Kayazi's-I want to use them, talk me into it!

[Trolldrake]

I really like the Kayazi Assassins. I actually like the sculpts (reminds me of Inglorious Basterds) and like their fluff and they dont look too bad to me. I understand they are not as good as they were in MK1 but i still see some potential in them particularly with Buther and Irusk. Being new to khador i have been making posts like this on here lately askin for pointers on models i like that dont seem to get much love on the forums, like the Old Witch and Herne&Jonne, and have gotten some nice and helpful feedback. So now im askin for some opinions on these guys and how good they can be and which casters, solos, and units they have nice synergy or work well in lists with. As usual any advice and feedback is greatly appreciated!

[Aries37]

Natural DEF 16 in melee, DEF 19 with iron flesh...and stealth.

Nothing tarpits like kayazy and a lot of lists simply can't deal with DEF that high.

[LACK OF SUBTLETY]

First, only run them with the Underboss, they shine with him.

Kayazy are one of our most synergistic units. Almost every caster (except karchev) has a spell that makes them more awesome. Which is hard to do when they are so good on their own.

When you have two of them engaging one target (whether they both plan on attacking it or not) they swing at it at MAT 9, Pow 12. That makes them as likely to hit as the butcher and hit almost as hard as Iron Fangs. All while being substantially harder to hit.

Plus, they're swordfighting mobsters.

[marskitten]

Kayazy work great for 3 reasons.
1. Combat badasses. Simply put, with gang they're the best all purpose infantry in the game. High mat pretty much means they'll hit and the pow is high enough to be good against most things. On charge or/and buffed and they're monsters.
2. Parry, stealth, defense. The ability to duck in and out of combat at will makes them an excellent alpha striker, arc node tie up or just being able to get the hell out of the way. There's many hardcore games where I got stuck behind tarpitted IFPs and the game went to lose-by-tie. They should run/charge every turn till they get to something worth killing
3. Killstroke. Means you always get the charge when you need it. Ignore the bastions or MoW:ST in the way and just stab it

casters who love them:
Zerkova - Stealth, high def and banishing ward are a nice combo
Anyone with Iron Flesh - OW, Irusk, eSorscha, Butcher = def 17-19
Anyone with melee buffs - Butcher, Irusk, Vlad - mat 9, pow 12

Downside: Armor. Anything that ignores defense (aoes, chain lightning) should be a worry. And should make you think twice about fielding them as your only or main win condition except at the lowest of point levels. But with the underboss command you should be able to keep a good spread and limit losses.

Casters who suck with them:
pSorscha - at mat 7-9 they don't really need autohit. Stealth is nice for not block feat's los. boundless charge and fog of war do little for the unit but do not help sorscha at all since they don't block los to her
Karchev - no unit/warrior buffs at all. Any of the large units serve him just the same.
What you should do is either field them in conjunction with the winterguard or IFP (usually in front of). That or have a damn good distraction to keep fire off of them like beast 09, behemoth, bears, doom reavers or something to force them between shelling the assassins or X. Because of their speed, and defense they usually can and will get to their target and be able to kill it. Very few armies can deal with the assassins before they get into melee, or even once they're there.

Unless those are the only targets you've presented them.

[Shadow37]

KAs are one of the few units I feel comfortable upkeeping Iron Flesh on. Very rarely does my opponent allow me to get the charge off with my KAs. Most of the time I run them into combat with Iron Flesh. Running 10" is usually good enough.

I like being able to upkeep IF on them so I dont have to risk having my warcaster keep up with them to recast the spell. Saving a focus is a good thing as well :)

[Bearded Dragon]

I really like them with Butcher. Toss Fury on them and...ouch. Defense 15 in melee still is really good. Fury, Feat and Kill Stroke will end warcasters fast.

Old Witch is good with them too because of her ability to give them pathfinder.

Still, the best warcaster with them is Gorten Grundback. Solid Ground saves them from AOE death, his feat drags things into range for massive Kill Stroke casualties, and he can take Rupert.

Just remember, they are a mat 9 power 12 unit for 8 points. The only downside they really have is their armor sucks.

[Avecrien]

They tarpit. They assassinate. They mini-feat to walk through the enemy's defense and stabit the caster. They're fast enough to keep them tied up with the appropriate opponents while our tougher melees handle the Kayazy's foils.
I really love them with Irusk and Butcher, but they're also a ton of fun when you can fit them into an eVlad list and a few survive for the feat.

[Beastman]

Wow, you guys just convinced me to get some too.

[riven5]

Also keep eIrusk in mind. Artifice of Deviation allows friendly models to move through enemy models, although they are still susceptible to freestrikes.

Except the Kayazy aren't.

Even outside of their minifeat turn the Kayazy can, with eIrusks help, scoot past anything and anybody that is in their way. Unless your opponent is exceptionally cautious and manages to totally block LOS for your unit, you can often position your Kayazy in a way to find LOS to a juicy target, and charge. Through intervening models, and rough terrain.

Even if you utterly lack LOS you can upkeep Tactical Supremacy on them to really maximize the depth at which they can plunge into the enemies lines. Now consider just how far grunts can space out away from the Underboss- use this to set up multiple angles of attack on the opposing warcaster, thus creating the distinct possibility of a few Kayazy charging into his back arc one way or another.

Now add Battle Lust to the equation. Two charging Kayazy get into a warcasters back arc. A best case scenario, clearly, but we're still talking about a pair of MAT 9, 12+5d6 attacks.

[Aries37]

Now add Battle Lust to the equation. Two charging Kayazy get into a warcasters back arc. A best case scenario, clearly, but we're still talking about a pair of MAT 9, 12+5d6 attacks.
Well if you've got back arc it's mat 11 ;)

[HannibalTheGreat]

I´m also fairly new to Khador and I´m also impressed by the Kayazi, though I run them with eVlad just to have some super assasination tool on feat turn.

HTG

[Caecus Scius]

I killed a Chimera with just 3 charging in... and a few turns later killed the crap out of a slightly damaged Pheonix (ok he was messed up pretty bad.)

With iron flesh, they are untouchable by most of your opponents guys.

I run them with the butcher and with both Vlads. With the butcher they are nasty... you can give them iron flesh, and then switch to fury and feat if you absolutely positively have to kill whatever it is you are within 8" of... I ussually run them into the front lines of my enemy, then use the mini feat to charge what I want dead.

With Vlad, you have him run up with his jacks in windwall formation, and then have the kayzay run around a flank. With S&P they are strong as can be.

[studderingdave]

as a khador player i was always iffy on them, but now im playing mercs as well, im adding them in with gorten.

[Tevesh]

I'm getting the feeling that people don't know how Back Stab works, as you're all talking about running up behind somebody and getting all these bonuses.

A Back Strike means you need to start your activation in your opponent's back arc. The Back Stab rules for the most part are gravy. I think the only Warcaster who would consistantly get Back Strikes are eIrusk, due to Tactical Supremacy. You run the Kayazy's up to the opposing squad, and then use Tactical Supremacy to maneuver Kayazy's all around their targets so no matter how the model turns a Kayazy will be in his back arc.

[marskitten]

Backstrikes are rare. But nice when I have a unit/caster surrounded after killstroke

[riven5]

I think the only Warcaster who would consistantly get Back Strikes are eIrusk, due to Tactical Supremacy. You run the Kayazy's up to the opposing squad, and then use Tactical Supremacy to maneuver Kayazy's all around their targets so no matter how the model turns a Kayazy will be in his back arc.

Agreed. I've only pulled off 2 or 3 backstabs with my Kayazy, but when it happened it was pretty mean. I really think eIrusk is the best man for the job when it comes to setting up potential back strike situations.

[rvrchamp]

Backstrike seems to fit their "fluff" but in all honestly I don't think I have ever used this ability. Trust me... I've tried! It's just so situational, and often I'm more concerned with actually getting the Kayazy into combat that the benifit of washing another turn or two positioning myself just doesn't seem worthwhile.

/shrug

I'm still a little sad they lost riposte, though I understand why.

[Avecrien]

The loss of riposte broke my feelings. I'd happily pay more for the unit if they'd kept it, and/or accepted a smaller unit. Of course this willingness may be a part of that whole 'why' thing ;)

[Electric Seal]

I'm with the majority who don't like the look of the models. Any ideas for a proxy? (Yes, I know I can't in tourneys etc etc).

[Tevesh]

I'm with the majority who don't like the look of the models. Any ideas for a proxy? (Yes, I know I can't in tourneys etc etc).

There was a post a while ago where someone used Daughters of the Flame models, some Reaper minis and I think one or two GW Sisters of Battle to make an all-female Kayazy proxy squad. It was pretty nifty.

[Kevin B]

Well I must admit due to my dislike of the models I didnt really bother looking at teh info on them too much but after reading this you have convinced me of their uses.

I think I could see myself adding them into my upgrade from 35pts to 50pts but might have to look around for other models - maybe GW empire bowmen, need to check sizes...