Skorne Vs Circle

[Zaqir]

Hey folks,
I know I have been all over the Skorne threads playing devil's advocate but please note I do personally feel that Skorne could use some buffs and infact in this thread by a Circle player:
http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?t=3310
I have given some counter arguments to his own requests in the same light as I have for the Skorne but I have also used Skorne to counter his arguments and hopefully put some light on the comparisons needed.

[Keegantir]

What you are missing is that PP has classically conditioned us to whine and complain by rewarding those that did and not rewarding those that didn't.

Look at the latest update. Other factions were complaining and calling for huge (some would say OP) buffs and they got rewarded with buffs (not all of what they were asking for, but some pretty big buffs). Skorne on the other hand had been pretty level headed and were only asking for some here and there and we only got a very little here and there, and one of our very few balanced pieces was nerfed.

This shows that the louder you whine and complain, and the more OP you ask for something to be, the more PP will reward you and bring your stuff up to par with WM.

I do not want to play a faction that is like what Skorne was pre-meta, so I am going to scream my head off, because that is what works.

[Thunder_God]

Erm, no.

What you are doing Zaqir in this instance is helping to balance all of the Hordes factions against one another.

The issue is two-fold:
1. You propose balancing by reducing much more than you propose balancing by adding.
2. You will reach a balanced Hordes, but only balanced against other Hordes factions, and not versus Warmachine factions. That's not cool.

Here's a worse thing, a "3" of sorts:
You propose weakening some of what Skorne has, or proposing against boosting Skorne, and when you advocate not adding to the other factions, your claim is "Skorne has it worse, so you don't need to get boosted, and if anything, weakened!", when the other tack would be "Skorne needs to be pulled to your level, or even to your aspired level", and this is made worse by you actually advocating weakening everything, on Hordes.

And no, you don't advocate weakening all models, but it seems you are a proponent of a weaker overall power level. And even if that's not your aim, that's what your actions are advocating.

I mean, I just looked at the Circle thread, for your reply, and what you said there was "Your models are better than Skorne models who fit the same roles and cost the same, how dare you complain?", you didn't actually say that the Skorne models deserve boosts. And to be honest, in one case, perhaps both sides need boosting, just that the Skorne require a bigger boost.

And no, you don't actually anger me, but this post? It leaves a bad taste in my mouth, "Look, I'm not bad! Like me, love me, don't blame me!"

[sirspen]

And no, you don't actually anger me, but this post? It leaves a bad taste in my mouth, "Look, I'm not bad! Like me, love me, don't blame me!"

This.

If you feel that you are required to post a thread to simply state that "hey look, I'm not really a bad-guy (Which I mean in a James Bond villain sort of way and not in a "your a really bad person" sort of way), then it seems (to me at least) that you feel you are doing the wrong thing. This is just my personal observation and hypothesis though.

[Zaqir]

This.

If you feel that you are required to post a thread to simply state that "hey look, I'm not really a bad-guy (Which I mean in a James Bond villain sort of way and not in a "your a really bad person" sort of way), then it seems (to me at least) that you feel you are doing the wrong thing. This is just my personal observation and hypothesis though.


In a way you are right, it was a bit self indulgent.

Thunder God:
As to your points, once again my main goal is to stop folks coming with knee jerk reactions and saying we need +2 mat and str and -cost etc etc. without folks have any sort of true basis.

2)I personally would like a balanced hordes and warmachine, i still think in some cases warmachine infantry is stronger then hordes in sheer power and there should be balance there but if you look at my post, the guy was trying to get a Reeves boost and reduction in cost and i just pointed out that perhaps the Venators should get the same reduction then.

3)Looking back I can see how my stance on trying to balance and bring down other factions OP stuff might bring an overall weakening to Hordes vs warmachine and I think you make a valid point so my future arguments will have more a consideration towards this although I truly believe when i compare beasts vs jacks that I am already doing this and perhaps my view was jaded a bit towards infantry because in mk1, beasts were better then jacks and folks accepted infantry in warmachine to be better.

So i will concede your point :)

[Razhem]

Well, at least now we know from some the circle players that 20" threat range on a melee monster is A-OK, so there shouldn't be any problems now asking for vanish to work the moment you make the kill and for EMorghoul to get two initial attacks.

[sirspen]

Well, at least now we know from some the circle players that 20" threat range on a melee monster is A-OK, so there shouldn't be any problems now asking for vanish to work the moment you make the kill and for EMorghoul to get two initial attacks.

I don't think you understand what the Circle players were getting at. It's ok for THERE (keyword here) warlock to have a ridiculous threat range and be an amazing face beater, but we allowed anything like that in Skorne that would just be overpowered (seeing as Skorne's models are all broken as is).

PSH, i mean common, how'd you not see that :rolleyes:

[Razhem]

I don't think you understand what the Circle players were getting at. It's ok for THERE (keyword here) warlock to have a ridiculous threat range and be an amazing face beater, but we allowed anything like that in Skorne that would just be overpowered (seeing as Skorne's models are all broken as is).

PSH, i mean common, how'd you not see that :rolleyes:
Don't tempt me, I already have a warning on me :p

[Joroth]

Tempt you to do what? I'm not sure what you mean by that :D

[sirspen]

Tempt you to do what? I'm not sure what you mean by that :D

I believe hes referring to going off on a tangent (or that's what i got from it).

[Joroth]

Sorry my humor can be a bit dry

EDIT: (insert much sarcasm to previous post)