Mark II Vayl looks crazy good!

[Konradexius]

Unless I'm missing something, Vayl got worse only in that her feat isn't nearly as good anymore. However, she has other things that make her now crazy good.

First, and probably most minorly, Talion is not an ability instead of a spell. I never used it a single time in Mark I, but now it might actually come up.

Siren song got replaced by Rampager, which is simply better in every way.

Hoarfrost is argueably worse, but at least now you don't need to hit your own warbeast, and it's cheaper.

Leash is a new spell, and one that actually looks very useful - charge something, trash it, then leash back close enough to use dark sentinel.

And finally... Incite is now her control area instead of 8 inches. Holy Crap. Holy Crap. That's almost unfair. (Oh wait, it's Legion. Nevermind.) With this, a Carnivean or Typhon will just demolish anything they get close to. Typhon with Incite and Chiller will have no trouble hitting anything that needs to die.

I am SOOO looking forward to traumatizing my Troll-playing buddy with her Tomorrow. :D

[wrabbit37]

And finally... Incite is now her control area instead of 8 inches. Holy Crap. Holy Crap. That's almost unfair. (Oh wait, it's Legion. Nevermind.) With this, a Carnivean or Typhon will just demolish anything they get close to. Typhon with Incite and Chiller will have no trouble hitting anything that needs to die.

I was not overly impressed with Vayl either until I read this part. I had to go back and double-check to make sure you were right (you were). Good lord, for real?! Insight of 16"? I can't wait to try her out.

[Shadowspite]

I actually want to try her now.... I didn't really like her MKI version.

[Neutralyze]

i am very excited about this. the feat is interesting to say the least and IMO before my testing this evening should allow us to hit and pull away any models we choose, not just one.

i did re read incite 3 times to make sure i wasnt missing something.

HF was reduced a ton which is sad but oh well.

[Hellfury]

I am pleasantly surprised about how Cat & Mouse works now. Incite is monstrous. it looks like she will continue to be my favorite warlock.

[W0lf]

How did i miss incite change...

ouch.. just ouch :D

[Neutralyze]

How did i miss incite change...

ouch.. just ouch :D

agreed, now she doesnt have to be up close anymore.

the HF change is sad though.

[Hjelmen0]

Yeah. Hoarfrost was an extremely good spell before, and they might have taken it down just a peg to far. But with all the other changes, I can't get myself to complain too much.

Playtesting will show all, but right now it looks like Vayl is in a pretty good place.

[UltimateLegion]

Vayl is gonna be my go to warlock for the moment. You can use her feat to advance and get a round of shooting in then just move back, allowing you the chance to get another first strike! Leash is just her feat for one model every turn, I could see people getting very annoyed at a leashed Typhon Spraying at RAT 7 for POW 16 and moving back EVERY TURN!

edit: oops that doesn't work, Vayl can't activate before and after Typhon, but the idea is still cool at RAT5 and POW 14.

[Lazlo]

I am pleasantly surprised about how Cat & Mouse works now. Incite is monstrous. it looks like she will continue to be my favorite warlock.

I must be missing something because Cat & Mouse looks next to useless to me now.

I can't use it to get the jump on my opponent because it happens at the end of my turn, so I don't get to do anything after the move.

I can charge in, attack his front line, and use it to move back, but with just an advance I doubt I'd be able to outdistance the counterattack.

Might be useful against a heavy ranged list to get my stuff up in his face.

I don't know...it just seems to me that we got severely beaten by PP in the feat department. eLylyth only gives extra ranged attack to her battlegroup. Saeryn is battlegroup only too now.

I haven't looked at the other factions yet, and haven't played any games, but so far I'm unimpressed with our feats. Hopefully I'll figure out how to use them effectively.

[RuneGrey]

A lot of Hordes feats have gone from being 'all friendly models' to 'battlegroup only' - it was a fairly sweeping across the board chance, and probably one of the big 'anti-infantrymachine' tactics Privateer has put into place.

[i_like_tool]

Good to know that our original go to girl, is back baby! My favorite caster in Mk I is still my favorite in Mk II. Should be trying her out against Trolls shortly

[Neutralyze]

I must be missing something because Cat & Mouse looks next to useless to me now.

I can't use it to get the jump on my opponent because it happens at the end of my turn, so I don't get to do anything after the move.

I can charge in, attack his front line, and use it to move back, but with just an advance I doubt I'd be able to outdistance the counterattack.

Might be useful against a heavy ranged list to get my stuff up in his face.

I don't know...it just seems to me that we got severely beaten by PP in the feat department. eLylyth only gives extra ranged attack to her battlegroup. Saeryn is battlegroup only too now.

I haven't looked at the other factions yet, and haven't played any games, but so far I'm unimpressed with our feats. Hopefully I'll figure out how to use them effectively.

cast incite and leash typhon up. cast massacre and have him go to town on what you want while vayls feat is up.

after turn is over pull him back to safety. not too hard to use. it would be better if we could move any models we choose and not limited to one.

[i_like_tool]

not too hard to use. it would be better if we could move any models we choose and not limited to one.

Are you referring to Leash only affecting one model or her feat? Her feat doesn't just affect one model. It's one model for every enemy model in her control radius

[Neutralyze]

Are you referring to Leash only affecting one model or her feat? Her feat doesn't just affect one model. It's one model for every enemy model in her control radius


the feat as stated on the card says that only 1 warbeast is affected by the feat. i reread it a couple times and it doesnt seem like i can choose more than 1 warbeast to be effeted by it.

tell me im wrong and the feat would be pretty decent compared to what we think.

[i_like_tool]

I am reading it completely differently than you are and will post it in the rules forum to be safe
"One friendly non-warlock faction model in Vayl's control area can make a full advance for each enemy model in her control area at the end of this turn. During this movement the affected model cannot be targeted by freestrikes"

Maybe it's missing a word there....I mean that would imply that one model like a Carni could, saying a single full unit + UA is in Vayl's control area, move 72" without taking freestrikes. A full advance for EACH enemy model in her control area...so 12 models would mean 12 movements.

[i_like_tool]

Thread in the rules forum already up. Waiting for an "official" answer.
http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?t=445

[chrsjxn]

It's an English grouping question.

It's either "one model ... for each enemy model", or one model with "a full advance ... for each enemy model". Both of which are reasonable interpretations of the sentence from an English perspective.

I think it should be obvious the answer is going to be the first of those.

Otherwise I could advance and catch 10 enemies in my control area, allowing one Angelius to advance a whopping 70" as long as it stays within Vayl's control area.

I mean, Spirit Door and Soul Gate are cool spells, but I can't imagine that's what's intended for Vayl's feat.

[Neutralyze]

intended or not, it is what i got from the wording was all.

[chrsjxn]

intended or not, it is what i got from the wording was all.

It's probably the most awkwardly worded feat in the entire document. Possibly the entire game.

At least Dark Sentinel seems to have been cleared up.

[i_like_tool]

intended or not, it is what i got from the wording was all.

I did too at first lol. Than thought....no freakin way. Here's hoping for clarification soon. On another note


I'm still seeing Legionnaires being my unit of choice for Chiller unless a beast is about to take on something hard to hit
Leash staying on...something...to rubberband it back
And of course Incite up every turn basically once things starting going down.

That's 5 of her 8 fury. I could see using Rampager to finish off a wounded enemy model if none of your beast or at least moving it away from you.

What beast to run with her though?

[Arkady]

Don't get too excited. Remember Warmonger.

[dicegod]

Vayl is off the wall.

I'll definately be placing feedback about 16" incite. Combined with leash and her feat and chiller, holy crap.

[i_like_tool]

Vayl is off the wall.

I'll definately be placing feedback about 16" incite. Combined with leash and her feat and chiller, holy crap.

And what feedback will you be leaving? i'm curious here truly. If you haven't played multiple games with/against her how do you know what to leave? Is this a knee-jerk reaction that you think something looks overpowered on paper so you must stop it or what?

[Hjelmen0]

Yeah, they desperately need to reword her feat :|

Also, I wouldn't mind seeing some sort of change to Hoarfrost. A 3" AoE at that cost is... I don't want to say useless, but ... yeah ...

Gotta test 'em all!

[Petezilla]

I'm kinda happy about hoarfrost, in MK1 vayl and searyn where bizarely similar, this separates them a bit more (and with everything else awesome about her it doesn't hurt)
I think in the context of her being able to make an arc node out of any beast a fury8 pow 14 rng8 spell is pretty cool. I always see pow 14 as the point where damage starts to get a bit scary.

[Primus]

Vayl's feat has been clarified, and is multiple models getting a single move (http://privateerpressforums.com/showpost.php?p=7691&postcount=15).

[ShockwaveIIC]

Vayl's feat has been clarified, and is multiple models getting a single move (http://privateerpressforums.com/showpost.php?p=7691&postcount=15).
For those of you that don't click the link, it is Multiple models can move, nothing about they only get to move once in that link.

[Neutralyze]

i ask if they can be moved more than once. if so then it is a solid defensive feat.

[Bearded Dragon]

Think of the new Cat and Mouse like Field Test Nightmare's Prey movement. It allows you to reposition your army to be in better killing places next turn. It lets your Seraph reposition and get the aiming bonus. It sets up good slam options to knock down the enemy warcaster. It lets your raek really move up to get set up to take out the enemy's support options. It lets your archers move up and get the aiming and double shot ability. I'm pretty happy with it on paper.

Also, I'm thinking control range incite is nutso, will test it out and see.

Still think that Nephilheim protector was made to be her lap dog.

[Defenstrator]

It's not like Nightmare's movement at all. If it was it might be good. Nightmare got to move in the maintanence phase of the turn. This lets you move at the end of yuor own turn. If your a heavy shooting army it might have some use but anyone is already engaged is going to do almost nothing. I mean, are you planning to move back and give them the charge attack?

[Neutralyze]

you hit the front line then use the feat to pull back out of charge range of the 2nd line. its defensive in nature. if your setting up for a aimed range shot or charge then on their turn they would hit your first.

[Necra-Chi]

This is why I don't think her feat is anywhere near as good as E-Thagroshs. On eth attack, thagrosh's army gets another whole attack after the move. On the hit and run, thagrosh's army can still do a retreat, but Vayl's potentially gets less moves than she has models or more which might be redundant, but at least makes it more flexible.

I find it funny that vayl used to be too similar to saeryn but weaker (IMO) and now she's too similar to E-thagrosh but weaker (IMO). His feat has the edge, his beast buffing control range spell ahs the edge, his AOE spell has the edge and he's a massive hard to kill beatstick while she's an old lady. Its amazing she only gets one beast point more than him. Is her not perticularly good ability to channel really worth that much?

Maybe its chiller and leash. Personally I think teh fact that unnatural aggression grants a maintenece move trumps leash, so E-Thag has the edge there too.
Chiller does stack very nicely with incite for a massive assassination threat though, the old twin angel assassination, but +2 ARM from dragonblood is also really good. I'd give the edge to chiller, although I find that if you can get two angels to an enemy caster its dead regardless of if its the incite chiller combo or "GOE".

[Soulblighter]

Vayl does just appear to just be a weaker version of eThagrosh. At the very least she needs a better feat, +1 warbeast point, improved hoarfrost (its worse than scourge now), improved leash (should ignore freestrikes), and incite should just be replaced with manifest destiny since the two spells are so similar anyway.

[jonconcarne]

i ask if they can be moved more than once. if so then it is a solid defensive feat.

In the errata from the Field Test Discussion forum, PPS: DC confirms (http://www.privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?t=778) that it's only one move per model from Cat & Mouse.

[Primus]

In the errata from the Field Test Discussion forum, PPS: DC confirms (http://www.privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?t=778) that it's only one move per model from Cat & Mouse.

Exactly as I said.

The thing to remember with Infernals and rule clarifications is that they only answer the specific question asked, and pretty much ignore anything else unless someone else answers correctly. Necra-Chi phrased the question as a comparison between single-model-multiple-moves and multiple-models-single-move, and Lunatic Calm answered multiple-models-single-move. All the rest of the thread was irrelevant.

[yankeefan]

ok just finished a 25 pt game on vassal and holy god vayl turns carnis and angels into absolule monsters. my friend wanted to shoot me when he realized the angel got a pow 16 AP attack with a boost. madrack got speared nice and good. and even though the hit was lucky the carni having assault under it is also nasty good.

[Neutralyze]

SS combined with Leash can get you the super distance needed for an assasination. even more so than before.

Vayl no longer needs to be far up front for incite to work so she will play differently now.

[albertcamUsjr]

Just played a 2 caster Vassal game. For hilarity, pair Ethag and Vayl.

Manifest destiny + Incite + Chiller = dead Madrak, dead Morghoul.

Never even feated.


That being said, I feel like Vayl is a bit of a one trick pony.

[blitzmonkey]

How is she a one trick pony? Not that I doubt you, but I haven't played around with her at all yet.

[i_like_tool]

I'm not seeing the one Trick pony either and i've been playing with her exclusively still. I would love to hear more about why you feel that way though

[chrsjxn]

Just played a 2 caster Vassal game. For hilarity, pair Ethag and Vayl.

Manifest destiny + Incite + Chiller = dead Madrak, dead Morghoul.

Never even feated.


That being said, I feel like Vayl is a bit of a one trick pony.

Careful. Manifest Destiny and Incite are both battlegroup only.