Horrible Menoth

[davorok]

Ive come across this horrible Menoth lst a few times now...

harbringer
avatar
vanquisher
Guardian

choir
vassal
bastions

first try i had an shooty list (my standard) and I was horribly beaten, second time was an eStryker list, and I got beat down again partly by an mistake on my part, but i wasnt really close. Last times I faced it I ran

eStryker
Stormclad
Ironclad
squire

Jr
defender

Stormblade with UA
Arlan

but I can put huge dents in him but I dont feel I ever get close to shaking him. So what can be done to his list other than lucking out and hoping for the "eStryker charge lane of doom"?

[knight_actual]

eNemo would shut that down fast. first time, his jacks might still be close together - you might be able to lock them all down together. then you'll have to start choosing.

rebuke the bastions.

his charge is longer than yours across the board unfortunately, so you'll need to close the distance with your feat. Make sure you don't get rebuked, feat, rebuke the bastions and the vanquisher - maybe put up positive charge (then run that warjack into melee support range) - maybe disrupt the crusader as well. then run your blades into melee with his avatar, and engage the vanquisher with somthing. Hopfully each of your blades get in a swing at +2+2. Then your warjacks get to swing at +2+2....take out the avatar first, but leave enough to engage the vanquisher. maybe this will do enough damage to give you an edge to deal with the bastions.

If he leads with the bastion, rebuke them, and then pelt them with ranged shots from stryker, stormclad, defender. all of them have enough spd and rng to keep shooting, and stay out of their spd+reach. Watch out for return fire from the vanquisher - keep your blades back, they're usless at the moment. eventually he'll either switch them back or move up to martyr. Once she's within 10 inches of the bastions, hopfully stryker is in range (6,6,3,2, 17") to velocicharge her floating little hiney.

Don't try to kill the bastions if you don't have to. they're too hard to kill under the harby. But if she's close enough to martyr them, shoot her - repeatedly. Use power attacks liberally to clear a charge lane for stryker.

if the vassal is supporting one particular jack, try to tag that jack with the stormclad.... and lightning leap to the vassal repeatedly to force martyrdom.

though really what you need to is force him to take a devout and take some heat off the line by taking an eyriss and threaten to disruptor bolt her where the sun doesn't shine.

[halffiend]

Consider losing the defender for a hunter, and upgrading your ironclad for Ol'Rowdy. Still gives you good ranged and a better melee 'jack.

[davorok]

Was thinking maybe do the hunter/defender swap and get Eiryss in there to as you Said threaten her with some bolts, parhaps he then opens up some to get that charge in

[Dark Fledgling]

First, Marshal the Stormclad to the blades. It get's just as much focus this way (marshall, +1 from blades, +1 from arlan) but doesnt require Stryker to use his focus.
Also I personally would drop the defender all together and replace it with Eiryss, the Black 13th, and a Gun Mage Captain. The reason is she only needs to Martyr once per attack, so by getting more ranged attacks (6 to the defenders 1) you can force her to martyr more.

This would give you a very potent group of ranged solos to A) kill the Vassel with, B) threaten Harby if she gets close to the lines with Disrupter. C) Pepper the Bastions with some long range fire.

Rebuke on the Bastions will get you the charge you need. If you do manage to get it (which you should do) If you Positive Charge a jack ('clad) and send it in followed by the Blades, you can deal massive damage by getting POW 17 on the charge. Since she will have to martyr them to keep them around, feat, and force her to martyr some more. You can also use the Black 13ths black penny shots to shoot again.

Basically, do all you can to take out the bastions in one massive charge, if they die, grats, go kill Harby now. If they live, grats, Harby probably martyr'd herself alot and the Bastions are stuck in with the blades.

During this, bring eiryss around the side a bit to prepare to disrupt Harby, if not then, then on the following turn.

Meanwhile send your IC against some of those jacks. Your goal should be simply to clear a lane. Stryker has a 17" threat range. Remember, you can charge 9" with reach, twink your str up a few notches and kill what ever you charged, then velocity another 6" (again with reach) and buy extra attacks on Harby. Another tip, is before this charge put Arcane Shield on stryker and use all of your little ranged guys to shoot down anything in his way or that threatens to make a free strike. If you charge at ARM 26 with Arcane Shield and 7 focus, you should make it unscathed, regardless of freestrikes.

You should be able to win this matchup, eStryker has all the tools, but everything has to go according to plan inorder to win. Good luck and happy hunting.

-DF

[knight_actual]

Harby gives her entire army charge +2 inches

[GunMageinTraining]

Disrupt (via Smiths and Stryker) + KD effects = Old Mk1 KDs.

Won't work on the Avatar, so he should be your primary target. He is tough no doubt, but killable.

Taking out the support is going to go a long way towards helping you out, and if you can keep the Guardian disrupted, Harby's going to just sit in the back and twiddle her thumbs.

Rowdy is a great choice as he can KD, is strong enough to beat some jacks down (free charge) and the counter-charge mechanic can help with both the Vanquisher and enliven moves, if they aren't careful about how they move... And even then, the only safe direction is behind Rowdy, which normally means even closer to your lines (so hit him with something else).

Preventing those Rebukes is the real issue, but it's a VERY annoying spell.

[Dark Fledgling]

If your getting rebuked in turn you could always run everything into position and then feat : ) no boosted damage but could still do the damage you need to do. Especially since you blades will have like a, 13" range or something crazy like that.

-DF

[Dino-Czar]

He could run jacks solos and his caster but not the blades. Rebuke forbids orders.

[Mutton]

To all those saying eNemo: Stop it. Harby shuts him down hardcore due to Purification, and any smart opponent will spread their 'jacks out enough to negate your ability to stick them in place, then punish you for being within 10" of them. It's an extremely strong Harby list; I've been running it (often with Errants or KE instead of Bastions and dual Vassals, but the rest is the same) as my "when you need to just win" list for some time now. It's main weakness is flankers; something we sadly don't excel at. Really, the biggest weakness it has would be to Siege; he screws 'jack heavy hard.

[Killionaire]

Rebuke the bastions every turn, and then they have what? a 6 inch threat? Tops? If Harby ever gets close enough, seriously consider eStryker missiling her. she can't stand that.

So the key is to neutralize the bastions without wasting resources to kill them, and taking out her jacks. Particularly the Vanquisher, with that godawful gun of it's.

Drop Junior and the defender for other things. I personally like a second Ironclad, and the Black 13th. The extra point grabs you a stormsmith.

[kylegnagy]

I would recommend Siege.

His feat turn can be devastating. His spell list really helps out with the ranged attacks. The foxhole spell can give you LOS to things that the Menoth player is trying to hide behind other targets.

I havent faced this warcaster before so my suggestion is theory. I think it can work well though and would be worth a try.

[Mutton]

Siege does well against this list, as said. Issue with eStryker is that if you use him to kill a 'jack and don't kill everything around him, he's dead. He can't outthreat Harby's 'jacks with his own, so that's almost a lost cause.

eHaley with a strong ranged support can do well also; force him to chose between no spells and no shooty.

eCaine is the wildcard; if you can bring enough of a punch along in the form of Stormblades and Stormclad et all and kill the Vanq before it sets eCaine on fire you can win, but it will be a very tough fight.

[davorok]

thanks for all the suggestions guys, ill toss a few tips in here and there and see how it goes :)