is Pkaya boring??

[rambo_squirrel]

Hi guys while the rules are still free to be changed I thought I would throw this one out and see what you think.

Kaya is essentially an assassin caster (a really good one at that) her best spell spirit door is designed to keep her safe until it?s time to jump, or if something goes wrong and she somehow survives escape or bring something in.

her other spells while useful are quite limited, stealth on one model/unit, bog standard missile which I think is a bit naff as it leaves her 10" from the enemy.

And soothing spirit which is good for her lots of beasts.

Essentially the game is won if kaya can reach the enemy with spirit door and lost is the enemy stop it.

so my gaming group told me it make repetitive game and to try and use her some other way, the only other way I can think of is the run more beasts(more lights) and get stuck in maxing fury for attacks then being soothing away so they don?t frenzy. But this means that kaya just sits at the back not doing much (other spells aren?t really that useful).

You can?t really let her get stuck in as she will die to a stiff breeze unless she is transferring allot.

So again you presented with a case of assassinate quickly or die in which spirit door is the easiest way so spirit/feat/have a nice day.

I?m not exactly sure what should be done with her which is why I present the question but in her current for I can see you winning a hell of allot with her then never being used as either you group find a way to neutralise her or just gets bored of the spirit/feat/death

[Masero]

Do you really find Kaya that reliable as an assassin?

I've always found sending Kaya in alone against most warcasters/warlocks is suicide. She relies on getting a crit for the knockdown, even then she is P+S 11. If there is any focus/fury left of the opposing caster she is in trouble.

I'd never send her in for a 50/50 shot at a caster unless all other options have been used up.

On the other hand if you can spirit door a feral warpwolf next to their caster everything is great.

[LemmingJesus]

You're using spirit door wrong.

[Dantes]

You're using spirit door wrong.
There are lots of different ways to use spirit door. Saying one way is 'using it wrong' is not inclusive of how versatile it is. There is no 'wrong way' to use spirit door IMO, just some are better then others.

[Scyldemort]

Is pKaya Boring?

No.
/thread

[Masero]

You're using spirit door wrong.

I'm curious as to who you are replying to.

I see there been 4 main ways to use spiritdoor.

1. To yo-yo a beast. ie charge in a beast and then pull it back so it's safe from reprisal.

2. Run a beast near the opponents caster. Teleport Kaya in and hope the dice god's are on your side.

3. Walk or charge Kaya to within about 4 inches of the opposing caster, while making sure you have line of sight to your warpwolf. Spirit door the warpwolf next to the caster.

4. To allow kaya to cast a 2 costs spell/animi and still keep up with a running warpack.

[Dantes]

5. Reposition a model with Primal to control where and who it frenzies on.

[galonso]

No, she's not boring. I have been playing her for about a week now.

[Masero]

I should add that I don't find her boring in mk 2.

She was underpowered in mk 1 and spirit door was the only thing she could do. The addition of soothing song makes her much more enjoyable to use I've found.

[rambo_squirrel]

What I mean by the above post is is kaya's abilities to limited that she become pigeon holed into few roles which (after more than a week of playing her) will start to get stale, I just get the feeling that she is kind of fixed in what she does and delta on 1 spell or just sits at the back calming things down even her feat is really soley there to help with the attack run

now dot get me wrong I'm not saying she's bad or overpowered just that she's quite set in her ways and doesn't really have many other options

[Vermithrax]

Do you really find Kaya that reliable as an assassin?

I've always found sending Kaya in alone against most warcasters/warlocks is suicide. She relies on getting a crit for the knockdown, even then she is P+S 11. If there is any focus/fury left of the opposing caster she is in trouble.

I'd never send her in for a 50/50 shot at a caster unless all other options have been used up.

On the other hand if you can spirit door a feral warpwolf next to their caster everything is great.

No I haven't found her good at it. As you say - the more sure thing is to use her 7" movement with pathfinder to get in close to the opponent and then Spirit Door in a heavy. That being said I have bounced her in on solos. Spirit Door is a good spell.

[blakeh1]

Yeah I don't find her personally a good assassin.
Last game I played with her I had the opportunity to Spirit Door next to Epic Stryker if I wanted. Then I realize his DEF is 16 and his ARM was 17 (camping one focus). Spirit Door would cost me 2 leaving four focus to try to kill him. I'll get one attack before having to buy an attack. Het MAT of 6 means I need 10's just to hit and relying on a Critical knockdown is too risky and even if I hit, it is dice - 6 to damage. I had to pass, it just seemed to risky. Maybe against a squishier target like Caine or Deneghra it might have taken the chance, but against the more average casters it is a little too much of a gamble.

Now on the other hand if you can charge or advance with her and then Spirit Door in a warpwolf that is a different story, but it is really the warpwolf that is the assassin at that point, Kaya is just the delivery method.

[Bakemono]

I'm finding this thread interesting. I find P-Kaya (I've gone undefeated 20 games with her in testing) to be one of the best assassins in the game. Of course, that doesn't mean she is the one doing the killing. More often than not she is merely getting within 2" of the target and bringing in a Feral to do the dirty work. I consider her too powerful with the current version of "Packhunters' and extremely dull to play, although clearly effective in the extreme. Perhaps she is just well designed for my style of play. I would rather Packhunters were toned down a bit (I've heard many good suggestions for this) and her adaptability and range increase. She needs a better ranged spell than Spirit Fang which is just bloody awful. I'm of the opinion that Soothing Song is a bit too strong and should cost (2) Fury to use each time since it allows the lowering of EVERY Warbeast in range. What I think would open her up for a wider venue of play would be to weaken Soothing Song a bit as I suggest and replace Spirit Fang with the following version instead:

Spirit Fang: Cost-3, Range-10, AOE-4, POW-13
Warbeasts within the AOE must make a Frenzy check at the start of their Controller's next maintenence phase, even if they have no Fury. Warjacks within the AOE may not be allocated Focus during their next turn.

[Dantes]

Spirit Fang: Cost-3, Range-10, AOE-4, POW-13
Warbeasts within the AOE must make a Frenzy check at the start of their Controller's next maintenence phase, even if they have no Fury. Warjacks within the AOE may not be allocated Focus during their next turn.
They will never give hordes Disruption which is what this is.

I would prefer an increase to the POW of Spirit Fang and allow it to ignore LOS.

[Bakemono]

They will never give hordes Disruption which is what this is.

I would prefer an increase to the POW of Spirit Fang and allow it to ignore LOS.

Never say never. They gave Warmachine access to Alten, so fair is fair. :) Even so, I agree with you. Hope just springs eternal. They could make Spirit Fang better even by simply having the debuff effects work on a mere hit, rather than having to do damage.

[Dantes]

Never say never. They gave Warmachine access to Alten, so fair is fair.
But they could have given use access to Eiryss and didn't. I think that's proof enough that it won't happen. Though like you I hope it one day will.



:) Even so, I agree with you. Hope just springs eternal. They could make Spirit Fang better even by simply having the debuff effects work on a mere hit, rather than having to do damage.Which is why I suggest the increase in POW of the spell. I actually like the SPD debuff on it. You can't charge if you have a speed debuff, saved my but more times than I can remember.

[blakeh1]

I agree. I like the debuff provided from Spirit Fang. It help me neuter Ol Rowdy preventing him from charging last game I played

[Thracy11]

Yeah, I loved MK1 pKaya and still love her. I pretty much only use her to support my beasts and make Spirit Door assassination runs. She is only better now.

But boring? Not even close?

OT: I dont think buffing Spirit Fang is a very good idea (especially the buff proposed above -- which is wildly overpowered, IMO).