35 pts, no heavies?

[parksd70]

So, it seems to me that no one takes a "heavyless" list. As a soon-to-be Troll players, I see why the heavies are so good, but I can also see how Trolls can play quite powerfully without heavies. I'm looking to start playing soon, and am looking at lists with no heavies. Could this work and does anyone have any experience yet with it in MKII?

[Brettman008]

It sure can. However, in my experience you need a way to deal with your opponent's heavy beasts/jacks. I think the axer is a great mid-sized beast and with the proper support can go toe to toe with the heavy hitters. Another option would be to takes champs, beasts with reach (axer, bouncer, and/or impaler) and the chronicler in order to dish out some serious damage.

If you don't bring a heavy it is even more important you bring a damage buff in the form of either the pyre, winter, or slag troll.

Hope the advice helps.

Axe to mouth!

Brett

PS In the interest of full disclosure I almost always bring a heavy. The mauler provides an awesome damage buff and can really dish it out in combat.

[beakerkd]

I have ran heaps of games with no heavy beast. I use grim a lot he is my number one caster. A lot of the time I will use a pyre and a impaler. A axer if I feel i will need rush or if I feel they will have a heavy or a unit of heavy inf.
I always run a full unit of champs and a unit of scattergunners they help thin grunts out.
Like Brett said always try to take some dmg buffs like a SSE pyre chronicler.
The only time it could get nasty is if the other person has a heavy list. In saying that I was able to take out 3 heavy Circle beasts in one game with no heavy's.

PS Alten or Victor can be ur best friend against a heavy ( just sucks they cant get far strike) Gatormen are not to bad as well they can work on the flank and they dont need a lot of help

[Soylent]

The only time it could get nasty is if the other person has a heavy list. In saying that I was able to take out 3 heavy Circle beasts in one game with no heavy's.


I have to ask if those were Warpwolves/Satyrs or were they Woldwardens. With the meta shift in Warmachine it's a good idea to have a heavy around unless you've stacked your deck. Champions certainly work but they'll likely need that buff from a Pyre or Slag to take a big bite out of some of the beefier jacks and beasts. Back in infantry machine I could easily run all lights but now I find you'll want a heavy in there to deal with many of the lists being run these days. Also remember the advantage of a trample power attack which only heavies can do.



PS Alten or Victor can be ur best friend against a heavy ( just sucks they cant get far strike) Gatormen are not to bad as well they can work on the flank and they dont need a lot of help

Pendrake no longer adds damage to a unit, only hit so his usefulness has ran it's course and Gators no longer have boosted damage against wounded models so they are not as good as they use to be at taking down beasts(and ofcourse jacks).

[bakaryu]

My Grissel list all the way up to 750 points in MkI never included any heavy warbeasts, and it worked superbly thanks to the fact that my entire army was on medium bases (except pendrake) so I could protect my warbeasts until they were in a position to make a significant impact upon the game.

In MkII Grissel can still win games without using heavy warbeasts, but with recent changes to the gaming system in general there is never a reason not to take at least one heavy.

[beakerkd]

Yes it was 1 warpwolf 2 satyrs. The main dmg came from champs with 2 of them having the pyre buff a impaler got a lucky crit and some nice dmg from the attack so that slowed one of the satyrs down. I was more shocked then him I think.
I still find Pendrake handy manly for his chain bola. Since some times its better to keep them back (also with edoom he can really make them run hot on fury so shake can almost be taken out of it). I also had some luck with him against cryx when he was able to KD a few harder to hit bonejacks/helljacks.
I also still like the gatormen you are right the extra dmg was better but they can still stop units with killers. Dirge of Mists can be nice against some units.

I have to say its a lot harder in mk2 (The game against circle was mk2) with out a heavy but u can still have some good list and u can pull of some nice wins with just lights.

[Soylent]

My Grissel list all the way up to 750 points in MkI never included any heavy warbeasts, and it worked superbly thanks to the fact that my entire army was on medium bases (except pendrake) so I could protect my warbeasts until they were in a position to make a significant impact upon the game.

In MkII Grissel can still win games without using heavy warbeasts, but with recent changes to the gaming system in general there is never a reason not to take at least one heavy.


You're using MK1 comparisons. Sorry, you'll have to check that catch-phrase at the door. MK1 you had mainly infantry to deal with and heavies could be dealt with in a round about way(mainly knocking them down and out of the way). With shake and how hard it is to take a jack out of the fight now you will be hard pressed to deal with. I'd challenge you to play against a Menoth or Khador army and then see how lights only work.\



Yes it was 1 warpwolf 2 satyrs. The main dmg came from champs with 2 of them having the pyre buff a impaler got a lucky crit and some nice dmg from the attack so that slowed one of the satyrs down. I was more shocked then him I think.
I still find Pendrake handy manly for his chain bola. Since some times its better to keep them back (also with edoom he can really make them run hot on fury so shake can almost be taken out of it). I also had some luck with him against cryx when he was able to KD a few harder to hit bonejacks/helljacks.
I also still like the gatormen you are right the extra dmg was better but they can still stop units with killers. Dirge of Mists can be nice against some units.

I have to say its a lot harder in mk2 (The game against circle was mk2) with out a heavy but u can still have some good list and u can pull of some nice wins with just lights.

Pendrake: He suffers from the same thing that Grim does in regards to the snare gun. Anything he can hit(RAT6) near any Troll can hit as well. If you don't hit you have that model breathing down your neck and if it's a beast, caster and you don't kill then you're in the same boat. I can see the possiblity for the *action but most beasts are well within our troops to hit range and for 1 point more we can have a Fell Caller which does near that not only for beasts but any model and it can do much more.

Gatormen: For near the same points you have Champions who benifit from all faction buffs, do on average about 4 points more damage and are more survivable. I can see Circle still taking them as they are more survivable than Tharn Ravagers. They're nice and at a glance they look good but when you hold them against the Champs and the buff then you see where they are lacking...as far as Trolls are concerned.

In regards to both I think they need something to make them a little more desirable as right now I don't really see the need to take them over our other options.