eKaya and Ranged

[Archimedes the Dog]

I played in a 15-point Tooth 'n' Claw/Mangled Metal tournament today (I had 2 wins, 2 losses).

The last game was very frustrating. Grim Angus, an Impaler, a Bomber, and something else (Slag Troll?) was my opponent's force. Basically, he advanced, I advanced, and then he started backing away and trying to snipe Laris. After a few turns I tried maneuvering around the side but Grim managed to get a shot on Kaya and knocked her down then dropped a barrel full of gunpowder on her. I never quite got the whole battlegroup into range to drop Dog Pile or get a good charge off.

Not really sure how to compete with this backing up tactic when my opponent has True Sight etc. Advice is sought.

I ran:

eKaya
Laris
Feral
Pureblood

[eliassmith27]

Run until you get into position. Hide Laris and eKaya behind your heavies. If he ignores stealth then he can't draw line of sight to your softer targets. The back up and shoot strategy is always a pain to deal with.

Also I'd trade the feral for a stalker and the pureblood for a gnarlhorn. This increases your threat range, charge accuracy, and damage out-put. It also deals with shredder swarm against leagon.

[Archimedes the Dog]

I used that strategy earlier and another opponent tried to slam the feral into Kaya and Laris. He missed, but I got leery of stacking them one in front of another.

[studderingdave]

just gotta tell ya that sometimes your gonna face lists that just dont care about stealth. its really hard at those low points to deal with it as well. i understand from both ends since i play eKaya and grim angus.

[Cyryst]

This is interesting, I go up against a cygnar force that plays quite similar, im not really sure what i should/can do about it.
is there any good advice out there for this?

[Kineath]

or you could run laris up 14" eKaya pops her feat and spiritshifts in front of Laris. then both heavies teleport into melee range of the enemy's beasts. ranged warbeasts aren't that good in fighting melee battles. good placement is all you'll need and he will be at the very least taking freestrikes.

[TrollSlayer]

This is interesting, I go up against a cygnar force that plays quite similar, im not really sure what i should/can do about it.
is there any good advice out there for this?

When dealing with people who ignore Stealth it is best to bring stuff with either high DEF or high ARM. Bloodtrackers, Wold's are good ideas, and remember that Forced Evolution can make that Warpwolf DEF 16, hard to hit without CMA or big boosts. Also, block LOS with forests, Druid clouds or Gobber smoke.

[Archimedes the Dog]

or you could run laris up 14" eKaya pops her feat and spiritshifts in front of Laris. then both heavies teleport into melee range of the enemy's beasts. ranged warbeasts aren't that good in fighting melee battles. good placement is all you'll need and he will be at the very least taking freestrikes.

The feat teleport is end of activation for the beasts, so they can;t attack. I think on undamaged warbeasts he'd go ahead and take the freestrikes to back up and pound on Kaya once I had hung her out there.

[CECILOFS]

You can sometimes do it so that all of your army ends up next to his caster, especially at low point games. That will usually mean he's as good as dead if he's a shooty type like Grim.

One thing you can try is hiding behind buildings/forests to block LOS and when they come close, tag them with dogpile, warp ghostly and charge through the building/forest :) Works exactly once against each opponent >_<

[Archimedes the Dog]

The problem is that he refused to come close. And there was no scenario. I guess I could have just stood off and tried to wait him out.

[Kyuss]

Yes - you could have waited it out. Once you are in that range, you're only going to need Laris and eKaya for the shift assasination. If the two heavies are the sacrafice, so be it.

[mazgier]

And there was no scenario. That's where the problem is. All the mythical "gunline" armies are simply suited for plain casterkill only games.

[Phatheadaf]

if he is ending his turns w/in his gun range of you then he should be losing those models next turn, no? Even if he does ignore stealth, and he does a lot of dmg to one warbeast, he'd be hard pressed to take one out entirely. Also the above noted Spirit Shift assasination too, that is always a possibility in small games like this.

2-2 and still go tho man! Maybe try a Gnarlhorn and a Stalker next time... you might like the combo...

A.

[HenryWard]

As the Grim player in that game, hopefully contributing my thought process might help in breaking it down.

In my mind, that matchup was all about removing Laris as quickly and safely as possible. Including his 6" walk, Grim can remove stealth from one of your beasts from 14", which is longer than your Warpwolves can charge, and that frees the Bomber/etc. to drop hurt on you from 12" out. Laris is the wildcard, since he gives Kaya a threat range comparable to Grim's 17" (with Far Strike) gunshot.

Ergo, my strategy was explicitly *not* to commit until I had Laris off the table, and could then better control the rest of the engagement. Had you shielded Laris with Wolves, I'd have just started shooting the Wolves instead, trying to pick one off so that I'd be up in VPs and force you to commit.

I agree totally that the lack of scenario was a major contributing factor in enabling me to do this, and frankly I was indeed consciously playing to maximize my threat range advantage and neutralize your major threat while minimizing your ability to retaliate. But at a tournament, I'll do that as needed - I'm just sorry it made for a pretty lousy game.

[Archimedes the Dog]

No worries. You played very well and entirely within the boundaries of the tournament format (and understandably playing for the win).

Any opportunity to learn is valuable (in games or in life) and rewarding. My frustration is that I feel I learned very little.

[lsarofeen]

ekaya and laris have over a 20" threat when laris slings her in with 2 heavies. my hope and angle is that i have purchase on engaging my enemy caster with the heavies in that tactic. laris with forced evo and maybe possibly in some concealment gives him a 19d, if he needs to take the first shot the hard way.. for their sake, i hope they kill him.

spread the net is always a pain in the arse but that's riskn' it and thats why we play ekaya right?

cygnar hayley shut me down hard with her run/charge preventing spell, some solo that removes stealth, and a gunline. i had no chance.