is our dragoon worth it solo?

[shahryar]

pretty much the title.
is nemo's guinea pig worth it without a unit of stormlances?

[leo_neil316]

Yup. She's a bit pricey, but she's fast, accurate, hard hitting and can take out multiple models in a turn.

Honestly she's better on her own than with stormlances unless you have a caster that can fully support their ranged threat.

[isawatsuke]

Not too much for me. If i wanted her killing power and speed in my lists id just go spend the extra 2 or was it 3 points for 2 more stormlances. Sure they have less mat but theres 3 mat 9's as opposed to one mat 10.

She really doesnt do anything special on her own that the cav unit doesnt do.

[DragonWolf]

Not too much for me. If i wanted her killing power and speed in my lists id just go spend the extra 2 or was it 3 points for 2 more stormlances. Sure they have less mat but theres 3 mat 9's as opposed to one mat 10.

She really doesnt do anything special on her own that the cav unit doesnt do.
Agreed........

[Agamemnon]

She can be if you dont have the points for the unit. If you need her to occupy a unit on the get go while you advance your army she can fill that roll well. Unlike Stormlances she is 2 models in one. Once she dies she is still in the way with reach.

There are several models in Cygnar that dont get much love... Unfortuntatly Laddermore is one of them. If there was a small improvement on her I bet she would see more table time but her MKII incarnation is a little toned down from her initial release.

A little off subject but personaly I loved painting her. So that in and of itself was of great value to me.

[Strangelove]

There are several models in Cygnar that dont get much love... Unfortuntatly Laddermore is one of them. If there was a small improvement on her I bet she would see more table time but her MKII incarnation is a little toned down from her initial release.

A little off subject but personaly I loved painting her. So that in and of itself was of great value to me.

I'm in the above boat regarding her not carrying enough value to warrant her 5pts. I would agree that she's one more special rule or 1pt away from being truly viable. Personally I miss her ability to let her move through friendly Stormlance units (and them through each other).

It does break my heart to not play her. Both her models are some of my all-time favorites. Both are fully painted and typically sit at the bottom of my case.

[whats82]

Unlike most other faction's dragoons which can be used against heavy target, ours is meant for clearing out infantry, and she's only mediocre at it compare to other similar cost options. Cygnar has no problem killing infantry.

Sidenote, I love min unit of stormlances, almost triple the bang for only 40% more in price.

[Agamemnon]

Both are fully painted and typically sit at the bottom of my case.

There is hope for her. At least you still carry her with you. Personally I was originally disappointed when she was not Drakun size and cool rule wise but that was not her intended roll. She is Storm lance support that is not overly great at it now and just toned down some from MKI like most other models rules.

Keep in mind that she does hold her own and can fill a great roll in your army. Just know why you have her there when you build your list.... that is where most of us drop her out. For her roll many (those that voice their opinion on the internez) think she is over priced for her perceived value.

[Strangelove]

There is hope for her. At least you still carry her with you. Personally I was originally disappointed when she was not Drakun size and cool rule wise but that was not her intended roll. She is Storm lance support that is not overly great at it now and just toned down some from MKI like most other models rules.

Keep in mind that she does hold her own and can fill a great roll in your army. Just know why you have her there when you build your list.... that is where most of us drop her out. For her roll many (those that voice their opinion on the internez) think she is over priced for her perceived value.

I don't feel like she holds her own as well anymore seeing as she kills far fewer enemy models than before - thus there's more room for reprisals. I think there is some validation in the idea that she's overpriced. If one were to compare her to other dragoons, and even some cavalry solos, she's clearly lacking 'something.'

I really miss Practiced Maneuvers on her. If she's going to specialize in buffing Stormlances it ought to be easier for her to be around them. Either that or change the 5" to her CMD.

I'm not asking for her to maul entire units like she used to and get the d3 leaps insanity back, but what she brings vs. how much she costs... there are better ways to spend 5pts.

[Agamemnon]

I cant argue with you on those points Strangelove... There were a lot of great things she had MKI...and I would still leave her in my case then. Now that she is toned down it does seem odd but I have not compared her to other factions dragoons MKII...but then that isn't what she is for. Even though there are as many fixes for her as there are for Triumph on the interetz that is not a discussion I want to get into. I have just learned to not underestimate a particular model to much.


So to answer the OP... is she worth it. That depends on you and how you percieve her value.

There are people around here that take her regularly... They may or may not voice that but it does happen.

[isawatsuke]

I cant argue with you on those points Strangelove... There were a lot of great things she had MKI...and I would still leave her in my case then. Now that she is toned down it does seem odd but I have not compared her to other factions dragoons MKII...but then that isn't what she is for. Even though there are as many fixes for her as there are for Triumph on the interetz that is not a discussion I want to get into. I have just learned to not underestimate a particular model to much.


So to answer the OP... is she worth it. That depends on you and how you percieve her value.

There are people around here that take her regularly... They may or may not voice that but it does happen.

i would be interested to know what the "percieved value" is.

is it her electro leaps for light infantry killing? stormlances can get 3x and more importantly at 3 different areas.

Is it overall hitting power? Lances have 3x the attack and 3 times the charge paths to generate impacts.

Is it that she is only one model therefore easier to fit? You can have a single stormlance do almost as much damage as her and still have 2 held back for the next 2 turns.

Is it to tie up units? Yes laddermore is a dragoon but stormlances have 3x the bodies to put in the way of the opponent.

The way I see it the only percieved value she cold have is that she is cheaper at 5 pts as opposed to the 7 pt stormlances. However in this case as opposed to the triumph/defender argument the 2 pts you spend give you an absurd amount of benefits. 3x damage output, 3x bodies, 3x impact paths, a few more wounds overall and thats just off the top of my head. Really I would be hard-pressed to find any non-autoinclude 2 pt option that could be paired with laddermore to outperform min stormlances.

Of course the higher the point values goes the more room you have for her. I remeber playing a 100 point game with only one FA set and i was just taking whatever to fill up the points.

[Strangelove]

@Agamemnon - For the record, if someone has their heart set on playing her, I wouldn't slight them for doing so. She's a sweet model (an all-time favorite for me) and that alone can merit playing time for some individuals. Some people have different approaches to the game, and maybe there's a meta out there she kicks *** in. As some have noted before, there are a number of ways to get some mileage out of her, but it triggers an age-old debate as to whether she's worthy of such levels of support or not. If someone decides that she's a more viable target for say Temporal Acceleration than other models in their army then so be it.

Like, Triumph, if someone wants to run her then that's fine. They've thought it through and that model appeals to them and their play style, and maybe can rock in their meta. Personally, unless I'm playing a larger sized game (50+ in my meta) I have a hard time viewing her inclusion in my list as viable.

[Ysthrall]

I own Laddermore and don't use her much these days :p

In a larger game, with a bunch of Stormalces already bought, yes. In a smaller game with a warcaster who can give her some goos support, yes (Refuge from Kara Sloan for example...)

Against an opponent or playstyle that I know is going to need something like her (Menoth Smokey Brick, maybe Troll Brick, perhaps vs Circle or Legion), then yes.

But as a solid 5 point choice in a list? No, sorry.

I also got my head handed to me a while back by the Retribution character solo. Weaponmaster and 2 attacks =/= assault + electroleaps.

[Agamemnon]

OK guys... White flag here... I am not trying to say she is the awesome sauce. Also not trying to push her into other peoples list. All I am saying is that you can not overlook a potentially beneficial model. If you always bring the same list to play then your local meta will learn your limited playability overall and build against it. You have to change things up here and there.

Feeling a little attacked here...

Do I play her? Yes and she pays off in spades.... Have you even looked at eStrykers tiers. In that list alone she lets you set up your lances to be aggressive where you want them to react to your opponents deployment. Plus once you have her add two stormclads and now you have +2" to your deployment. It is one crazy fast scary army to have bearing down on you. In scenario play you could sacrifice them to gain basically complete center board control... turn 1 a large chunk of your army can be 10" off their deployement.... and a long long way from objectives. This may or may not be smart in every case but it is a stragedy that is playable.

I dont care what stats you show me on any model in WM/Hordes I guarntee you that there are people out there that shove that model up your "better stat" army.

Percieved value is up to the individual and their playstyle. I find great value in eStryker pushed up to tier 4.... I didnt even see you factor that into your stats. It basicly comes down to what are you going to do with a particular model, how do you see it buffing/benefiting your army overall.

Look at Ysthralls sig....

[Strangelove]

@Agememnon - Sorry if my last post came off wrong. I was actually attempting to just state that I actually am not bothered by those who choose to play certain models and that you can get usage out of her. It simply is not my preference. Again, not trying to go on the offensive here, and apologies if things sounded to coarse.

[Arkady]

I'm not even sure if she's worth it with the Lancers. That 5" limit on her buff is really annoying.

[Agamemnon]

Ok so I ran a eStryker Tier 4 list tonight. pNemo sat on the other side with a decent player at the helm. I was at a serious disavantage since I had no way to get pathfinder and the field was full of forest and impassible. What I will say is that Laddermore with her 3 lances in tow were amazing the entire game. First turn they took out Ryan from the black 13th eleaped into Watts for not quite enough to kill him. Round two Had the 3 of them off Watts, Lych and a SS. 3 was set up where the lances ran completely around the back (they are fast) to make nemo come closer to Stryker or face 2 Lances on his own. Laddermore came in from the side then charged Strangways skewering him on her lance. Rotessary anyone??

What killed Nemo? Laddermore was engaged with Nemo, Stormclad with positive charge was within range. Both Lances got a charge off on Nemo in his back arc. It was a single shot from a Stormlance for the win. Pure gold...

All in all it was as much fun as you can ever have in WM for both of us. I felt like Amon adding up synergy bonuses trying to figure out how much damage this was going to be.

[Dyoria]

Laddermore is awesome. She is totally worth 5 points.

I have always said this, she has the potential to kills 5-6 enemy models a turn.
1 assault victim
1 assault e-leap
1-2 impact hit victims
1 melee victim
1 melee e-leap

If you cannot find a use for this, I dont know what to tell you. Her assault range is 19", 23" when sniped. That's Gunmage ranges. She can run 16". Tall in the saddle. Ride-by-attack. Impact attacks. She can kill almost any solo on a charge.

She only gets better with 3 stormlances, because they get better on the assault.