View Full Version : PPS Soles comment (let's finish strong)
12-15-2009, 03:25 PM
In response to why they changed Rhyas and Absylonia,
We were told that she was not as fun as she could be. Players gave us a lot of observations for why this was and made suggestions for possible changes. We took a couple we liked, discussed her, and found a few ways to make her a lot more compelling.
It was also pointed out she was a little directionless in her first Mk II. She was part assassin and part beast handler. That caused us to buckle down and look into what we wanted out of her character.
Edited to add: When it comes to Mordikaar consider what changes you would like to see, but also provide reasons for why. The better thought out the suggestion, the more likely it is that it will stick with us. Even if we do not take your suggestion, we may think about the reasons behind it. This often leads to all manner of new doors opening. I am not sure the guy who asked for Forced Evolution on Absylonia foresaw the changes the model would inevitably go through.
So far just wanted to send a big up to the Legion community so far for riding the changes in a very constructive manner. With the change over to flight and some pretty drastic revamping, I think the forum community as a whole has kept their head together and has provided good healthy criticism for a more fun, balanced Legion list.
I'm particularly pleased that Rhyas got Occultation, as that was one of my few recommendations for her character. I'm guessing they rifle through lots of feedback, but it warms my blighted heart to see a suggestion make it into a workable FT, even if there were a hundred other feedback forms giving identicle suggestions.
With the FT looking to be extended, my suggestion is that we attempt to make a final, well-reasoned push to fine-tune Rhyas, Typhon, and eLylith (maybe pThag?), perhaps consider whether Vayl/Saeryn are a little too good in their current form, and make some workable rules for the Nephilim, Teraph, and archers.
If we're going to ask for unit specific buffs, I think we may need to debuff some of our current premier units. Any summary thoughts on final field test evaluations?
12-15-2009, 03:36 PM
If we're going to ask for unit specific buffs, I think we may need to debuff some of our current premier units
I disagree with this. It's not a compromise where you give something to get something else, it's a field test to try to make sure that there isn't anything drastically over/under powered (or unfun).
12-15-2009, 03:39 PM
I mention this because currently Legion seems to be competing well as a whole, but that seems to take into account a select few units carrying more weight than others. Some of the DCs have mentioned that they give greater gravity to suggestions that attempt to maintain faction balance as a whole, and tend to discount suggestions that simply add buffs to an army while keeping everything else competitively the same. I'd imagine it is because they feel what they provide as FT material is, as a whole, competitively viable. Some of Sole's Skorne posts seem to support this.
12-15-2009, 03:45 PM
Angelust has a good point. most of the stories of good things happening come from vayl or ethag, though abby has been growing into that tier as well. I think both Vayl and Ethag might need to be toned down, but I, personally, do not know where to tone them down and still maintain their flavour. other than that I don't think we have anything left that is overpowerful.
Things I will be campaigning for:
Elyl needs something
Pthag might need something, I need more playtime with him to be sure
Swordsmen may need to be looked at - they're much less attractive than legionnaires right now - I would love to see them get +2 speed on a charge, or something.
Teraph still needs just a little bit of something. long leash would be perfect - even if it raises the point cost by one. The teraph wants to be in the deep flanks along with striders - let's make it happen.
Nephilim soldier just feels bland, not under or overpowered, but definitely lacking in character. I'd like to see it get something either new and amazing, or old and fitting. giving it leap for the longer charge would work, as would giving it backswing, or something entirely new. It just seems a little vanilla to me.
12-15-2009, 03:55 PM
I considered adding eThags to the "tone-down" list, but so far in my experience he has been good, not OP. It may simply be my lack of skill, but his lack of speed and large base makes him fairly predictable, and easy to pin-cushion. I would actually like to keep eThags exactly where he is, trying to become a ghetto-Terminus. If any nerf came, perhaps replacing Scourge with something more mundane, such as Obliteration.
Personally, the caster that needs the most work IMO is eLyl. I'd like her to have a clearly defined role as a warlock, either giving her very competent ranged ability like Caine, or some significant army boosts to range like Snipe as a spell or an upkeepable spell that allows her army to re-roll ranged attack rolls. I think that would allow Legion to put more of their ranged units into play, just as Rhyas 2.1 helped to make Swordsmen and Warmongers more useful with Occultation. Currently archers, striders, and raptors are more of a flavorful addition, whereas Lylith could make them versatile and add some new options.
12-15-2009, 04:03 PM
Agreed. I just put up an Elylyth commentary thread in the FT forums in light of getting a weeks extension. Let's put out our ideas!
Warcaster Kirin Folken
12-15-2009, 04:09 PM
This might be a bit of a unpopular idea to some who feel eThagrosh is just right over even OP. but I suggested a Buff to Ethagrosh that carries over to pThagrosh.
Currently one of the BIG issues I have seen time and time again come up with both Thagrosh is getting gunned down by range models. Hes Big, hard to block LoS (especialy now). Normal Thagrosh is only bosting a ARM 15 under normal conditions.. we have buffs but hes rather sqquish when you think about his Medium base. (hes AP bait).
EThagrosh runs in the same boat, his ARM 17 and extra hps does give him a bit more durability but were Normal Thagorsh at least can push his DEF up a bit to help eThagorsh is sitting on a DEF 13 and can't push up the Def nearly as high. Combine that with his large base again hes Range Bait.
Idea to help, without going over board on him.
Athanc - After leaching, this model gains 1 fury point if it has fewer fury points than its FURY or heal d3 damage.
Its not a HUGE buff, in that it still won't stop someone from gunning thagrosh down in a big hail of bullets/arrows. What it does do is give Thagrosh a option to get extra milage and durability. The Athanc Fury bonus I have always found to be a cool power but Rare comes up... as Legion in both MK 1 and MK 2 never seems to have issues with generating fury and be reaved. (has to do with a lot of the meckanics of how legion plays).
12-15-2009, 04:14 PM
In my playtesting with eThag, he's usually either in melee, burning all his fury, or hanging back and casting Manifest Destiny. He's rarely short on fury, as he's often bringing lots of beasts to the table to maximize MD and his feat. This usually means that he is using 3 fury for MD, upkeeping Dragon's Blood, and rarely upkeeping Aggression. This usually leaves him with 3 fury, sometimes 2, which is often plenty enough to transfer damage to one of his numerous shredders or other heavies. Also, pooping a shredder when damaged can also give him that extra transfer pot when he's getting shot to death.
For that reason, I think eThag is not TOO vulnerable to ranged attacks, though it does tax his beasts with extra damage. That's actually the reason I think Manifest Destiny is currently okay, because his beasts are typically getting the damage from eThags being so big and brawny. They have a better melee and ranged output, but they're also soaking up transfer damage more than Vayl or Saeryn.
Warcaster Kirin Folken
12-15-2009, 04:20 PM
Difference of Play style prehaps.... I generaly find eThagrosh has 1 Fury to spare at best.
Btween upkeep (1 fury)
Manifest (3 Fury)
Cast Ether Rapid Healing or Spiny growth on himself (2 Fury)
hes sitting on 1 Fury for a transfer. That doesn't leave much play room for anything else. Hes to big of a target not to keep some kind of defensive ability up on hiself (even Tenacity). You can have one of the warbeasts do this for him, but unless its a shredder its almost always a better idea to have the warbeast (in the carnivean/typhon case) keep thier fury for use in buffing themselves or destroying something.
eThagorh's +2 ARM buff is to good not to be useing, so only way I see you having 3 fury left on him is if your having a warbeast cast the defensive Animus on him. Which means thier staying close to him, and have less fury for offense.
12-15-2009, 04:33 PM
I usually have Tenacity up on him, as I find +1 DEF/ARM is generally more useful than +2 ARM in many cases. Also, it gives something for the Shredder to do, while the Typhon and Carni can boost themselves. Also, I usually like having the option of exploding a shredder or seriously mauling a Typhon when getting hit with something nasty like a Hunter's AP round or something.
12-16-2009, 05:21 AM
Edit: just starting a new thread about it.
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