charging with the weaker weapon?

[HellecticMojo]

with mk2 actually adding pow to the fists I've been toying with the idea of charging with fists on my khador especially on things like the juggernaught.

my logic is that hands with weapons like his axe are so damn powerful anyway that boosted damage on the charge is a waste. and the fist attack won't do any meaningful damage at all. why not allow both attack to do some damage by getting a boost on fist and hitting normally on the weapon arm?

obvisouly this is disregarding special attacks.

is this a khador thing, am I the only one who's thought about this? Does anyone have any stories?

"The entire team is babies!"

[Aries37]

Well it works out the same on average in most situations. But against high def models where I want to boost-to-hit on the charge attack you're better off with the axe. Also the axe has a very nice crit that may make all subsequent attacks easier to land.

[CeltKhan]

Also, the axe's damage is going to be in a single lump, so the more damage you do, the more likely you are to take out a system or three. When you start splitting it up in little bites, the less likely you are to disable something.

[Kavuking]

I think that tactic is best if the model has reach on one weapon but not the other (i.e. Mulg, Mangler, Beast, ect....) that way if you kill the target with the charge you are less likely to just be standing there afterwards.

[PPS_Mod:Polar_Bear]

I know it was always a tactic against things like the one Menoth spell that did the "equal damage roll" back at whatever you hit. So you'd charge with the punch to get rid of the spell, then smack them over the head with the Axe.

PB

[Solo]

I know it was always a tactic against things like the one Menoth spell that did the "equal damage roll" back at whatever you hit. So you'd charge with the punch to get rid of the spell, then smack them over the head with the Axe.

PB

Other than this, I suppose, if you are P+S 14 (fist) against armour 17, on a charge there is the possibilty of doing no damage. Whereas with your main weapon (P+S17 for example) you are guaranteed to do damage, so your charge dice is guaranteed to do something.

I would look at it as a more efficient use of your "free" charge dice/boost/focus, etc.

[PPS_Mod:Josh]

Let's look at it this way:

We have the option of 1 attack that is P+S 19 (average damage 26), or two attacks that are P+S 6 (average damage 13 each, total 26).

Now, the total damage is the same either way. But you'd want the first one versus ARM 17. Why? Because ARM gets subtracted from the damage total of each hit. Against the P+S 19, you'll manage 9 damage. Against the P+S 6's, you won't do any.

The only time that this doesn't matter is if both attacks are guaranteed to exceed the ARM of the target already. For instance, you have an attack that's P+S 18 and another that's P+S 15, and your target is ARM 14. It won't matter which one you boost the damage on. You'll get the same end results- an extra 3.5 damage beyond the norm.

The same thing happens when you start talking about attack rolls. If you aren't guaranteed to hit, you want to put the boost on your most powerful attack to increase the likelihood of it hitting and doing the most damage. The only time you don't care what you boost is going to be if both attacks are guaranteed to hit, such as if you're charging a stationary, knocked-down target.

[Kaptain Von]

I've been known to charge with my Slayer's Tusks or the Deathjack's Horns from time to time, mainly if I want three damage results that operate around the level that the claws put out. It's been a while since I wanted or needed to do that, though.

[saxondog]

with mk2 actually adding pow to the fists I've been toying with the idea of charging with fists on my khador especially on things like the juggernaught.

my logic is that hands with weapons like his axe are so damn powerful anyway that boosted damage on the charge is a waste. and the fist attack won't do any meaningful damage at all. why not allow both attack to do some damage by getting a boost on fist and hitting normally on the weapon arm?



Ice axe on the charge, is more often than naught, damage output wise quite satisfying. I would rather spend the focus to maximize my to hit/critical potential and buy extra attacks with the Iceaxe.

SFK

[N0rdicNinja]

Let's assume you roll average every time and get 7s on 2D6 and 10s on 3D6:

P+S:15 + 10 = 25dmg
P+S:19 + 7 = 26dmg

Against an ARM of 20 that's 11 damage grand total
Against an ARM of 17 that's 17 damage grand total
Against an ARM of 15 that's 21 damage grand total

P+S:15 + 7 = 22dmg
P+S:19 + 10 = 29dmg

Against an ARM of 20 that's 11 damage grand total
Against an ARM of 17 that's 17 damage grand total
Against an ARM of 15 that's 21 damage grand total

To me it doesn't look like it matters a whole lot which one you boost in the end, so if I were you I would boost the attack more likely to inflict damage already, so that you're more likely to have the boosted roll actually matter in the end regardless of what you roll on it.

[thesama]

I've done this in the past mostly with the revenger's shield. I charge in push something out of the way so i can get a line (w/reach) on the spear to get at what I really want, usually in this circumstance I'm only charging to get the extra movement distance and care little for destroying my charge target.

I've seen this done with other model's secondary weapons where the weapon has some sort of effect that you want to get on the model, but never with the intent to destroy the charge target.

[PPS_Mod:Zirik]

Let's assume you roll average every time and get 7s on 2D6 and 10s on 3D6:

Assuming that will very often produce incorrect probabilities as you can't do negative damage.

Note that the following all assume both attacks are 100% likely to hit. Say the target is knocked down or something.

Boosted Fist + Axe vs

Arm 15 -> 21.5 damage
Arm 17 -> 17.5 damage
Arm 20 -> 11.52 damage
Arm 23 -> 5.94 damage

Boosted Axe + Fist vs

Arm 15 -> 21.5 damage
Arm 17 -> 17.5 damage
Arm 20 -> 11.78 damage
Arm 23 -> 7.06 damage

As you can see, boosting the fist damage begins to fall behind. The fist starts to lose efficiency once the fist's power relative to target armour is -4 or worse.