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fildrigar
12-20-2009, 08:55 PM
We have a number of three point solo options at our disposal. In faction, we have Lord of the Feast and the Ravager Whitemane. Outside faction, we have Alten Ashley, Gudrun the Wanderer, and the Totem Hunter.

Our two in faction choices are both very much designed for killing troops.

First up is Lord of the Feast. He has Stealth and 17 ARM in the defense department. His DEF is only 12, but he's got 8 health boxes, more than usual for a small based model. Offensively, he has quite a suite of tools. Thresher as a *attack will let him mow down groups of grunts, quite handily. Heart Eater lets him attack multiple times, as long as he's killing living models. His SPD went up to 5, and he has a 10" RNG Raven to help get him to battle as well.

Next we have the Whitemane. He doesn't have much in the way of defensive abilities. His DEF is only 13, a mere point higher than the Lord of the Feast. His ARM is a lowly 14, and with 8 health boxes, the standard for medium based solos, he will crumple like used kleenex when he takes a hit. He does have Treewalker, so as long as you have forests on the board, he has the ability to stay out of sight until you need him to charge. He's actually got a bit less of a threat range than the LotF, without any buffs. ( LotF can Raven something 10" away, put himself in base to base with it, and attack something 2" away from that. The Whitemane is only charging 9", with 2" of reach. ) Offensively, he has the potential to perform a bit better than LotF. First, he has a point of MAT on the Lord. He takes Heart Tokens just the same, and he has Overtake, for a 1" move every time he kills something. He also has Sprint, to move away if he's killed something this activation. ( Note that the Overtake and Sprint don't require him to have killed living models. )

Both of these choices are P+S 13, both have Reach, and both seem pretty clearly designed to kill enemy troopers. They both really need to be killing living models to get their full use. The Lord of the Feast will perform perhaps marginally better against Undead models, as he can Thresher to kill more than one. The Whitemane has an extra little buff that he gives to other Ravagers. The Lord of the Feast seems slightly better overall, and I think I will tend to use him first in most cases, unless I've got Ravagers in my list somewhere.

Our Minion choices for three point solos are quite a bit different.

Alten Ashley is really anti-Warbeast. I have a hard time seeing myself fielding him very often, if at all. He does have Camouflage, and a decent ranged weapon, but his main purpose is anti-Warbeast. For me to regularly bring him to battle, he'd need to have more use against Warmachine. He's sort of our version of Eiryss, and he really pales in comparison. If you're facing WM, he's really a two point solo.

Gudrun the Wanderer is a bit of an odd duck. It seems like he's still in flux, and will probably continue to change. With his current rules, he doesn't seem worth three points. His Mk1 version was very very durable. His Mk2 version, not so much. I don't expect him to get back his invulnerability in Mk2, but something like not losing his DEF when knocked down would go a long way to upping his survivability. He's got a P+S 15 Reach weapon, not bad, and gains Berserk after he's been killed once, making him seem again like an anti-troop solo. We have two very good in faction anti-troop solos, so until or unless he gets some love, I don't see bringing him to battle over our other options.

This brings us to the Totem Hunter. What a guy! Faster SPD than any of our other options. ( 10" charge + Reach or 7" advance, 5" jump, and 2" Reach. Oh, and if his prey is within 10" add 2" to either of those numbers. ) He's got better DEF and ARM than the Whitemane. He's got the same 8 boxes that our in factions options have. He's got Stealth and Advance Deploy. And Hunter, to stay behind forests if you have any. Offensively, he's got a nice MAT of 8. He has Prey, which will up that MAT to 10 against his chosen target. His main weapon has a P+S of 14, 16 against his Prey. And a second attack. ( Lower PoW, but still. ) I really like this guy. He fills a different role than either of our in faction choices. It seems to me like his role is different. He's got a P+S that just enough higher to do some serious damage to light 'jacks, light beasts, and other slightly harder targets. He's got the speed to operate completely on the flanks, and get back to the main battle when needed.

Cantor
12-21-2009, 05:54 AM
Don't take this the wrong way, but is there a point to this? I opened this with the expectation of seeing a list of reasons why the LoTF is superior to the White Mane, and why Gudrun is so uncompetitive in his current version. This is really just a list of their abilities. While I appreciate the comparison, some type of question or conclusion seems to be missing here.

Bakemono
12-21-2009, 05:56 AM
Yeah. Truth be told, this is the kind of stuff that people read at Battle College.

Mutton
12-21-2009, 06:02 AM
Maybe the purpose of this is to show that all our 3pt options are great?

fildrigar
12-21-2009, 07:10 AM
The Lord of the Feast outclasses the Whitemane in many ways. He's almost always a better choice, perhaps unless you're bringing Ravagers to the fight. The Totem Hunter is our best option in minions, and his role doesn't overlap our in faction choices.

I thought I was in the Circle Community, I cry your pardon if that's not the case.

Amarel
12-21-2009, 07:12 AM
Maybe the purpose of this is to show that all our 3pt options are great?
Oh. What is the new price of the Sentry Stone, then?

:p

Mutton
12-21-2009, 07:14 AM
Oh. What is the new price of the Sentry Stone, then?

:p

Never heard of it.

And the LotF does not outclass the Whitemane. Whitemane can scythe through formations and has an extra MAT.

wvieira422
12-21-2009, 07:27 AM
Sentry stone is no longer a solo, it it a unit now.

Amarel
12-21-2009, 07:31 AM
Sentry stone is no longer a solo, it it a unit now.
Yeah I know, but Mutton just said "three point options" :).

Doctor Chopsaki
12-21-2009, 08:43 AM
Let's not forget the tactician ability that white mane can grant the ravagers. We can always use more goodies for our beloved ravagers.

Bakemono
12-21-2009, 08:49 AM
I thought I was in the Circle Community, I cry your pardon if that's not the case.

You are and no one is going to stop you from talking about whatever you want. That being said, a "Primer" for beginners on the use of Solos, and that is how you structured your post, should probably be more apparent that you aren't talking about rules testing right now, but more your feelings about our solos and what they can do. There is no reason to cry our pardon. I was just suggesting that Battle College write ups aren't what most people are doing right now.

Sevwall
12-21-2009, 09:05 AM
Oh jeeze guys. This is the Circle community. This is Circle related. It fits, its fine, you don't like it, don't post in it.

Fildrigar, I appreciate your analysis.

fildrigar
12-21-2009, 09:42 AM
Well, then, allow me to start over again.

Our in faction 3 point solos are both primarily designed for the same function: troop killers. ( or perhaps "grunt eaters"? ) In this role, the LotF is marginally better. ( in a vacuum that is. ) He has slightly better defensive rules, ( stealth ) slightly lower offense, ( -1 MAT and no overtake ) and slightly more flexability. The Whitemane has a slightly greater potential for carnage, but canny opponents will be unlikely to cooperate very often to let him eat his way down the line at the Shieldwall Buffet.

Our out of faction choices are much more limited. Ashley is near worthless against Warmachine. Gudrun lacks the staying power he had in Mk1, and with his current rules you're better off with our in faction choices. The Totem Hunter is a great option, and his role doesn't overlap with LotF, nor the Whitemane. The THunter is very worth using. He's got the highest P+S available to us in a solo.

Nalik
12-21-2009, 10:55 AM
If I am list building and have 3pts left, I go back over the list and see if I can't find where I can get 1 more pt for an Argus. :p

Griffin745
12-22-2009, 02:19 PM
If I am list building and have 3pts left, I go back over the list and see if I can't find where I can get 1 more pt for an Argus. :p

Such a strage thing to hear, I am quite delighted that people don't hate him anymore, even to the degree of finding points for him.

Onto the solos, I have both of them, and have enjoyed great success with both, though I find the white mane tends to do better for his overtake, even with 2" melee the new formation rules allow a lot of spreading out.

LEJKaya
12-22-2009, 02:53 PM
For 3 points you can get 3 War Wolves... I'm not convinced they are worth 1 point each at the moment comparing them to other options.

Nalik
12-23-2009, 05:45 AM
Such a strage thing to hear, I am quite delighted that people don't hate him anymore, even to the degree of finding points for him.

Onto the solos, I have both of them, and have enjoyed great success with both, though I find the white mane tends to do better for his overtake, even with 2" melee the new formation rules allow a lot of spreading out.

He's gained a boost from the new animus but really it's the narrowness of the new point system that's his biggest gain. A 3 point solo can't have damage transferred to it nor do they generate fury, both of these abilities are what keeps your warlock going. Realistically his damage out put is as good as most circle solos (when your opponent doesn't slip up) and he's got more life and can be healed easily.

Cantor
12-23-2009, 05:48 AM
I did specify that I meant nothing offensive in my first post. I merely brought up some constructive criticism. Please, when the rules are final visit the Battlecollege and post your thoughts there. Your comparisons are quite accurate and helpful, it just seemed that your post was lacking an argument or question. I know I sound like a high school English teacher, and that's because I have a degree in English Literature. I'm used to very high quality writing and I get a little peeved when people go to a lot of effort to write something like this and leave out something very basic.

I'm not sure that the killing power of any of these needs to be increased, or their points reduced. I'm a huge fan of the new LoTF. I haven't played around with the MkII White Mane yet. I've been playing small games so far, and haven't used my Ravagers.

As for the minions, I have always loved Alten Ashley and I regret that my local meta is too Warmachine oriented for me to really bring him often. I think that Gudrun needs a lot of work, however, and fills no niche in his current version.