Earthborn, anyone?

[Indy]

So, I have to confess, I haven't played too many games with my trolls in MKII. I will get more now that the test has been extended, but to date I've only played a handful of times. I have both an Earthborn and a Mauler, and I'm having a hard time justifying to myself why I should use the former when I have the latter.

I am curious to see how many people have been playing the Earthborn. He just seems a little... I don't know. Lost, maybe? Stuck in between? It just seems that he's on par with the Mauler and Blitzer these days yet more expensive. He pays an extra point for some stuff that just seems good on paper. I used him a fair bit in MKI, and didn't use half of his rules, so what's changed?

The extra wounds are certainly welcome, but the EB seems to vary so much in effectiveness that it almost doesn't seem worth the risk to take it. Sure, he could end up being stronger then the Mauler in combat against the right thing, but there are a total of five beasts in the game which make him on par with the Mauler. Sure, lots of solos pack POW5+ stuff, but you'd squish them anyway with your heavy beast. Elemental Communion is also heavily terrain dependant too. I think I can count on one hand the number of times I've played on a table with water.

Now that he has the same MAT as the Mauler, I just sort of question his role. Every time I look at him, I'm stuck with thinking "Well, I could save a point and take the Mauler, or spend just one more and take Mulg..."

Am I the only one thinking this?

[werecat]

No play experience here, but I have the same concern. Grab and smash is such a fantastic ability, it almost seems like the Mauler should be MORE expensive than the earthborn.

[Steamworks]

He's been doing fine with my eDoomshaper list at 35 points so far. Then again I don't own Mulg or another Mauler yet. If there's a piece of rough terrain on the board he performs well, but he does seem to require some sort of damage buff, once my Mauler is out of the picture he suffers a marked decline in effectiveness.

[Silopolis]

Earthborn: Free Pathfinder, potential to equal or exceed Rage's damage bonus without using an Animus, always has his own Animus for free, +4 damage boxes (if I recall correctly).

Pathfinder + Elemental Communion = EASY +2 SPD on the first charge. So, really, it's almost like he has the Axer's Animus on himself all the time for free, as well (well, anytime he's near rough terrain, which you likely would be, or Pathfinder wouldn't matter).

You can use the Animus to grant someone else +2 SPD (if near rough terrain). Park Doomshaper near a wall, and he's ARM 17 (19 with KSB). Doomshaper with Elemental Communion, near a wall, and the KSB is 6 points shy of the ARM and damage grid of the Bouncer.

In Mk.I, my Earthborn was nearly dead from Idrians. Next round, he snacked back up to full on the Idrians. The following round, he charged over an obstacle and into Feora's face, where he nailed her for 2 POW 19 Claw attacks and tons of Fury to spare. That was back when I had to use the Axer's Animus to give him Pathfinder. Now, I could give him Rage instead, for a total of POW 22.

He's situational, but he's one of the most self-sufficient models we have, and he's even more awesome than he was back in the day (crazy Mk.I double-dipping ARM shenanigans aside). I don't often find water on the table, either, but it's never hard at all to start an activation within 1" of rough terrain or an obstacle/obstruction.

Earthborn is wicked. Love.

[Indy]

The biggest problem, I think, is that he's exactly the same as a Mauler against all but five non-Troll faction beasts. Against almost all of the others, he'll get his +1 POW to be equal, and against a few he'll be worse. Is the highly situational Communion and Pathfinder worth half a Whelp unit, or Swamp Gobbers?

I'm going to try him out on Monday, probably with pDoomie and Mulg against Legion. We'll see how that goes... :P

[Steamworks]

I've found running the Axer up next to the Earthborn's target helps with the power issue. It may not be the best use of an Axer sometimes, but Adaption is from any weapon in the Earthborn's melee range.

Pathfinder is TOTALLY worth the extra point. I've ranted and raved about Elemental Communion and how I'd like to be able to choose which of the 3 stat boosts I'd like each turn, but it didn't seem to gather much support - apparently the answer was to build/place more terrain.

[CerberusPuppy]

He does have Pathfinder innately, and that's worth alot on a beast, especially since he gains speed if he starts in (or near) rough terrain.

What does he do better than the Mauler? Kill jacks. Warjacks usually have pretty high POW on their main weapon. Against them he will usually hit just as hard as the Mauler would have after spending 2 Fury on his animus. Use Rage on the EB and you've got 5 Fury and POW over 20 easily. That will probably kill any jack in the game.

By the same token, the EB makes a pretty good assassin because casters tend to have fairly high POW on their weapons and MAT 6 will hit most casters on a boost. He's not as good in this role as Mulg (who has MAT 7 reach and Overtake) but sometimes Mulg is dead or tied up.

Not up against WM or a warlock? No problem. Just keep an Axer close by, and the Earthborn's POW is a respectable 18.

This is to say nothing of the Elemental Communion ability or the animus.

In short, what the Earthborn does is self buff with no use of Fury or another activation. That combined with Pathfinder is worth the extra point.

[Waaargh]

I have used him in some games now. I like him, where the Mauler is defensive and more of a supporting warbeast the Earthborn is a rocket you send at the opponent. With Mulg I have reached ARM 23, which is real sweet. The dire trolls all hit hard enough to complete their task without Rage, while the Earthborn gives some more ways of delivering the hurt. Being able to throw Transmute around adds options - +2 SPD (running 14" then) or enough ARM to shake of light and medium attacks. I like the Earthborn more then the Mauler.

[Goris]

I've played a few games with the EB and I have to say I am always impressed with his ability to just make things happen. My last bout with Legion nearly ended in the EB trampling his way through 3 models a whopping 13" to get to Thagrosh. Also, his Animus and abilities are anything but situational. It allows you to use him effectively, nearly whatever terrain feature or situation you want. He needs nearly no buffs and has pathfinder.

[theummhmmguy]

typically a SPD 7 pathfinder Heavy Beast... that has a good MAT and is Regularly POW17+. Throw in a pretty good animus on top of that... yes please!

[Indy]

It seems odd to use trees as more of a slingshot then actually charging into/through them, since he can't actually see any better in a forest then anyone else. I'll have to give it a try.

That said, I'm not so sure 'jacks have much better POW then 'beasts do, with some exceptions, though they may have more base str which doesn't help.

And as for using your own guys to buff him to good level... why should I have to spend six more points to make a ten point beast on par with a nine point one that spends some fury/has some spent on it? That seems kinda bass-ackwards to me.

I do agree that Pathfinder is worth a point, though. But he should be base POW4...

[theummhmmguy]

It seems odd to use trees as more of a slingshot then actually charging into/through them, since he can't actually see any better in a forest then anyone else. I'll have to give it a try.

That said, I'm not so sure 'jacks have much better POW then 'beasts do, with some exceptions, though they may have more base str which doesn't help.

And as for using your own guys to buff him to good level... why should I have to spend six more points to make a ten point beast on par with a nine point one that spends some fury/has some spent on it? That seems kinda bass-ackwards to me.

I do agree that Pathfinder is worth a point, though. But he should be base POW4...


Bring him with Grim and give him Hunter... problem solved. There is other rough terrain other than forests or are my lgs the only ones that use hills?

Most jacks have higher pow weapons than his claws... in fact so do almost all warllocks and warcasters. You can't use your own guys to buff him anymore.

POW 4 on the claws kinda negates his own ability, which by the way is a fantastic animus.

[Goris]

Yeah, there are very few drawbacks to the EB, he is just the bees knees as far as heavy's go. Granted we have frickin awesome heavies now! Play him a little bit and you will realize that he is well worth the 10 points.

[Indy]

We have hills, but not any hills that are also rough terrain. Other then that, we have forests, and various ruins and buildings. We break out the river every so often, but as I said earlier, I've used it maybe three times in the past year.

I don't doubt that the EB is good... I do believe that all the Dires are. But it just seems like he's suffering 'middle-child' syndrome of being just a little bit better then the Mauler but more costly, but not as good as Mulg and only a little bit cheaper.

If it broke down 9/10/12 for them, he'd feel better. Or 9/9/11. Yeah, I like that last one... :D

[Goris]

As is, 9/10/11 seems just fine with me. With certain casters, I would take the EB every time. Grim being one of them. You just need to look at it in terms of play style I guess. The EB is an assassination machine. He'll wreck whatever you put him on. The Mauler is a strong beast with an amazing animus. Mulg is the strait up best beat stick we have with reach and a crappy animus. Do what you will with them, but I'll take the middle child more often then not...

[StarmanTTLB]

So, if one were to take an Elemental like the Pyre for a damage buff, could you really leave the Mauler at home in favor of the EB? In a list where one runs a single Heavy, that is.

[Loki77515]

Played my first game with him yesterday and he performed quite admirably.

I really like how all our dires now have individual roles. The Mauler is the cheapest beatstick dire who excels at power attacks thanks to his two open fists, chain attack and Rage. The Blitzer is our ranged dire who isn't afraid to mix it up in melee. The Earthborn is a utilitarian dire who can perform many different roles thanks to the fact that it can get buffs without the help of support models relatively easily. And Mulg is our best dire for just straight up melee beat down.

[theummhmmguy]

So, if one were to take an Elemental like the Pyre for a damage buff, could you really leave the Mauler at home in favor of the EB? In a list where one runs a single Heavy, that is.

Indeed, this right here is the EBDT strength. Being a self-buffer, he suffers little when you leave the other heavies at home.

[Redphantasm]

Power take is great on the EBDT. Remember it can be any model within 0.5" not necessarily a foe. Totem Hunter is great for this, so are other nearby models.

Takeing the POW of a nearby doomreaver because a Kodiak's is too low? Priceless.

Taking the POW 6 of a reckoner to wail on it with P+S 18 attacks? Jawsome

Not to mention the communion abilities. Fast pathfinder charges out of woods, high def in places, hella armor in others.

Last game I took a charge from a full focus + choir Reckoner. Why? Because a nearby obstacle + KSB aura put me ARM 22, and saved me those last few key points.

Mauler and EBDT are strong, but in different ways. Neither is "better" then the other, nor does each have specific situations it needs to excel. They are both just good and different, and thats the kind of choice I like to have.

[Oilslick]

The EBDT gets a nice boost of +2 movement when he destroys a jack. Also you can always run a caber tosser next to him if you absolutely need to wreck something. I think he is best as an answer to jacks as he is usually hitting heavies with their own P+S. Yes the Mauler can do this too, but he needs his animus for this which means no rush. If you run multiple heavy beasts you can have the EBDT supported by the Mauler and Axer. It costs a lot but, you can pull off insane threat ranges or very good threat ranges with excellent power.

[Hiratu]

I'd like to see Transmute/Elemental Communion become more universally useful and less situational. Maybe reduce it to cost 1 and change EC to be like the WW warping abilities where you can choose which one you want each round and reduce them to +1def, +1arm, or +1spd.

What do people think? Unnecessary, too much like the WW, too good, crap?

[Jack Spratt]

I have had similar feelings towards the EBDT for the past many weeks as the OP. I especially felt that the animus should give Pathfinder AND Elemental Communion.

Having read the posts in this thread I have to agree with most people- he is propably ok.

We have pretty cool beasts now... Do not change a thing PP :)

[Stevenswayze]

I have been using this guy lately and he is awe-some. I do not think he is a beast you stick in every list but he is very good.

The list I have been running

eDoomie
Mulg
EBDT
Axer
FennbladesX10
Chronicler
Fell Caller
Whelps
Swamp Gobbers
(note: I interchange the Thumper with Fell Caller, or I take the Gobbers and Fell Caller out for the Runeshapers, it just depends on how I feel, but I just think the above one is slightly better then the other permutations).

Anyways the EBDT has just been straight money. I have to confess when I played him at first(a single time) and just did theory machine, I hated his animus so much, and just felt a Mauler was always hands down a better choice.

Not anymore. In the above list he can bust people off your flanks, and keep people from exploiting terain to get you. MOreso his animus is actually handy for eDoom to cast on himself for free. His biggest thing is his massive threat.

In one game I moved up popped my feat and sent in Mulg, after casting the Axer animus on Mulg AND the Earthborn. I sent in Mulg first and set it up with the AYGTET move, then got the Spd+3+3+2+2(reach) we all know Mulgs threat. So Mulg Kills a Rhinodon, and puts 12 points of damage on Molik Karn, but I was unable to Goad to Makeda because he had gone almost out of my control range.

Next I send in the EBDT and he gets to almost the same spot! SPD7+3+3+2 for a 15" rocket, that again would have easily been able to goad to Makeda if I had not made a slight miscalculation on Hoarluks movement. Ugh, I just did not realize what I had at the time.

Since then I have made it a point to use the EBDT with other lists. Ones that used the Nys Sorceress, or Grim Angus, to do just nasty things. The other grea tthing about him is that hes self suffecient, which I really like in Warbeasts. He does not need POW buffs, so he can load up on Speed. The mauler on the other hand means his animus is actively slowing you down. I think if you want to play aggressively you leaver the Mauler at home, and get on board with the EBDT.

Absolutely love him, and I think his niche in purpose, and point cost is fine.

I think they could do something slightly better with his Animus, and still not have to increase his point cost but at this point Animi are like trying to write a new song with a unique message which is almost impossible. I thought of a few, I submitted, but much like the Fennblades if he changes not at all, I am ready to field him happily anyways.

Just tossing my opinion into the "he's fine" side.

[Hatred]

At first glance I thought the same thing, why would I take this dude over the mauler. So I finally bit the bullet and fielded him and I was more than a little surprised at what had transpired.

His threat range is just unexpected and out of control. Also Adaptation is nice as has been said he auto buffs himself usually right up to straight dice on jacks. On almost every caster he is buffing to +3(avg). The ppl that dont think many things will buff his POW need to remember he is only a POW 3 weapon, so almost everything in the game actually has a higher POW weapon.

Give him and Mulg an actual useable animus and there would really be nothing more to complain about.

[Hiratu]

I agree their animi are the weak points to both models. Nobody seems to be concerned about it though since their stats and other abilities are good. I'd like to see them change, but it won't happen if no one else shares that opinion.

[azaminkor]

His animus needs to grant pathfinder... It was why EC was bad back in the day. To get its bonus usually meant getting bogged down. That is why Pathfinder on him is so great. Other than that I think he is fine.

I would like for to have a leadership abilty akin to the other "fake character" warbeast. I would suggest increase regen while in his command range or free regen. But that is just wishing. Though he had d6 regeneration before.

[frazerpenman]

The earthborn himself is pretty much the same monster he was in mk1 with added pathfinder to make life easier. I did submit feedback that it would streamline things if he just had warpings like the warpwolves do but he is still a fine pocket rocket. Though I personally expect he will still be more effective against jacks due to their high power weapons compared to Hordes (I've only played against Warmachine). I've yet to get any good use out of his animus though this is probably because I cast it as an afterthought to generate fury rather than with a plan in mind.

[beakerkd]

I am a big fan of the EBDT with almost all the warlocks I use. I find him to be a good caster killer since most have high pow on their weapons.
One thing I find handy is you dont have to cast his animus on himself. I have found he will kill almost anything in one turn he has kill a C-rex, Nephilim soldier, eThagrosh, destroyer ,vlad as well as a heap of troops.

I have to say every time he is on the table he makes his points back and more.

The biggest draw back is his animus like a lot of ppl have said.

[Goris]

I think his animus is better then it was in MKI by a lot, simply because now you don't have to be tied to another model to get any use out of it. Now, if you gave his animus pathfinder and elemental communion....that would be bonkers...

[Ger]

Caber thrower having Pow 7 is a great point. I'm presently looking through infantry. Most of your other infantry appears to be at least Pow 4. With Fennblades/Long Riders/Champion solo being pow 5. Horthol has a Pow 6. Your ranged stuff (pygs/scattergunners) are equivalent pow 3s. However, it looks easy for you to rig some sort of bonus to an Earthborn off your own units.

Similiarly your looking at being very likely to have a boost just from what your attacking. Few targets will have only pow 3 weapons.

Certainly a Warbeast whose value is hard to estimate on paper in comparison to play.

[ChronoCrusher]

I would still prefer that the Earthborn got his Metamorphsis back. That extra arm was always nice.

[theummhmmguy]

I would still prefer that the Earthborn got his Metamorphsis back. That extra arm was always nice.


I like his new animus much much better. Bring Gators and park you caster next to water. WIth the Kriel Stone on top of that you give you caster +2 DEF and +2 ARM. Our casters are the few models in our army that benefit from higher DEF as their base DEF is above the ARM/DEF curve.

[Steamworks]

Bring Gators and park you caster next to water.

Gatormen can't make swamps anymore.

[azaminkor]

Gatormen can't make swamps anymore.
Which was the only way I ever saw any water.

[theummhmmguy]

Well then when you setup your table put water on the table. His animus is that good.

[Goris]

also so you can slam jacks into it...cause the thumper was made for just such and occasion....

[Mael]

why should I have to spend six more points to make a ten point beast on par with a nine point one?

He also works really well in conjunction with the Earthborn. I was hitting a Crusader for P+S22 under rage and adaptation. Granted, Mulg could do the same thing at under range for one point more - but that's one point I don't need to spend if my enemy has POW7 weapons kicking around.

[azaminkor]

Well then when you setup your table put water on the table. His animus is that good.
I hardly play in any games where I setup the terrain. Our PG sets up the boards. And every WM player gripes about Water because of its ridiculously adverse effects on jacks ( I mean when I am playing WM I hate for water to be anywhere).

His animus isn't really that good, it is okay. But you are basically trading some functionality on the model you use it on to gain its benefits. General, to me, it seems that his animus is a detrement to model you use it on. EC is great on the EBDT or any model with pathfinder.

[Faultie]

I've found him great against Warjacks, since most have much higher POW weapons than just 3. Ice Axes, War Lances, etc. are nice.

I've even gotten him to use an Uhlan's Blasting Lance in one game (hurray P+S22!)

[Dougernaut]

The EBDT is dead sexy in most of the games I've played him with. The combination of putting the DTM's animus or the Pyre or Slag's on him before he goes in is pretty satisfying. So far my favorite moment with him was when he got Rage and eDoomy's spell Refuge, combined with the feat, so he went sailing across the field to wail on a Juggernaut (POW 7 axe ftw!) and almost reduce him to scrap, including taking out his movement, then retreating 5 inches away next to a wall for +2 ARM, out of position from retaliation. At that point I imagined him grinning smugly at the entire Khador army and licking his chops in satisfaction.

[Verjigorm]

If you look at my signature, you'll see that I obviously have some opinions on water. It's a snide take o nthe issue, but the general idea is that people hate water, and go out of their way to take it out of the game. As a player with a huge number of pirates, i'm upset when i don't get to use my ampibious jacks, because people are terrified of shallow water. And i'm finally fed up with it:

People, water is water. Ok. It makes jacks really threatened if they land in it, but that's it. Stop playing without it people, it's an inbuilt portion of the game, and it effects us mostly equally. Let us have our water!

I'm going to star clamouring for water again at my local group.

[Cannibalbob]

If you look at my signature, you'll see that I obviously have some opinions on water. It's a snide take o nthe issue, but the general idea is that people hate water, and go out of their way to take it out of the game. As a player with a huge number of pirates, i'm upset when i don't get to use my ampibious jacks, because people are terrified of shallow water. And i'm finally fed up with it:

People, water is water. Ok. It makes jacks really threatened if they land in it, but that's it. Stop playing without it people, it's an inbuilt portion of the game, and it effects us mostly equally. Let us have our water!

I'm going to star clamouring for water again at my local group.


Water is often put on the table in my area.


As to the Earthborn, I think he is a fine beast and has a nice place in the army. He is generally the fastest and most mobile of the heavies. When you combine this with his ability to self-buff his pow he becomes a very good heavy for operating solo and flanking. None of our other heavies combine speed and self-sufficiency like he does.

However, he is easily eclipsed by Mulg in the role of straight-up brawler. This is fine, as that is really Mulg's current role. However, I think a lot of us are used to that role belonging to the Earthborn over the last few years, and it is taking a bit for many people to adjust to his new role.

Try him as a flanker in your mobility-based lists - he excels at that role.

[Verjigorm]

Water is often put on the table in my area.


As to the Earthborn, I think he is a fine beast and has a nice place in the army. He is generally the fastest and most mobile of the heavies. When you combine this with his ability to self-buff his pow he becomes a very good heavy for operating solo and flanking. None of our other heavies combine speed and self-sufficiency like he does.

However, he is easily eclipsed by Mulg in the role of straight-up brawler. This is fine, as that is really Mulg's current role. However, I think a lot of us are used to that role belonging to the Earthborn over the last few years, and it is taking a bit for many people to adjust to his new role.

Try him as a flanker in your mobility-based lists - he excels at that role.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I love the EB. Having innate pathfinder is very handy for getting charges, and he trucks through forests and ponds. It's just i do think it's funny how many times peopel complain about water features in the game.

I like the EBDT, and he works well as a first line of assault, while my mauler and axer lurk behind, using their animi to good effect before going into the thick of it. That's what I like about the EB in particular: He's much quicker to get up the field and stuck in, which had it's definite advantages when he's going to pound on something that thought it was safe. Long range tramples through forests can get around the lack of LOS as well.

Over-all i've been impressed by his, admittedly few, perfomances for me.

[goran75]

He does have Pathfinder innately, and that's worth alot on a beast, especially since he gains speed if he starts in (or near) rough terrain.

What does he do better than the Mauler? Kill jacks. Warjacks usually have pretty high POW on their main weapon. Against them he will usually hit just as hard as the Mauler would have after spending 2 Fury on his animus. Use Rage on the EB and you've got 5 Fury and POW over 20 easily. That will probably kill any jack in the game.

By the same token, the EB makes a pretty good assassin because casters tend to have fairly high POW on their weapons and MAT 6 will hit most casters on a boost. He's not as good in this role as Mulg (who has MAT 7 reach and Overtake) but sometimes Mulg is dead or tied up.

Not up against WM or a warlock? No problem. Just keep an Axer close by, and the Earthborn's POW is a respectable 18.

This is to say nothing of the Elemental Communion ability or the animus.

In short, what the Earthborn does is self buff with no use of Fury or another activation. That combined with Pathfinder is worth the extra point.

I couldnt agree more... I love my EBDT. with Grim he is a rocket propelled train of doom... threatening things that strayed too close to a "slow" faction... and he bullets "over the river and through the woods". throw the axer animus on him and he has increased his range even further. All this with minimun fury generation, thereby letting him go all out on his target. Truthfully, I have never used his animus (MK1 or MK2) since I was too busy wrecking faces (surprised faces) with a heavy that runs assassination.

The mauler is the ruler by which to measure all our beasts. He has a great solid animus that can be used whenever, he is solid in all stats, ect. there outta be room for both in any true-blue list.

[Stevenswayze]

I agree their animi are the weak points to both models. Nobody seems to be concerned about it though since their stats and other abilities are good. I'd like to see them change, but it won't happen if no one else shares that opinion.

I also would like to see a better animus, or one that was more usable, but seeing Skorne, I feel like we should take what we have and run for dear life. I almost dont want them touching my Trolls for fear they wind up like Skorne and sucking worse.

[countbrass]

I just used the EBDT and Mulg in an eDoomie list (35pts) playing against Skorne. He was a threatening Silverback Ape hitting and hiding in the tree lines but he did his damage before Mulg mopped up :) . Well worth the extra point Id say!

[Mael]

Try him as a flanker in your mobility-based lists - he excels at that role.

"So we were squaring off against these Trollkin and this Massive Dire Troll came out of nowhere man, nowhere! Just smashing through the trees into an Ironclad and ripped it's arms off!

We managed to level a chaingun at it but it but it ate Johnson and Williams and it's skin knitted back together! I pray I never have to fight one again."

- Regina Stormfist, Journeyman Warcaster


I almost dont want them touching my Trolls for fear they wind up like Skorne and sucking worse.

Come now, don't be greedy. It's your job to ensure that your foce is balanced. The field test isn't a game of "steal all the buffs you can".

[Verjigorm]

Mael, this isn't a case of wanting to be greedy, this is a case of having a fairly working force, and I would hate if we got any of the Skorne Animi, they're all terrible.

[Sevwall]

Train Wreck is not bad. Neither is Prescience. Neither is Safeguard. Neither is Diminish. Neither is Rush. Neither is Lurker. Neither is Paralytic Aura.

Sure, some posters like to whine a lot. Lets not confuse that with facts.

[theummhmmguy]

I'll say it again, I like the new EBDT animus better than the old one. It adds pretty danged good versatility to whatever its on.

As to the comment about not putting up your own terrain and letting your PG do all the work I have two things to say about that.

1~If your PG is setting up the terrain every single week and not ever putting water in he might think about a pond now and again.
2~You really never ever setup your own terrain? My guys set their own terrain every week except during our tourneys every six weeks.

[Stevenswayze]

Come now, don't be greedy. It's your job to ensure that your foce is balanced. The field test isn't a game of "steal all the buffs you can".

I am not sure if my meaning was taken correctly. I was saying that I do not want the eyes of Mordor looking at our faction for fear they turn us into Skorne(not that we will be more like Skorne in Gameplay, just in suckage).

The watchful eye is lurking, we need those elven cloaks!

Overal I am happy with a lot of the rough around the edges choices is all. The EBDT, the Fennblades I have been happy to field at the points costed. If changing them changes the point costs, or causes a dramatic overhaul which has a negative cascading effect on the faction.

[bakaryu]

Perhaps a simple change (if any as I like the EBDT as it is) would be to give him:

Leadership [Dire Trolls]
Dire Trolls in this model's command range automatically gain Pathfinder.

I considered the leadership ability to be automatically gain Elemental Communion, but perhaps that would have been too good an ability to give out for free (even if it is only to other heavies in a 5" circle around him).

[Goris]

Perhaps a simple change (if any as I like the EBDT as it is) would be to give him:

Leadership [Dire Trolls]
Dire Trolls in this model's command range automatically gain Pathfinder.

I considered the leadership ability to be automatically gain Elemental Communion, but perhaps that would have been too good an ability to give out for free (even if it is only to other heavies in a 5" circle around him).

Too strong...to put it simply...then you have a pathfinder Mulg charging out of forests with the same speed at the EB, better Pow and Reach, not to mention potentially being Armor 21 or def 13 depending. Now put that on every beast we have... Silly. A novel idea I must say, but that makes our heavies way to strong for their points. I do believe however if you give someone the Elemental Communion Animus, that it should include pathfinder. This would be nice, and not too broken IMHO.

[Indy]

The status of 'Alpha' warbeast is sort of amusing. Currently there are really only two; the Bronzeback, and the Pureblood. The Angellius isn't really one and never really was, and they took it away from the Earthborn. I think this has to do with there being a bigger Dire Troll around. If we wanted to see any sort of 'Alpha' abilities return or get added, they'd all have to stipulate non-character Dire Trolls, I think. As if Mulg would just listen to some puny Earthborn runt just because. :P

[Lee T]

I hardly play in any games where I setup the terrain. Our PG sets up the boards.
As far as I'm concerned terrain and setting up terrain is an integral part of the game. What's the point of having so many minis with terrain rules on them plus a full chapter of the book about it if you never get's to use them unless you get lucky. I would at least ask permission to rearrange the terrain on the table with my opponent.

And every WM player gripes about Water because of its ridiculously adverse effects on jacks ( I mean when I am playing WM I hate for water to be anywhere).They should consider water as a reason to use more power attacks :) .

[bakaryu]

In my club the table is always set up by a neutral, but each player picks 2 terrain pieces and the neutral picks two or more pieces himself.

Always leads to an interesting game where people are not hosed because a terrain type that has a big say on their game style wasn't present.

[beakerkd]

We have done it with the tables preset as well. Not the biggest fan unless its a comp.

One one we do it is you place one piece of terrain then its the other persons turn till u finished. It works ok since most of the ppl I play against like a fun game and not a one sided match.

With the EBDT if I can find some water terrain to put on the table I will always try to use it.

[theummhmmguy]

We have done it with the tables preset as well. Not the biggest fan unless its a comp.

One one we do it is you place one piece of terrain then its the other persons turn till u finished. It works ok since most of the ppl I play against like a fun game and not a one sided match.

With the EBDT if I can find some water terrain to put on the table I will always try to use it.

This is pretty close to what the book says to do.

[beakerkd]

This is pretty close to what the book says to do.

And it works who would of thought :)


I have seen ppl try to stack the terrain to work for them then the other person wins the roll to set up first and they take the stacked side. NO one tries to make a unfair game at the game club I go to now.

[theummhmmguy]

And it works who would of thought :)


I have seen ppl try to stack the terrain to work for them then the other person wins the roll to set up first and they take the stacked side. NO one tries to make a unfair game at the game club I go to now.

Yeah our club sets up terrain pretty fairly. The biggest problem they have is the lack of terrain. Each guy puts a small non rough hill near each deployment zone, the some token small forests off to the side and out of the way. It works but makes the terrain a non-issue most games.

It just means in the tourneys I place a few more peices of terrain to mess up lines in the middle.