Trolls or Legion? (Noob needs some advice)

[Alatriste]

Hi guys!

I just got started with Hordes and really don't know, which faction I should take. The choice will be made between Trollbloods and Legion. Concerning the models and the fluff, I like both of them.
My main opponents will be Menoth and Kadhor, so as you can see, only WM-Factions.
Now its your turn to help me choosing the faction. Because we will play only Battlebox games for the first time, is there any auto-win or auto-lose hiding?
I don't have problems with losing games, I just don't want to lose every game as a result of the faction I'm playing with.
Perhaps, this is a stupid question, but I've no Hordes gaming experience unlike you.

Appreciate your advice and any tips concerning Battlebox games are welcome, of course .

Greez Alatriste

[Goris]

Wait till the end of the year when the test becomes final and you might be closer to an answer. As of right now, who knows how this is going to end up. Both factions play styles are being re-written day by day as models get tweaked and people submit their feedback, so I say wait and see.

[Mezzanine]

Now its your turn to help me choosing the faction. Because we will play only Battlebox games for the first time, is there any auto-win or auto-lose hiding?
I don't have problems with losing games, I just don't want to lose every game as a result of the faction I'm playing with.
Perhaps, this is a stupid question, but I've no Hordes gaming experience unlike you.

You shouldn't have a problem finding winning lists in either faction.

[Cannibalbob]

You shouldn't have a problem finding winning lists in either faction.


Agreed.

It is going to come down to what sort of playstyle you would rather do. Legion has more ranged options, and is in general faster and more of a finesse army. Trolls got a bit faster so far in the playtest, but we still basically run straight up the middle and Hulk-smash things.

In the case of beasts, Trolls lean a bit more to the gigantic face-smashing brute side of things as Dire Trolls are some of the biggest meanest beasts in the game.

I guess the main question would be what sort of playstyle are you looking for?

[Alatriste]

Thanks for the advice.
Wait and see is perhaps the right decision.
Anyway, I'll have some games on Friday and proxy both Trollbloods and Legion, so I'll get the first impression of how the act in combat.
Any tips (or nasty surprises I've to watch out for) fighting against the Kadhor and/or Menoth Battlebox with the Trollbloods Warpack ?

Greez Alatriste

Edit:The playstyle I'm looking for is a more faster one (but not an only-shooty-one), focused on warbeasts.

[Goris]

you may want to consider circle then....

[Cannibalbob]

Any tips (or nasty surprises I've to watch out for) fighting against the Kadhor and/or Menoth Battlebox with the Trollbloods Warpack ?




To be honest I don't recommend you play a Hordes battlebox versus a warmachine battlebox as starting games. And the Troll battlebox is under-pointed compared to many of the others.

However, your best bet is to go for killing thier caster as soon as possible. Against Menoth you will want to keep Surefoot up and try to get as much crit-slams as you can with your Impalers. If you get a good opening send Madrak or the Axer in to finish off Kreoss.

The same goes for Khador, but that battlebox will give you issues. Sorscha is going to pack a crazy defense, has a feat that will just murder you in a small point game, and her jacks have more armor than you can crack with lights and no damage buff animus. It is a horrible match-up to be honest.

I would not base your decision upon the results of a battlebox game alone. And honestly, Madrak is a poor battlebox caster as his preferred army has a fair amount of infantry in it.

[DaKnub728]

Welcome to Hordes, my friend...
This game has no superior factions so you should have no worries with deciding a faction that will always win or avoid one that always loses. However, as it stands now, you may want to take Goris's advice and wait for the end of the year to come around. It is not easy to call what the factions may be like at the end of the fieldtesting, so we should wait for the final rules...

Best of luck to you and bring the pain at your game...

[Saerko]

Thanks for the advice.
Wait and see is perhaps the right decision.
Anyway, I'll have some games on Friday and proxy both Trollbloods and Legion, so I'll get the first impression of how the act in combat.
Any tips (or nasty surprises I've to watch out for) fighting against the Kadhor and/or Menoth Battlebox with the Trollbloods Warpack ?

Both have higher ARM values than you, and generally better damage output. The big thing will be to make sure you try to hit their heavy warjacks with your Impalers, and always boost the attack roll. The reason you boost on the attack (regardless of DEF) is that you're looking for a Critical Slam that will give them Knock Down and possibly have them collide with another model to give it Knock Down and possibly damage.

Cast Sure Foot and then upkeep it every turn, keeping your models within 3" of whoever you make the target (the Axer is probably the best choice). If it looks like you're going to be getting into melee, be sure to cast Carnage to make your warbeasts more likely to hit, and take advantage of the Axer's Thresher ability if the warjacks are clumped close together. I can't stress enough that you always upkeep Sure Foot and make sure your models are within it. Without that +2 DEF, those heavy warjacks will rip apart you light Warbeasts. Any turn that one of your warbeasts has damage on it, take advantage of Regeneration, because it's additional survivability that you will most likely need.

Other than that, it's down to the specifics of the terrain, your opponent's skill level, and the army you face. I agree with the others though, you'll be at a bit of a disadvantage against the Warmachine battle boxes, so as long as you know that going in you'll be OK.



Edit:The playstyle I'm looking for is a more faster one (but not an only-shooty-one), focused on warbeasts.

Trollbloods are not exactly the fastest faction. The only ones slower are Khador, so that's something to know going in. Legion and Trollbloods both play well when focused on Warbeasts, but Legion tends to have higher Fury warlocks and better Fury management tools, so they have traditionally excelled at running warbeast lists. I don't think the battlebox games will necessarily give you a good idea of what both factions can do.

A better test might be to swap out one of the Impalers for a Slag Troll, or both Impalers for a Dire Troll Mauler, and then play against the Warmachine/Hordes battleboxes with that. You'll get more of a feel for how the spells/animi stack, the warbeasts we have, and probably just have more fun. For the points they should be about balanced with those two configurations too, so it won't be like you'll be gaining anything crazy.

[megatron0]

Trolls Trolls Trolls!
You will find that we have the best community :) and that you will join a faction that you really want to do well wise in the fluff, you will laugh, you will cry, Be trollblood till you die!
But really i have had so much fun playing this faction over everblight

[Saerko]

Trolls Trolls Trolls!
You will find that we have the best community :)

I honestly believe this to be the truth. If only we could lure MalVeaux back from his local forum (and maybe get him to drop Med School) we'll be completely stacked with the friendliest of the friendly.

[HenryWard]

To offer a counterpoint:

-Trolls in the field test so far actually have a pretty impressive set of ranged attack options. At the very least, Bushwackers are boss, as is the Thumper, and that's enough to make up the core of any good ranged setup.

-While I won't go out and say that Trolls are fast, especially compared to Legion, we've gotten a lot faster in Mark II. None of it is directly on paper, but with various abilities like several feats (Borka and eDoomy), the improved Rush, more Goad access, and the Krielstone that now can run and put up its aura, the Trolls can actually get some move on. When set up properly our beasts have extremely long threat ranges.

-We run beasts extremely well, especially with the new Whelps. Just look at eHoarluk.

[Patuljak]

Edit:The playstyle I'm looking for is a more faster one (but not an only-shooty-one), focused on warbeasts.

As much as I'd love to tell you that Trollbloods rule (and they do) and are right for you, in all honesty, if that's what you're looking for then you would enjoy Legion more. With some Warlocks we can run beast heavy and we're not exactly slow anymore, but Legion is faster and usually runs more beasts.

[MetalsMike]

Trolls, from a visual standpoint, are the much more attractive faction, IMO. Some of the coolest looking minis in all of horde-and-warmachine-dom! *cough* Mauler *cough* Mauler Extreme *COUGH* etc *ahem* excuse that random coughing outburst.

[Alatriste]

Thanks for all the answers.
You've done a great job in convincing me to play Trolls. ;):D
So for the first games, I'll try the Trollbloods fighting against Menoth and Khador. Although it will be not an easy job, but hey, the more challenging, the more fun.
I'll try to crit slam the opponent jacks with the impalers of course, but Sorscha and her high DEF possibilities will cause some serious problems.

What do you think, which of the following three possibilities (based around the Warpack) is the best facing a Menoth/Khador Battlebox:

1.
pMadrak
Impaler
Impaler
Axer

2.
pMadrak
Impaler
Slag Troll
Axer

3.
pMadrak
Axer
Dire Troll Mauler

Greez Alatriste

Edit: Concerning my Avatar, I can't play another faction then Trollbloods.;)

[Bearded Dragon]

Edit:The playstyle I'm looking for is a more faster one (but not an only-shooty-one), focused on warbeasts

I would suggest Legion or Circle then. From your options, go Legion.


pMadrak
Impaler
Slag Troll
Axer

This one. You get a damage animus from the Slag Troll (excellent on the Axer for beating things up) and the slag can spit and put some serious damage on warjacks (and the Impaler helps it spit further).

Don't forget that Madrak has a nasty ranged attack as well.

Honestly though, the advice earlier about Madrak liking infantry more than warbeasts is true. You can win, but don't think that this field would be Madraks strength.


the only ones slower are Khador,

When will this Urban Legend be quashed? The only thing slow about Khador are the warjacks and Man O' War.

[Cannibalbob]

Thanks for all the answers.
You've done a great job in convincing me to play Trolls. ;):D
So for the first games, I'll try the Trollbloods fighting against Menoth and Khador. Although it will be not an easy job, but hey, the more challenging, the more fun.
I'll try to crit slam the opponent jacks with the impalers of course, but Sorscha and her high DEF possibilities will cause some serious problems.

What do you think, which of the following three possibilities (based around the Warpack) is the best facing a Menoth/Khador Battlebox:

1.
pMadrak
Impaler
Impaler
Axer

2.
pMadrak
Impaler
Slag Troll
Axer

3.
pMadrak
Axer
Dire Troll Mauler

Greez Alatriste

Edit: Concerning my Avatar, I can't play another faction then Trollbloods.;)


Honestly, Madrak's battle-box is underpointed compared to most Warmachine battle-boxes. I would say that a good equivalent force to use as a Troll battlebox would be:

pMadrak
Diretroll Mauler
Axer
Impaler


Thats roughly the points of most boxes.

[StarmanTTLB]

When will this Urban Legend be quashed? The only thing slow about Khador are the warjacks and Man O' War.I play eButcher, and my SPD6 Beast-09 charging for free at SPD+5 through terrain with three FOC and three Rage tokens says Khador is scary fast, even with the jacks :D

[Cannibalbob]

I play eButcher, and my SPD6 Beast-09 charging for free at SPD+5 through terrain with three FOC and three Rage tokens says Khador is scary fast, even with the jacks :D


That makes me sad that Grim lost his ultra-cool snare gun. It was so nice to just shoot that big bastard and say - NO stay there!

[Bearded Dragon]

That makes me sad that Grim lost his ultra-cool snare gun. It was so nice to just shoot that big bastard and say - NO stay there!

If it's any consolation, Khador lost the ability to do much the same thing with Greylord Blizzards.

I remember a tournament where this Armor of Kurak bearing Bronzeback was wanting to come stomp face. My Greylords would step back, one would put a blizzard on it and say "You can run 4" next turn" and the other do would do something else. Good times.

[Saerko]

What do you think, which of the following three possibilities (based around the Warpack) is the best facing a Menoth/Khador Battlebox:

2.
pMadrak
Impaler
Slag Troll
Axer

Greez Alatriste

Edit: Concerning my Avatar, I can't play another faction then Trollbloods.;)

Then welcome to the Kriels in the most official way possible! I would definitely go with the list above. You'll maximize your damage against the warjacks, take advantage of all of your ranged attacks, yet still pack enough melee options to get a feel for things. Plus, that Erosion die stacks with boosted damage, which against their heavy warjacks will often mean you can get two attacks in at POW 12 +4d6. On average, that means 26 damage to a Khador warjack, which is no mean feat.

Combine with an initial Critical Slam if you're lucky and you ensure that both hit. Plus, you'll get to play around with our damage buffs and get a feel for Fury management more with this list. Even though Sorscha herself has high DEF, she doesn't do that much for her battlegroup, and neither does Kreoss. Their feats are the big worry, and you have the advantage of playing with a very melee-capable warlock, so don't be afraid to have him mix it up later in the game.