What parts of MK1 do you still miss? A Nostalgia thread.

[ChainGun]

MK2 is here and I love it. I love the face that I can field warjacks without feeling stupid, I love the fact that I can play pSorscha and eVlad without feeling embarrassment and I love the fact that newcomers don't need to memorize a gazzilion different names for the same spell/ability. I also enjoy the fact that facing Kruger or Darius these days is not an auto-lose like it was before. Having said that, let's talk about the parts in MK1 you do miss.

-I miss sending the Old Witch into the heart of my opponent's ranks and having her slaughter half his army
-I miss my old Greylords, the ultimate Swiss army knife
-I miss how my beloved Destroyer was the best warjack in the game
-I miss the insane threat range of my Iron Fangs pikemen
-I miss the look of horror in my opponent's eyes whenever I fielded two mortar

What parts of MK1 do you still miss?

[digitalme]

I miss Flying Steel on the Drakhun

[Musketeer]

Destroyer the best jack in the game? We must have been playing differrent games. I do agree with much of what you say though.

The nerf hammer taken to the Old Witch really bugs me.

What I really miss is the insane brutality of the mk I Kayazny Assasins with the UA. The old rules for ventilate were just incredible allowing Darius to die the death of a thousand cuts. Likewise riposte was plain mean. Running those guys into melée through smoke to engage trenchers with iron flesh and riposte in effect was a death setence for the trenchers.

[Col_Festus]

The more I play Khador the more it seems they were the faction hit with the nerf hammer the hardest. Other factions seem to have made the MKI-MKII transition alot better.

[Michael]

I never got to play the Old Witch in MK I, so I can't miss that. I do often find myself wishing for a better Unseen Path, though...

I do kind of miss the over-the-top awesome of Mortar Crews. Man, 3 points just seems like too much now, and I rarely find myself fielding them anymore... (That's bad, considering I own four of them.)

I miss being at least having the option to play a two or three-caster game in anything less than 24 hours of play. I've never yet seen a 100 point or larger game played in MK II, which makes me sad. I want to play something that big! Alas, I'm never going to be able to field my three units of Widowmakers at once.... /sigh

[AvatarOfWhoa]

The more I play Khador the more it seems they were the faction hit with the nerf hammer the hardest. Other factions seem to have made the MKI-MKII transition alot better.
I don't think that's true at all. C_F, you seem really down on Khador lately. Can we please not turn this into another "Cryx is too strong; Khador can't compete" thread?

On topic: The only things I miss even remotely about MkI were:

-pVlad who could cast both S&P and BoK in the same turn
-Old Witch who could pop her feat from Scrappy
-The majesty of the MkI Drakhun (which pretty much just means "flying steel")

[GlassJaw]

The only thing I really miss is being able to run and shoot with the Behemoth, especially with pVlad. Oh, that and pIrusk's feat working on magic attacks - I loved his feat turn with Greylords.

There are other things that were definitely better in MK I but needed to be changed.

And a lot of the things people are mentioning - Greylords and mortars especially - didn't really change that much, they just got a little more expensive.

[Auracco]

I miss riposte on the Kayazy, the old flare on the spriggan and flashbang on the spriggan.

[Cambeul]

Mk1 eVlad - personally I do not miss it but man o man.
Flying Drakhun - now that I miss, or even the Flying Beast-09
Great Bears of Gallowswood

[Khador247]

I agree with most of what has already been mentioned.

Drakhun & Yuri having Flying Steel. At least Yuri got thresher though.
+4 DEF from Wind Rush instead of +2.
Running and shooting with Behemoth.
Beast 09's third attack (though he's still awesome without it).
The extra movement from the Pikemen UA.
Demo Corps., Greylords, and Mortars being cheap to field.
Old Witch. I didn't use her much in MKI. I never use her now.
PVlad's S&P AND BoK both going up to four focus to cast.
Great Bears getting +2 DEF while in btb.
EVlad's feat. It was overpowered in MKI but I think they went too far with the nerf.
Hammerfist on Kodiaks.
Extra wounds on Uhlans and Great Bears.
Great Bears charging through IFP.

Those are the biggest for me. All that being said I like the game a lot better in MKII than MKI.

[relasine]

I miss Ogrun Bokur hitting harder than heavy warjacks.

[DoktorVivi]

Flying Steel on the Drakhun. Hammerfists on the Kodiak. Flashbang on the Spriggan. Old Witch Feat on Scrapjack.

[studderingdave]

flying steel on the drakhun for sure. i miss killing blow of butcher despite the cost of 2 is always better spent on 2 more attacks. man, i REALLY miss vlads weapon mimic ability, it was really fun to copy enemy warcaster weapons, or hit with lola power when playing 2 caster games with butcher.

[OrsusSmash]

Out of all the things that changed between Mk. 1 and Mk. 2, I only miss a few things:

- The old "+2 to charge attacks" on Battle Wizard. Though now that this is a more universal ability, I understand them not wanting to proliferate charge attack bonuses.
- Vlad's Mimic. It was a rules cluster**** in some cases, but it was always really fun to turn your opponent's best weapon attributes against them.
- Devastator's Rain of Death not being blast damage. Really, it only makes perfect sense for it to be blast damage, but now that Mk. 2 has a fair number "blast immune" models, it would be awesome to know that the Devastator was as ubiquitously useful as he was in Mk. 1.
- Markov having Relentless Charge. I just want him to match his Uhlans. :p

I love Mk. 2 Khador. We have a really good "wheat::chaff" ratio going on, and its made list making a helluva lot more fun than it used to be.

[Shadow37]

I too miss the awesomeness of the Drakhun. I really wish they gave him back swing in place of Flying Steel.

The relative price of Demo Corps.

Karchev's Iron Curtain spell. I understand why they got rid of it, but I still enjoyed how unique the spell was.

Greylords...

[Rogue Sun]

I miss ARM 16 actually being somewhat difficult to get through.

[sarukamate]

It's not Khador specific, but I miss being able to take an eight-man unit. That used to be my unit size of choice (followed by max followed by min units). I now have loads of units with two "spare" models I spent time painting which I can't use OR I have to go out, buy another blister and get painting again on a unit I considered complete.

[OrsusSmash]

It's not Khador specific, but I miss being able to take an eight-man unit. That used to be my unit size of choice (followed by max followed by min units). I now have loads of units with two "spare" models I spent time painting which I can't use OR I have to go out, buy another blister and get painting again on a unit I considered complete.

Seconded. Though I don't have any extra models to buy/paint (I always bought and painted 10 man units, despite the fact that I only ever fielded 8,) now I have sets of 4 models that now usually go unused.

10 model units are a pretty sizable portion of most armies, and on top of that they eat up a lot of table space. In Mk. 1, I used to take 8 models, then toss a UA or WAs on to bring the unit back up to 10. Nowadays, I find myself usually doing a min+UA or min+WA configuration for most units. The net result is that I have a lot of 4 model sets that usually don't leave the case.

I almost with I could go back in time and save "past me" the money on the blisters. :p

[Gooch]

i think flying steel on the drakhun wins out. that and +2 mat for battle wizard. I also played for the first month or 2 that da bears still got +2 def in b2b. I was blown away when I realized they didn't.

[hoya4life3381]

+2 Charge on Iron Fangs charge distance. Iron Fangs charging at 13 inches was my bread and butter in MK1. When MKII came around, I didn't realize how much it was a crutch for me. Now that Iron Fangs have the same threat range as Temple Flameguard or other reach SPD 6 infantry, it's defnitely a more challenging matchup.

Drakhun being the Khadoran light warjack with Flying Steel or allowed to be thrown and not knocked down was great.

8 Wounds on Uhlans was also amazing. Cavalry was near dominant for a time after Superiority.

Legends in general was pretty broken. You pretty much could play Prime and Legends, ignored all the in-between books, and still have a crazy-good army.

[Tevesh]

Great Bears. I think they're better in the Mark II meta, but they were immortal killing machines in Mark I.

Kayazy Assassins. They were simply dirty, filthiness. I remember engaging my opponent's squads and he wouldn't bother activiating the unit on his turn.

[OldOneEye]

- Flying Steel on the Drakhun. After having mine trying to fight his way out from combat with a Long Rider and Horthol a couple of games ago, I really missed the chance for extra attacks.
- Old, crazy, invincible Great Bears.
- Old Witch.

I really don't miss much, though. My main warcaster was epic Sorscha, and the backbone of my lists were Winter Guard Infantry and Beast-09. Of those three models/units, Beast-09 fared the poorest in the transition to the new edition. Considering how awesome it still is, that ought to tell you a lot. ;)

[Musketeer]

I mentioned several things above I miss, although none break my heart Ind the grand scheme of things. One item I did not mention which is missed and feels unwarranted in it's loss is the effectiveness of the Drakhun.

Forgetting the silliness of a thrown Drakhun which was changed the inability of him to perform crowd control really sucks when he costs 5 points! He should have at least had thresher like Yuri.

[Musketeer]

What I love in MKII for Khador... The Kodiak's new chain attack! Since I use Karchev pulling of 2H throws with my Kodiak is da bomb!

[Kuarnix]

Iron Curtain mostly, but in all honesty I can say Karchev would be stupid good now if he still had it.

I really miss the Spriggan's Flashbang grenades. I used those things all the time to stop the charge order, it was fantastic.

[ChainGun]

none break my heart Ind the grand scheme of things.

The only thing which really breaks my heart is the Old Witch. I used to play with her all the time but now, no matter how many times I'll read the description of Unseen Path, I still can't pretend it's fun. I do love MK2, though.

[almond]

I missed Brawler on the Behemoth... and the fact that it can't be moved by those smaller than it.

I miss Iron Curtain on Karchev.

[Musketeer]

The only thing which really breaks my heart is the Old Witch. I used to play with her all the time but now, no matter how many times I'll read the description of Unseen Path, I still can't pretend it's fun. I do love MK2, though.

I know where you are coming from. I played her, but not often. If she was my go to caster I would be pretty ticked off. Luckily Karchev has always, in mk I and II been my main caster.

[Nebo]

Iron Curtain
Flying Steel
Furious Charge
Augury ignoring Stealth, cover and concealment
The Glorious Drakhun
The Bears getting +2 DEF as well as ARM, and their extra boxes
Alexia and the Risen

I liked that there was so much that was broken, but it was ok, because your opponent also had broken models to balance it out.

[evltrtl]

I miss Mimic on pVlads weapon and the ability to cast BoK and S&P at the same time.

[Kommissar Golovko]

I know where you are coming from. I played her, but not often. If she was my go to caster I would be pretty ticked off. Luckily Karchev has always, in mk I and II been my main caster.

Yup. I was pretty much ticked off and she wasn't really my go to caster. Old Witch got "old" in Mk 2. Yes she still controls the table well but in the past she controlled the table and brought fear to her opponents as well, teleporting and then slaughtering her way through the enemy and collecting soul tokens as well if they were living.

She was a different axe (or claw rather) to the face then. These days it's let Scrappy do the Slaughtering. Sad really.

[Uehen]

The Old Witch.

Do you hear me Matt? I know you guys read the forums, you hear it over and over again. Give her an Epic version that gives us some of it back. We all want it, I buy everything you make anyways, so please!

I would lose my whole army, and then appear in the smoke cloud of the death jack (something i do not miss about mki) and then avoiding the free strike getting to charge their caster for the win. Having every one die, only to have her pop her feat and drag a caster through a field of talons.

Yeah, she is okay now. But Agha used to be the best.
I miss 8 boxes on our Cavalry.
Aaaaaand that is about it. Everything else I am okay with.
I never liked mortars and the wizards are a sad story,
But if I could have one thing back, it would be a charge after a unseenpath.

[ChainGun]

if I could have one thing back, it would be a charge after a unseen path.

Amen to that!

[Vinter_Raelthorne]

Just too add more redundancy because I too really really really miss them ...

1) Great Bears being great(er).

2) Flying Steel on Drakhun

3) IFPs with +5" on charge ...

R.I.P.

[JTY]

I miss hammerfists on the Kodiak. With his current chain attack they'd be awesome; punch, punch, headbutt, bend down and wring your opponents scrawny neck.

[Tevesh]

I forgot about the Curtain! Man, that was a fun spell.

[Darkfang]

I miss Butchers "Killing Blow" Spell..... I charge your caster... feat and oh lets hit you at a P+S 24 on 5D6.... yes lets do that ^.^

[Cambeul]

Not being able to charge over Terrain.

I mean anything that was in our Army had Pathfinder, or Pseudo Pathfinder anyway, plus pIrusk had Inhospitable Ground.

[SpiralingCadaver]

Iron curtain is something I don't miss (never played karchev, still haven't), but it was a cool ability with a great name.

I miss the old witch- she used to be my favorite, with magnus in second. Their positions have been reversed, but I wish she were a little more like she used to be.

I miss stronger head-butts. Cryx has weaponized heads, and circle and skorne have tusks/horns that give them better STR on head-butts. Why exactly don't we get ours? And, the devastator just has a giant poker on its head to… push guys?

[hausdorff space]

I miss old Blizzard (-2 mov).

[phantem2]

Damage on head butt attacks for sure, now were just left with the equivalent of hood ornaments on all our jacks heads.

Unmovable Object and brawler on the behemoth. Its not a lot but it was really fluffy and really perpetuated the big bad super jack feel.

[DoktorVivi]

I miss Drago's old ability to charge even when movement was disabled. That was a really nifty ability.

[0ver.d0se]

Epic Butcher's Unnatural Disaster. That spell was hilarious when combined with how risen worked in mk1. I remember reading stories here on the forums of entire armies( 30+ models) being wiped out in one casting of the spell. Awesome.

I also miss the Great Bears from mk1. They ignored forests and cloud effects for los, and had the 11" charge range like the ifp.

[jack frost]

other than the old witch I'd say the thing that breaks my heart the most is how much they changed drago. I loved (and I mean loved) getting the +1 to MAT and P+S after each hit...it was awesome and I won plenty of games chaining through lines to get to a caster...

[Khador247]

Just remembered too that the Great Bears could charge through IFP too could they not?

[ChainGun]

Just remembered too that the Great Bears could charge through IFP too could they not?

Yes, they did.

[ColdYinTiger]

As much as I love the Kodiak's chain now, I miss spine breaker(Crusher?) and hammerfist. I actually miss a lot of the little special rules that are gone now on our jacks. I miss Iron Curtain too, though Special K is much better now.

Also Strangling Chains and Feat on OW was very cruel, and I miss killing a bunch of our own troops to glut her on souls and then blowing up the other caster.

Just small things here or there.

[comrade]

I miss double tap on AK's and the fact that you could make custom unit sizes like 8 dudes instead of either 6 or 10. I know that the new point system doesn't lend itself to 8 men units but sometimes you wish you had more than 6 but don't really want to pay the cost for 10.

[Mercykiller]

I miss DC being horribly undercosted. That sounds bad, but I prefer that to being overcosted :p

On a more serious note I really miss Flying Steel on the Drakhun. That was a lot of his appeal for me.

[Space Cowboy]

Beast 09s head. It wasnt much but I thought it spoke more fluffily about the warjack than Legends fluff.....

[argent]

Old Witch's MK I Augury rules. It was great to roll out with the Behemoth and two 14" guns that saw through EVERYTHING. Add in Aiyana and Holt for magic attacks and nothing got within 14" of the Old Witch without her permission.

[talonhawk01]

Epic Butcher's Unnatural Disaster. That spell was hilarious when combined with how risen worked in mk1. I remember reading stories here on the forums of entire armies( 30+ models) being wiped out in one casting of the spell. Awesome.
Just 30+? Lol, I lost at least eight full units with a nice smattering of solos and attachments to a single casting of that spell. That'll teach me to agree to 4500 point games...on a standard table. XD

[TurboNitroMonkey]

Hammerfist on the Kodiak to be sure. It alone was reason enough to field a Marauder.

Marauder and Kodiak were the beautiful 1-2 punch of a few of my lists.

Also, the head spike giving +2 pow on headbutts.

[ELJE]

Darius. 2 Centurions, Darius.. and whatever... The sheer power of those 3 models was silly.

[Choco]

I know it's not Khador specific, but at least Croe works for Khador, so it works:

I miss Croe's Nine Lives.

[Tevesh]

You mean that every unit leader has taken a page from Croe and stole his Nine Lives? :P

[aaronmcc]

flying steel on the drakhun for sure. i miss killing blow of butcher despite the cost of 2 is always better spent on 2 more attacks. man, i REALLY miss vlads weapon mimic ability, it was really fun to copy enemy warcaster weapons, or hit with lola power when playing 2 caster games with butcher.

I'll second the mimic ability... that was a lot of fun.

[aaronmcc]

Just 30+? Lol, I lost at least eight full units with a nice smattering of solos and attachments to a single casting of that spell. That'll teach me to agree to 4500 point games...on a standard table. XD

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[relasine]

I know it's not Khador specific, but at least Croe works for Khador, so it works:

I miss Croe's Nine Lives.
Croe is not an Officer, so when he is killed, you just replace another model in the unit with him.

[tonyzahn]

I miss the berzerker's cumulative +1 to attack and damage rolls on each hit.
Not Khador, but I miss the Deathjack flipping out and trying to eat his warcaster.

[OrsusSmash]

I miss the berzerker's cumulative +1 to attack and damage rolls on each hit.
Not Khador, but I miss the Deathjack flipping out and trying to eat his warcaster.

In a similar vein, I miss the possibility that a Seether would flip out and essentially frenzy. It didn't come up often, but it was always amusing when it happened. The most absurd instance was when my buddy unfortunately flubbed all of his CMD checks with a Seether in the first turn (after buying re-rolls with the focus he had available,) and it ate one of the Coven!

I sometimes (but only sometimes) miss the zany landscape that was Mk. 1. :P

[Septimus]

I always liked Butcher's Retaliation spell. Used that to good effect on a Kovnik more than a couple of times.

[citizen11-3]

I miss the part where it was still fun and I played.

[Yertle4]

i miss the part where it was still fun and i played.
rage quit!

?

[frozenwastes]

I like how the end of MK1 reset things enough to get new players in. WM struggled locally, but when MK2 came out, I was able to convince my friends who were on the fence to get into it right from the get go.

What I do miss though is rolling more dice. There were lots of things that used to give an additional die that are now a +2 or something. And BoK and S&P in the same turn. That was disgustingly awesome.

[Marth]

Most of the things mentioned qualify for being OTT, so I don't miss them at all.

What I do miss, though, are the Spriggan's multi-tool-grenades. I'd like to have some of those back.

[Giygasfan]

I miss the part where it was still fun and I played.

Care to explain this? If you just meant that due to various circumstances, you are no longer able to play and miss it, then I feel for ya and hope you are able to get back into the game in the future.

But it could be taken as you find MK. 2 so horribly un-fun that you quit the game. While I disagree with some of the changes, the game as a whole didn't really change on a scale where I could understand this, so would you mind explaining why this is (possibly) the case?

[NecroticDischarge]

Most if not all the players that quite When mkii hit more than likely didn't Ever play mkii. I still feel that khador has an extremely good showing and effective choices. The things I miss most about mki was Sorscha 2 destroyers and eyriss, and if festus thinks Cryx is OP now he should feel some joy he missed out on the old MKi skarre bomb.

[sasori]

I too miss the Kodiak's Hammerfists. The new chain attack is alright, but I really loved the old setup.

[Demeritus]

Even though this won't be Khador specific I will mention the stuff I miss.

The point system is a huge one for me that I still miss. I miss how mk1 Kreoss (both versions) had spells for his warjacks. I miss the old Epic Severius' feat and Courage of Faith, I also miss the old Reznik.

[ColinT]

I miss the part where it was still fun and I played.

Man Mk2 only sucked for the power gamers, as there wasnt as many loopholes to exploit. MK2 is a far better and balanced game