Plastic Black Ogrun WiP

[Exeter]

Here is the start of the plastic conversions that are going to be flooding the earth.

http://www.livetocrush.net/gallery/images/warmachine/cryx/glowingcryx/blackogrun%20wip1.jpg

It is still incomplete, but if you squint your eyes, you get the general idea.

The weapon was made from various gw bitz and some plastic tubes. I shaved the blight off too. That's the way Toruk likes it.

[paradogmatic]

Here is the start of the plastic conversions that are going to be flooding the earth.

http://www.livetocrush.net/gallery/images/warmachine/cryx/glowingcryx/blackogrun%20wip1.jpg

It is still incomplete, but if you squint your eyes, you get the general idea.

The weapon was made from various gw bitz and some plastic tubes. I shaved the blight off too. That's the way Toruk likes it.

That's one extremely nice looking fig.. also a great example of where the PP rules for conversions need to be relaxed a bit. TECHNICALLY that is something that isn't tourney legal, but to be honest with the weapon switches and the cleanup its OBVIOUS what it is supposed to be, in particular in context with your army.

Are you going to smooth out the armour plates in the coat to differentiate it more? That might be one area I'd go to -- extend his pimp-coat look all the way down

[Exeter]

Thanks man. I was going to leave the rest of him as is. I imagine him as part of Goreshades northern cohort.

So is it illegal to use the mini in pp tourney's because of the competitors parts or because your not allowed to convert a blighted ogrun into a black ogrun?

[paradogmatic]

Well I'm sure most reasonable Tournament Organizers would accept it -- it definitely demonstrates having the weapons of a Black Ogrun. The problem is simply that the rules state that one basic model cannot represent another. So at its base it is a Legion Warspear model, but its pretending to be a Black Ogrun.

This is where I think it should relax a bit - if the model conveys the rules and intention of the unit then it should be cool. Again -- most TOs will take this and say, 'Yeah that's a Black Ogrun' -- maybe make a few more piratey additions, but the hook hand is a great one :) The weapons of the Black Ogrun are pretty unmistakeable too.

So once again -- nice :)

[rvrchamp]

Dude... Fantastic conversion!

and to comment on the "tournament" thing, isn't it odly funny how GW has been so adament about WYSIWYG for so many years, and now champions the "Counts As" rules while PP is all gung-ho about only using the exact model?

As far as I see it, it's our hobby man. Why not have fun and enjoy it? As long as the model clearly represents the conversion (ie weapons on proper arms, ect) then I say go for it! Play like you've got a pair!

[Exeter]

Hmmm.. Thanks Rvchamp. I hear ya. GW's rules used to bother me in the past, but they are lenient enough to allow conversions of their figs. As long as it is based off their models using some percentage of their parts, they didnt really care.

The way PP governs conversions is a bit draconian. After all, I still spent money on a box of their models. Why not let me use them in their events provided I arm them appropriately, put them on the proper base, etc.?

[CloudFang]

just make those harpoon guns fire for real... then you can shoot people with them who dont let you use them and then tie them down like in gullivers travels..

[Varagon]

You guys are right in regards to the conversion. However, ultimately based on the rules, it's up to the TO to decide if it's acceptable. After that, it's up to your opponent as well. Most of the time, it's recommended that you have the 'original' form of the model as a back up in case an *** hat tried to tell you to put it away.

[Iron Fist]

I never considered fielding Black Ogrun because I really am not into the aesthetic of the models...but these conversions may hook me in.

[paradogmatic]

In the end definitely go for it -- I have some conversion ideas for my Retribution that will lead to them not being very canon in some cases either -- its really about doing what you want as long as you enjoy it. I don't convert in order to have a unit for a tournament -- that's just icing.

[Alekzander]

I don't understand how nice of PP is to sell individual models parts, and how stupid is for their part for being so hell bent on conversions.

[paradogmatic]

Well one can hope that come the newer rules for tournaments etc they relax the rules a bit. Maybe that's part of what might come down for MK2 Steamroller.

;)

[MrMiyagi]

Looks good! Too bad PP are such ******s about the conversion rules for tourneys.

[ecthelion]

great job....but what model is that? Looks sweet.

[SRDragon]

As a TO and a hobbyist, I like to see conversions. If I were you I'd bring the conversions to the TO to see if he'd allow it. then as Varagon said it's up to your opponent.

I wouldn't have an issue with everyone else calling that one opponent out if he did complain. ;-) My group would Razz him to no end. But that's my group. :-D Most of my Tournaments are built around fun anyways.

[Exeter]

@ecthelion (http://privateerpressforums.com/member.php?u=18604) - The model is a legion warspear



You guys are right in regards to the conversion. However, ultimately based on the rules, it's up to the TO to decide if it's acceptable. After that, it's up to your opponent as well. Most of the time, it's recommended that you have the 'original' form of the model as a back up in case an *** hat tried to tell you to put it away.

I'm definitely not getting the original black ogrun models. I dont really care for them and I spent the money on these. Not only that, I spent the time to clean, convert, and paint (in the works) these. I can always make more money, but I only have so much free time.

I spoke to the TO of the event I was planning on bringing these to and he said he'd get back to me on its legality. So...only time will tell.

[-Q-]

Every nice conversion on this forum has to turn into a thread about the PP Tournament rules.. and *that's* why conversions continue to be a problem in the WarmaHordes community. Self-important fanboys and folks too proud about having PG_ in their names calling out the rule constantly. For years now. Almost every nice conversion's first reply post is "it's nice but it's technically not legal"

If the community ignored (or loosely interpreted or "relaxed") the rule from the beginning then it wouldn't be a problem today. Everyone quotes the heavily converted Sorcha cannot be used as a Haley line... that's absurd and we all know it's absurd, if the weapons are correct and you tell your opponent, I'm playing Haley in my *Cygnar* battle against you they can't *possibly* be confused mid-game that your model is Sorcha... in a Cygnar force. But everyone wants to be important and it makes people feel important to know and quote the official rules. It's the community's choice to allow these debates to continue. Anyone calling out that rule should just be instantly shut down "don't worry about it"

Everyone loves to explain how these conversions wouldn't be allowed in official PP events like GenCon or whatnot. Again... this is our choice. If *we* allowed the creative community to express themselves through their modeling then eventually PP would be forced to relax and eventually embrace this *crucial* part of the hobby. Yes, maybe year one a few people would be told to remove models from play in the GenCon tournament so the solution... put your disqualified work of art aside and explain to every admirer that PP wouldn't let you play with it. If the model is a Warcaster or Warlock and you wouldn't be able to play without it put a bare metal one in play and put the conversion on display at the side. Get people talking about how the rule hurts the *hobby* instead of worrying about the pride of your playing one day's game. Organize and encourage your colleagues to bring *nice* WYSIWYG appropriate models to tournaments. Year two PP starts to see that they're going to have to reconsider the rule to accommodate the community, the customers' preferences. It's been mentioned about how GW tournaments have some really radical armies in play, that didn't happen over night. The *community* chose to make that sort of thing a hallmark of Grand Tournaments, the cool complicated super-converted armies. Heck, I've personally travelled to several Grand Tournaments *just* to check out everyone's armies. I stop and compliment cool work and I would be disgusted at the organizers to have the player tell me "yeah but I can't play it because real Space Marines don't have rat heads"

None of this would change the central concept of poor and inappropriate conversions not being allowed, those folks would simply lose out on that particular day's game, and learn that they need to adjust their conversions to more accurately represent the official unit. But it's the preemptive "bring an extra just in case" that kills the spirit. Don't tell people to bring an extra, don't tell people to check ahead of time, don't bring an extra yourself, just play without that unit that day with the unit displayed for everyone to see what wasn't allowed. If it's so far off base that it's just not ever going to be usable you still have a couple nice avenues to share and enjoy your creativity, post the models here and on CoolMini with a *kind* explaination that you were a little too radical in your conversion and/or paint/decal the name of the unit on the base and continue to use it in local leagues and tournaments.

Most every gamer I know would see such a situation as being ridiculous and balk and sympathize. But here... it's "Well *I* would allow it but it's technically against the rules, blah, blah" and *that* kills creativity. Like Exeter said he doesn't like the official models and won't buy them as backups... the converse surely happens a lot with players thinking "well I'm not going to bother doing my conversion since I only have time to get one version ready for the tournament"

*We* allow this ridiculous rule
We *can* change this ridiculous rule
We don't

[2LiveIs2Die]

You guys are right in regards to the conversion. However, ultimately based on the rules, it's up to the TO to decide if it's acceptable. After that, it's up to your opponent as well. Most of the time, it's recommended that you have the 'original' form of the model as a back up in case an *** hat tried to tell you to put it away.
This is true.
But in my opinion, F the haters.
You spend time and money converting a model that looks amazing, and then you get an opponent that has 1 models 1/2 painted that says "oh, well its cool, but use the original one, ill get confused..."

[xCrumbsx]

That is one awesome looking model. I can't wait to see more of them.

As for the whole conversion debate GW had a 25% of the model must be made from Citadel parts/mini rule and that was back when I started playing when I was like 12. WYSIWYG was for wargear and weapon options. The only reason you're seeing totally awesome heavily converted GW armies is the prevelance of plastics in the mini line now. The first landspeeder was scratch built from a deoderant canister after all.

Personally I will only put up with conversions in a competative setting provided the conversion can't be confused with another unit on the table. I've seen simple conversions that can't be easily distingushed from the model used as the primary base for converting. If you drop down a unit of trenchers and call them longgunners because you made their rifles slightly longer and then you drop down some actual trenchers next to them yeah I'm going to say something or at least make you put a post-it out that says longgunners.

[Zaxon]

This is a fantastic start...at first I wasn't even sure what model it started as! I may draw some inspiration from it for my long-overdue Cryxian bokur project.

I agree with -Q-'s sentiment, even if it is a bit...overstated. :D The intent on limiting conversions is two-fold...a) to prevent confusion on the table on the part of both players. As I have been preparing for fielding Mechanithralls and Scrap Thralls in Mk II, I have heard horror stories from experienced players who faced people who intentionally interspersed them using the confusion and model similarities intentionally...and these are studio models! The example of using a converted Sorscha as Haley is widely quoted, but the presence of Cygnar models on the table should make that pretty clear); b) to sell Privateer Press product. I have a machine wraith conversion in the works that is a wreck marker, most of the pipes and tubes that the online store sells, and a Necron Flayed One...by weight and dollar amount it is certainly a Privateer Press model, and I don't think anyone would be confused by what it is. But by the strict letter of the current rules, it is an illegal conversion. I am sure it is Privateer's intent to foster enthusiasm and creativity for its setting and its product...conversions are part of that.

[jjpens77]

Well back onto the original topic of the post...

Sweet conversion...definitely post up pics of the entire unit once you have them painted up. What skin color are you going to do them in?

[ecthelion]

Can any of you guys tell me why a plastic unit of these guys is so expensive? Like 30 GBp expensive?

[-Q-]

PP and most mini companies generally charge by the point cost/in-game value/importance.

[MarmaladeChainsaw]

Can any of you guys tell me why a plastic unit of these guys is so expensive? Like 30 GBp expensive?

They would cost something like twice as much in metal. Complain about it if you like, there's not enough plastic for me yet.

-MC