Initial Thoughts

[Bakemono]

So far I don't have any serious gripes. Some of the changes I expected and some I didn't. Until I put some of this to the test tonight, I won't know if I would call them nerfs or not. The Warpwolf (now Feral Warpwolf) lost his "throatripper" and a point from his P+S. His Animus is largely useless but it was largely useless before so that is neither a +/-. Given that the Warpwolf is our signature heavy, I am disturbed a bit because our main problem (dealing with armor) just got worse. The Gorax is going to remain an auto-include and be even more important.

I'm at work, so I'm just kind of organizing my thoughts. I think the loss of the Woldwyrd's ability to use Fury it has built up to boost Witchhunter attacks was a poor choice on their part. The rather short range of its magical suppression and low power of its shooting was offset by the fact it could surge in shooting to get into range to harry a caster and then be powered up for Witchhunter. The utility of the Woldwyrd (at least so far) looks even less to me now and I didn't use them that often before.

[Ravyn]

So far I like what I see.
I'd have like to see the Warpy get a little better, but...I can't really say anything until I try him.

I don't like that apparently Morrag isn't a WoO anymore...because I REALLY wanted to run him with three warwolves...

[Dantes]

The Warpwolves losing the ability to choose the damage allocation is a major gripe from me. That ability is one of the things that drew me to the faction and the wolves in particular, to lose it is a big deal IMO.

The Shaman went down in utility majorly but gained nothing worthwhile but stayed at his relative cost. Almost not worth taking anymore, I'll test it though and see how well gang works out for them.

[Mutton]

I'm a fan of most everything. Reeves are the only thing that pops out as still being bad though.

[Bone(idle)jack]

Looks ok so far. liking the new gnarlhorn - switching the animus to an ability is great.

Krueger came out ok (chain lightning!) So did Kromac (9 fury!)

Sentry stones didnt take the beating that was expected either

[blackfang]

Looks like we escaped largely unscathed :)
Except for the Sentry Stone. Sure, it was stupid broken. But they have waaaay overcompensated. I can't see myself ever even think about using one now.

[blue loki]

Please note, that unless this is a strange dual-card typo, the Feral Warpwolf now has a third initial attack (bite) and the Pureblood only has claws.

The Feral Warpwolf also gained a point of MAT. Overall, he will be a better heavy killer than he was before I think. The increased MAT and P+S and the additional weapon help offset the loss of the chain.

Plus, Warp Speed (funny name, that) is better than it was before, as is the Pureblood's granting of the Ghostly ability. Combined with our easy access to Hunter, now they can charge through whatever they want.

The Wyrd is actually a bit better now. Yes it lost the ability to boost outside of its activation, but it gained Steady and Gunfighter, lost "non-combatant", and most importantly kept its animus almost entirely without change.

Lots of cool stuff throughout. This definitely takes more than a cursory glance.

[whitekong]

The Warpwolves losing the ability to choose the damage allocation is a major gripe from me. That ability is one of the things that drew me to the faction and the wolves in particular, to lose it is a big deal IMO.

The Shaman went down in utility majorly but gained nothing worthwhile but stayed at his relative cost. Almost not worth taking anymore, I'll test it though and see how well gang works out for them.

Well gang is going to be sick on ravegers, mat 9 p+s 15 yes please. They might actually hit something without the charge.

[TheVP]

I don't like that apparently Morrag isn't a WoO anymore...because I REALLY wanted to run him with three warwolves...
Apparently, warwolves aren't wolves of Orboros models, either, so they no longer flank off of each other.

[chrsjxn]

pKaya is going to be a terror with a beast heavy list. Feral Warpwolves at MAT 9, plus Soothing Song...

[bushman101]

man, I'm not sure about Druids of O. No Devouring sucks and the UA is un-remarkable.

Most of everything else in reasonable-awesome

[blue loki]

man, I'm not sure about Druids of O. No Devouring sucks and the UA is un-remarkable.

Most of everything else in reasonable-awesome

I wouldn't say unremarkable. He does give them Elemental Protection and Battle Wizard. Combined with the Wayfarer's Veteran Leader ability, they can really cause some wreckage if you have an opportunity to charge.

I will definitely miss The Devouring though.

[callow]

um my thought there are some neat things but my grips are
with mostly with the druids lost a huge damage out put ability they went from auto includes to meh
that's about it from me with gripes
um one thing i noticed but E-kaya war beast points at 2 kinda seems odd to me but now that i think of it larias must be 4 points but still a beasty caster at 2 points common
i think kruger is still the go to caster imho
kromac 9 furry common cant complain (while you can but playing him will stop the whining)
on last thought most every thing in wm mkII got mat increased where the love for hordes on the matter

sorry for any miss spelled words

[blakeh1]

Please note, that unless this is a strange dual-card typo, the Feral Warpwolf now has a third initial attack (bite) and the Pureblood only has claws.


From a model standpoint it actually makes sense. I always thought it was strange that the Warpowolf had no bite attack despite the model having this massive jaw and bearing it teeth, while the Pureblood had a bite attack, but a smaller mouth and wearing what looks like a muzzle

I don't think it is a typo since the Pureblood picked up a range attack and the Warpwolf lost the Chain attack

[blakeh1]

I wouldn't say unremarkable. He does give them Elemental Protection and Battle Wizard. Combined with the Wayfarer's Veteran Leader ability, they can really cause some wreckage if you have an opportunity to charge.

I will definitely miss The Devouring though.

The Elemental stuff is huge. he makes them like Khador Assault commandos.
Menoth will really have a hard time against them since they are immune to fire. Feora's feat is useless against them.

Cryx can't dispense with them using things like Venom (targetting another model, but catching them in it) or Bile Thrall purges.

Cygnar can' catch them with Chain Lightning or Electro leap.

In Circle on Circle battles they are immune to Kreuger's feat

[KulThass]

Wolfriders losing Howl is a bummer. They actually seem to have come down a couple notches, but gained a reroll on ranged attacks. Not too spectacular for the cost, in spite of getting access to the Cavalry rules.
More testing and time will tell. :(

[CyrDraconis]

I wouldn't say unremarkable. He does give them Elemental Protection and Battle Wizard. Combined with the Wayfarer's Veteran Leader ability, they can really cause some wreckage if you have an opportunity to charge.

I will definitely miss The Devouring though.
Wondering if these changes aren't meant to lead the Druids down a somewhat more aggressive role. Still pretty squishy, but if they can wade in, chew up a unit of infantry, and throw spells at the rest, all while laughing at electrical/frost/fire spells...

Edit: @blakeh1, not quite - the attachment does not have/give immunity to Corrosion. But you're right on the Protectorate/Cygnar/Sorscha fronts.

[blakeh1]

Wolfriders losing Howl is a bummer. They actually seem to have come down a couple notches, but gained a reroll on ranged attacks. Not too spectacular for the cost, in spite of getting access to the Cavalry rules.
More testing and time will tell. :(

They always could reroll missed range attacks in MK1

[WarJack Prime]

Initial thoughts are, meh. Some things got worse some things got better. The Reeves still suck though. I think it's the 10" range combined with POW10.

Make one of those numbers a 12 and you're in business.

[Rosicrucian]

The Elemental stuff is huge. he makes them like Khador Assault commandos.
Menoth will really have a hard time against them since they are immune to fire. Feora's feat is useless against them.

Cryx can't dispense with them using things like Venom (targetting another model, but catching them in it) or Bile Thrall purges.

Cygnar can' catch them with Chain Lightning or Electro leap.

In Circle on Circle battles they are immune to Kreuger's feat

Note: Druids do NOT gain corrosion immunity, they get fire, electrical, and cold immunity. However, I agree that they should be golden against Menoth. With counter magic and immunity:fire they ignore/deny both Vanquisher shots and Rebuke, two of PoMs more powerful abilities.

[Rosicrucian]

Wolfriders losing Howl is a bummer. They actually seem to have come down a couple notches, but gained a reroll on ranged attacks. Not too spectacular for the cost, in spite of getting access to the Cavalry rules.
More testing and time will tell. :(

I still think they will be excellent since the thrown javelins really take advantage of the light cav rules. They just wont be the holy terrors they were in Mk1. With pathfinder, hunter, the light cav move, and throw they are a really slippery harassment unit.

[Lokd0wn]

Some initial reactions on models I used extensively in MKI which will obviously be subject to change with proper playtesting.

Kaya1: No complaints here. Stayed pretty much the same and Pack Hunters is going to be a real killer.

Krueger1: Par for the course really. Cutbacks and ****genisation where I expected and auto hitting on 1st feat turn is a nice bonus.

Baldur: Feat nerf was expected but perhaps a bit too far? It's still a useful feat but something a bit more useful than cover for friendlies considering Circle playstyle. Tritus has reach now, woods just got even more scary (although the loss of nudge on the Druids hurts somewhat).

Kromac: The loss of Warp Strike and Brutality have really hurt him. His spell list seems very lacklustre to me. Aside from Ghostly Warpie tramples Ravager seems subpar for a faction that has no beasts with reach. Fury 9 in beast form is nice though. Am I missing something?

Argus: Cheap and now with a useful animus.

Woldwatcher: Expected ****genisation of animus, but now very cheap.

Woldwyrd: Very surprised that animus came out relatively unscathed (doesn't boost blast damage anymore). Shooting out of turn is a loss but one I can live with.

Pureblood Warpwolf: Animus is subpar for Circle, maybe Warp Strike was nixed so Kromac didn't turn into a psuedo MKI Coven on his feat turn? Giving out Ghostly like it's candy pretty much redeems it for me.

"Warpwolf": Still a pretty useless animus. Loss of power on attacks is annoying as is lack of chain attack, but a 3rd attack is a reasonable substitute. Give it and Pureblood back Reactive Warping and they'd be worth the points.

Woldwarden: Nice reworking of Spellstrike although the wording needs clarifcation. 4 Fury is a huge boon.

Megalith: Just a slightly better Woldwarden, doesn't really scream unique to me. Give him Natural Power instead for better diversity.

WoO+UA: Unit stayed the same. Mini-feat not as damaging but Ranked Attacks has some interesting applications.

Bloodtrackers: Expected cut to threat range, but still hit hard and accurately.

Ravagers+UA: +1 MAT, 8 wounds is very nice but ARM14 seems a bit steep. Gang is the one thing they really needed, shame about the loss of Primal Magic.

Wolfriders: I was worried how these were going to be retooled. I have to say I'm quite happy with how they turned out. It does beg the question of why Brutality was nixed with said retooling?

Druids+UA: Loss of Devouring hurts but they are still the toolbox they always were. Overseer doesn't seem worth it, Elemental Immunity is nice but Battle Wizard is subpar for MAT:5 P+S:10 troops.

Sentry Stone: Another piece I was very concerned about. I think it's nearly there, give it Stealth and it'll be worth the points.

Shifting Stones: Pretty much the same, but they now heal instead of removing damage so Constructs are at a disadvantage.

Blackclad: Hunters's Mark being an attack is annoying but with Magic Ability 8 that's one hell of a nasty spray.

[CyrDraconis]

Woldwyrd: Very surprised that animus came out relatively unscathed (doesn't boost blast damage anymore). Shooting out of turn is a loss but one I can live with.

Witch Hunter still works, just can't boost the shot. Not -as- threatening as before, but I'll take a free unboosted out-of-turn attack over nothing any day.

[RvBCaboose]

Unless I missed something the Warpwolf is now P+S 15 NORMALLY, which would be P+S17 warping str and 19 with primal. And gained an extra bite attack. I have no complaints at all about the Warpwolf, they took our best beast and made him better. so he lost the chain attack which was nice, but the extra POW and extra attack is great in my mind. He's even more of a heavy killer now.

Now Kromac on the other hand got hit a little hard I think. Ravager I think should be changed back to the way it was, as no one can move anymore after they kill a model, it takes away the Wolf Riders, and Ravagers ability to walk through entire armies chopping heads off with glee.

I also think that the White Mane should give the Ravagers Overtake, assuming we're leaving Kromac's Ravager spell the way it is, if its changed back to the way it was then leave Overtake out of the picture for the Ravagers.

[Ancient_of_MuMu]

I love the new pKaya as she now can effectively run a large number of beasts, due to soothing song and pack hunters. I think she may be our best warlock now.

[Dantes]

I love the new pKaya as she now can effectively run a large number of beasts, due to soothing song and pack hunters. I think she may be our best warlock now.
I like Pkaya more then EKaya now. She is deffinately stronger then her 'experienced' version. EKaya is going to need some work to catch up, simply getting a bark node doesn't help if you don't have any offensive spells worth casting.

[UnderWood]

woldwyrds got gunfighter :) but arcane killer got nerfed it only gets the damage boost on models directly hit does this mean no more boosted aoes?

the gnarlhorn got badass sweet animus more attacks better slam rules

shadowhorn got even better

pureblood can give our warbeasts PHANTOM SEEKER pew pew wyrds and can finally warp for str

the pureblood is going to be a BRUTAL ranged option seriously 2 melee attacks phantom seeker and a PS14 ranged attack

the hell warpwolves cost 9

they made our heavys expensive

wardens are no longer limited to offensive spells

reeves are exactly the same

BLOODTRACKERS ARE WEAPON MASTERS WITH THERE RANGED ATTACKS I DIDN"T EVEN KNOW THAT WAS POSSIBLE

Bloodweavers = awesome

Ravagers lost 2 ARM gained MAT more heart tokens attakcment makes them brutal they can now kill warjacks

no more devouring :(
druids with ua immune to fire electricity and cold
no more nudge the reason I was taking them now :(
battle wizard? seriously? woo my druids charge you



woldstalkers 1 point to expensive imo

No more made of stone setry stones are gun bait but devour magic got WAY WAY BETTER

OH GOD YES LOTF ****ING AWESOME OH GOD OH GOD OH GOD YES

morraig no cohort with with WoO and he's light cav now why god why

so bonegrinders lost transfer spirit but keot craft talisman
yay this will really help kaya so now she's back to being an assasination caster with low PS that super awesome

mmm swamp gobbers are much worse

[LEJKaya]

Can heal constructs


umm... heal. No they can't.

[UnderWood]

umm... heal. No they can't.

You are indeed right I am greatly mistaken and sghall remove the offending line :)

[LEJKaya]

Its a big pain... AFAICT only Baldur and Megalith can "heal" constructs.
This may affect the way we make some lists.

[Dantes]

Did anyone seen a clarification on Gorax's third weapon?

[Blaque]

Personal thoughts:

I always took the UA for the Druids for the expanded countermagic. I play against a lot (LOT) of Cryx in my area, so having Countermagic remain the same at the sacrifice of Devouring is livabel, but I would fo liekd a way to do some higher damage output, as we lack any of that now.

Sentry Stones and Shifting Stones look way too vulnerable. I would of thought the Sentry Stone would have at least kept Stealth, but not even that. A medium based model wtih DEF 5 will simply die to most things at range in short order and no way to heal itself is a confusing move. I'll hae to play it more, but I don't think I like it.

Warpwolves are P+S 15 on their claws and have a new P+S 14 bite. I don't get where this "Power went down" thing is from. They effecitvely get an always-on attack now and their base MAT and STR went up. ANd warping for Strength, they are on par with a Slayer I think. That said, looking at the Slayer and Kodiak, I do wonder hwere we are paying, sinc ethe higher ARM, P+S and wounds of the latter makes me tilt my head.

Megalith is not different enoughf rom a regular Woldwarden I feel to justify him with anyone but Baldur. While he heals and has better stats, Geomancy trades a lot of efficiency for flexibility. And no MAT buff for Woldwardens was quite a surprise.

We have a lot of Wraithbane now. I would almost say the Manikin one is atypo, since very single solitary Druidic or Cosntruct thing in our army has Magical Weapon. its kind of awesome.

Morvahnna is still weak to Upkeep-hate, as I feel Harvest was just as important. Eruption of Life is for some reason her only offensive spell but is Cost 4, which really limits hera bility to do things. She probably could of done to have another spell somewhere, but not sure what. Also I notice that Mohsar got Dust to Dust isntead fo Death to Dust. He pays an extra Fury for a cloud and range, so I think I can live with that. Her Feat is great, but I want to see what else happens.

Kromac is odd. I like Bestial, but Ravager feels situational. His inability to do spell-related stuf fin Beast Form and extra Fury doesn't make up for loss of a chain attack, Rapid Healing or Killing Spree. Pounce is too expensive for a spell, and why its not inate confuses me. It would be easy just to make it 1`Fury inate thing like what SHadowhorns can do. It baffles me. His Feat still sucks against Warmachine unless I see the Retribution pack Hydras.

The Reeves, War Wolves and Morraig no longer being Wolves of Orboros surprsies me. With thing slike Menites and Khador getting all the Exemplar and Winterguard stuff spread-out, CIrcle got it throttled back. I wouldn't mind seeing why this happened.

Lord of the Feast may well be good now. I approve.

Reeves are terrible. For one more point over the min, I can get min Nyss Hunters. For the same cost as the maximum, I can get full Nyss Hutners. Nyss hunters have superior range, superior SPD, MAT, RAT and CMD, Weaponmaster, a leader with wounds, even higher P+S ont he swords. The only thing the Reeves have is Double-Tap and Warwolves, which then psuh them to more then the Nyss. How in the hell are we believed we're supposed to be paying for this?

The Shadowhorn statline still sucks. I would of liked a MAT buff for the guy. I'm surprised that warbeasts in general didn't get the buff, there seems to be this compensation for the WM people *****ing that warbeasts were too powerful.

Wolfriders are intersting, but RNG 7 javelins are still going to be a pain.

And stuff.

[Dantes]

Warpwolves are P+S 15 on their claws and have a new P+S 14 bite. I don't get where this "Power went down" thing is from.
I think most are looking at the Mk1 Pureblood whose bite was stronger then his claws.

[LEJKaya]

Dust to Dust at 3 Fury is too high. All single target offensives are 2 fury, what was wrong with it?

[Rosicrucian]

Dust to Dust at 3 Fury is too high. All single target offensives are 2 fury, what was wrong with it?

It creates a cloud effect. Furthermore it's a shared spell with the Testament of Menoth. 3 Fury seems fine to me and I like that it adds another tool to his board control bag of tricks.

[Talking Head]

My initial reaction is that expensive warbeasts are expensive.

It isn't limited to Circle, but to Hordes in general it seems. All of the heavy warbeasts are just plain expensive. We don't exactly have our version of the Slayer/Ironclad/Crusader/Juggernaught.

[Ger]

My initial reaction is that expensive warbeasts are expensive.

It isn't limited to Circle, but to Hordes in general it seems. All of the heavy warbeasts are just plain expensive. We don't exactly have our version of the Slayer/Ironclad/Crusader/Juggernaught.

You do get a bit more mileage out of lights. As they can generate fury and have damage transferred to them. Further they can boost a lot in some cases. While in WM you may not see focus allocated to a light as often as a heavy.

Further your lights provide additional spells. While my Talon sits there making me sad in the face.