, even if the whole unit charges it, which most units can do, can't get more bodies into the unit to better benefit from buffs, etc.

[Deathraven]

I gave bloodrunners a 3. They're fine as is, thier only problem is the BRMT outshines them.

[Thunder_God]

They're fine, yes, they're just not more than fine, due to balancing issues.

Or in other words, they're balanced ;)

[Yertle4]

If they were a Warmachine unit, I'd take them for 5 pts.

Hence, good.

[Brownboot]

I'm surprised eMorg is so low. Blind is still nuts though I agree he's not the one-way ticket to midnight that he was.

[Khador247]

People don't like Bloodrunners?! God, those guys are great, and the new formation rules really help them out.

I just don't like the fact that they are worthless against anything except single wound models.

[chrsjxn]

I too am surprised that Bloodrunners didn't score higher. Shadow Play has a ton of potential tricks.

Also that the Extoller Soulward is so low. His ranged attack is pretty sweet. Boostable POW 18 against Troll heavies? Yes please!

Some of the rest of these make a lot of sense, though. Venators are really expensive, and Arcuarii just seem outclassed by their Cetrati brethren, even if the drag sounds like it'd be so much fun.

I wonder, though, how many of these are ranked in relation to their Mk1 abilities. Some of them seem like they might be, but I certainly haven't played enough games with, for example, Mordikaar to be sure.

[Moonblade]

I just don't like the fact that they are worthless against anything except single wound models.

We also have the BRMT for those.

[Yertle4]

We also have the BRMT for those.

Yes, assuming you're one of those people who only plays vs. opponents who shield wall their troops in front of the tormentor. Seem to be common around these forums.... my opponents tend to spread out their infantry a lot when they see my ranged / spell options suck, so I usually don't kill much with AOEs or Tormentor.

Shadow Play is an amazingly useful ability. I doubted whether they were worth 5 pts until I played them a few times, and Shadow Play allows you to do what you what to maximum efficiency OR more. Can't complain about that.