WWII Defender barrel swap [Archive] - Privateer Press Forums

blakbuzzrd

11-20-2010, 06:16 PM

I don't care for the Defender's stock Heavy Barrel. Maybe I've spent too much time playing videogames, but it's hard to take it seriously as a piece of mobile artillery. Some associations are hard to shake.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1823310/barrelwarpsquare.jpg

This is supposed to be one of the most powerful ranged weapons in the game, right? It should look the part.

So I picked up a 1/35 scale Sturmhaubitze 105mm 42 L/28 barrel from RB Models (http://www.rbmodel.com/index.php?action=products&cat=news), a Polish outfit that specializes in turned brass and aluminum parts for historical scale models. This barrel is based on that of a WWII German mobile gun:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1823310/Stuh42f.jpg

Work in progress:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4084/5193207335_19d7d39127.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4087/5193805300_1f1cda023d.jpg

C&C welcome.

Undead Saboteur

11-20-2010, 06:26 PM

In my opinion the conversion is an awesome idea and looks good. However you should shorten the barrel a few inches (maybe 2"?) because it is a little too long in my opinion. Otherwise it looks good!

ICleadpeople

11-20-2010, 06:30 PM

Its a gun and a reach weapon. I like it.

blakbuzzrd

11-20-2010, 06:32 PM

You know, initially I intended to shorten it. But the longer I thought about tank barrels, artillery, and the like, the more I liked the original length. It's supposed to be a big, accurate gun on legs. I ended up liking it looking a little awkward.

Karyle

11-20-2010, 06:36 PM

As long as you like it is all that matters. :)

I think it's hella cool, and intend to do some converting to my Defender's barrel at some point as well.

teejayv

11-20-2010, 06:48 PM

Absath

11-20-2010, 07:05 PM

I think it looks awesome, but two problems, one being a question. First off, if real life physics were to play a role in this, the model would tip over from the weight of the barrel being so long. It's center of gravity would be in front of it's feet, if I'm not mistaken. Secondly, would this be legal in a game because technically, the reach is far greater now, an how would you calculate the distance? from the tip of the barrel or the base of the model?

I'm not taking away that it is an awesome mod, not at all, but those things just had to be said.

Since when do you ever measure the range of a model's weapons from anything but the model's base...? Let me know if I missed a ruling, and I'll start modding all of my Protectorate standing on their tippy toes holding their weapons as far out in front of them as possible ;)

teejayv

11-20-2010, 07:11 PM

Since when do you ever measure the range of a model's weapons from anything but the model's base...? Let me know if I missed a ruling, and I'll start modding all of my Protectorate standing on their tippy toes holding their weapons as far out in front of them as possible ;)
sorry bout that , I really have no knowledge of the game since I just paint the models. I was questioning it rather than stating a point. Sorry if I confused anyone.

DemonCalibre

11-20-2010, 07:36 PM

If you you like it don't change it.

I think the barrel is a little long for game play, as it will be constantly getting int the way, I do like the change htough.

Death By Monkeys

11-20-2010, 08:04 PM

Wow, that's a helluva big gun on that Defender. I like it! When I get mine, I may have to try something like it - probably not as long, but something similar. I wonder how a Leman Russ barrel would look...

Crystara

11-20-2010, 08:06 PM

For me, I like the length but agree about the physics bit. I feel like it should have something extending back to counterbalance. Maybe an extra ammo hopper attached to the rear of the gun?

Temoinlanuit

11-20-2010, 08:22 PM

You might want to tilt it up a bit more, if you're not shortening it.. it looks like it'll hit the heads of small based models, which will make gameplay a bit difficult.

If you've already checked this and it's not a problem, ignore :D

Alviaran

11-20-2010, 08:23 PM

sorry bout that , I really have no knowledge of the game since I just paint the models. I was questioning it rather than stating a point. Sorry if I confused anyone.

Unlike a certain other game, all that matters here is your base actually. You cannot model for advantage in any way. Your base size determines your height even, regardless of the specific model in question.

I like it. A bit long and ridiculous but I like it. No matter what, I do really like the different barrel end. I might have to do something similar. German Howitzers always did look awesome with the flash suppressors and such. Hm. They make slightly smaller scales too. I wonder how big the 1:48 really are...

EDIT: Uh...nevermind that last bit. 98 USD shipping to the US. Yikes! I'll have to figure something else out.

Mod_Plarzoid

11-20-2010, 08:59 PM

I love this. I feel it's just a tad long (how does it support that much weight, let alone the recoil), but it's bloody brilliant. Bravo!

Devilsquid

11-20-2010, 09:32 PM

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4087/5193805300_1f1cda023d.jpg

C&C welcome.

"Is that a howitzer in your pocket, or are you happy to see me?"

Sweet conversion. As a military man, I approve!

Kuwanger23

11-20-2010, 09:34 PM

I say don't shorten it. First of all I play a death jack and there is no way to get into base with that big guy yet he is very playable. Also I love the conversion. Great idea, and really funny OP with Mario. Of course the physics of it might be off but then again think of so many other things in the game that share the same problem. Plus they are Cygnar, with their tech I am sure they came up with a way to lessen the recoil enough to allow the defender to holster such a weapon of great magnitude. See I just came up with a fluff reason why he can have such a huge cannon. Great conversion!

blakbuzzrd

11-20-2010, 09:36 PM

I wonder how big the 1:48 really are...

EDIT: Uh...nevermind that last bit. 98 USD shipping to the US. Yikes! I'll have to figure something else out.

Actually, I measured the diameter of the shell casing in the exposed clip. It's about 3mm (obviously, this is the pewter model -- dunno about the plastic version). At scale, that's 105mm. So it's at least close from an ammo size perspective.

On the cost, eBay is your friend. I snagged mine on an auction for under $10 US delivered. Granted, I waited for nearly three weeks for a slow delivery boat from China, but it arrived safe and sound.

Given the feedback, I'm taking another look at that barrel length. I suppose now is the time to make adjustments, if I'm going to do it.

dangerparty

11-20-2010, 10:30 PM

Put a bipod on the end of it! And change the stance of the model if you can, this is what Triumph should look like!

Tekanan

11-20-2010, 11:08 PM

I will never look at the Defender's heavy barrel the same again :(.

I also concur that the Heavy Barrel you made should be shortened by a few more inches. Maybe make it 1" - 1.5" longer than the standard Heavy Barrel length.

the solitaire

11-21-2010, 12:01 AM

Great conversion. Personally I would shorten the barrel, but no more then 3-5mm, or place the arms pivot point 3mm more forward.
The again, that´s a matter of personal taste.

Good solid craftmanship there

The Guy

11-21-2010, 12:36 AM

Keep the length, add a bipod!

Overkill, ftw.

EDIT: Fail!
Put a bipod on the end of it! And change the stance of the model if you can, this is what Triumph should look like! Def did not read that post. :)

sanj

11-21-2010, 12:56 AM

The pic of your defender from the front looks just right.
It looks awesome.
I vote for keeping it as it is.

Also, a defender weights around 6 tons, I don't think that barrel would tip it off balance anyway!

arides

11-21-2010, 04:15 AM

+1 for bipod. I for myself would remove the ammocardridge and put somekind of autoloading mechanism at the back of the gun to get a counterweight for the long barrel. But seeing this conversion reminds me of the geman translation for the Defenders gun "Dickes Rohr" which can be mistaken as a metaphor for "big *add-random-name-for-male-reproduction-organ-here*...

Azuresun

11-21-2010, 04:38 AM

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1823310/barrelwarpsquare.jpg

And now I can't unsee it. :)

Nice conversion, though it might look a bit more balanced if the magazine part of the gun was behind the wrist?

Grizwald

11-21-2010, 06:07 AM

So I picked up a 1/35 scale Sturmhaubitze 105mm 42 L/28 barrel from RB Models (http://www.rbmodel.com/index.php?action=products&cat=news), a Polish outfit that specializes in turned brass and aluminum parts for historical scale models. This barrel is based on that of a WWII German mobile gun:
That's a pretty cool site. If that place were in the States I could see spending a lot of cash there.

Sacredsouless

11-21-2010, 06:43 AM

you know what, now i want to stick an 88 on something. lol, i love the convert.

ButcherOfKhardov

11-21-2010, 06:50 AM

"This is my Boom stick" seems applicable here haha.

I think the historical look does make the 'jack look better.

BoK

Yurimow

11-21-2010, 08:21 AM

So I picked up a 1/35 scale Sturmhaubitze 105mm...
maybe that's the reason why it looks out of scale. 35mm minis are somewhat close to 1:48. Additonally... where does it say a defender shoots 105mm?

On the other hand... it's your mini, you have to like it. Now i have to find something similar in 1:48 for my decimator.

scud

11-21-2010, 08:26 AM

The length is ok but you need something on the other side to counter balance it. Otherwise I think you should shorten it.

amazonwarlord

11-21-2010, 08:39 AM

Know what? I like it! Know what else, sound like you like it too. I'd say not to worry too overly much as to whether or not it can or can not be base on the laws of physics. It's overkill in a game where extreme is king! So go for it. If you want to make it more possible I'm sure throwing some counterweight in back or a biped on it would be none too hard to do but don't shorten this monstrosity.

Oh, and all this talk about shortening that by "inches" is a bit too much. A big base is 2 inches. If you were to shorten that barrel by 2" or a "few" inches it would be a little nub on the original part looking small and silly or disappear altogether. The units here, if we are talking about 2 or a few should be mm, really.

EpicAstinos

11-21-2010, 08:55 AM

Really, I think you don't need to shorten it at all. If you just alter his pose so he's aiming it with a widened, bracing with one foot back, he'll look fine. The only thing that bothers me is that you'll have to cover up that beautiful shiny brass.

http://static.hlj.com/images/ban/ban953815.jpg
Sorry for the terrible example, but I see this being more dynamic and making better use of the length on that barrel. Then again, I don't have the model so I don't know how easily reposed he is. Cheers!

Agamemnon

11-21-2010, 09:38 AM

Alviaran

11-21-2010, 10:12 AM

Actually, I measured the diameter of the shell casing in the exposed clip. It's about 3mm (obviously, this is the pewter model -- dunno about the plastic version). At scale, that's 105mm. So it's at least close from an ammo size perspective.

On the cost, eBay is your friend. I snagged mine on an auction for under $10 US delivered. Granted, I waited for nearly three weeks for a slow delivery boat from China, but it arrived safe and sound.

Given the feedback, I'm taking another look at that barrel length. I suppose now is the time to make adjustments, if I'm going to do it.

Well, thank you very much! Found the one I really like (the late Tiger I) on eBay in no time. I will keep this in mind!

Though I must admit, I'm a little disappointed that they have versions of the MG34 but not the 42. I don't know exactly what I would use that for right now, but I want to put an MG42 on something. :p

Cleveland

11-21-2010, 10:28 AM

that's an impressive conversion. I'm kind of on the fence regarding the length of the barrel, but if that is how you envision the gun to be (using the example of extended barrels on tanks is a good basis), then who am I to say that it is wrong.

Yurimow

11-21-2010, 10:32 AM

So I was thinking about this all night last night... because well the new barrell does look amazing. Why not reposition the the entire length back so that the middle of the barrel is at the connection joint. Kind of like an underslung RPG/bazooka...or any other over the shoulder projectile dellvery system.
maybe in the middle of the barrel would be a bit too much, but repositioning the cannon back a little, imho it would look less out of scale
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/1141/105mmdefender.jpg

blakbuzzrd

11-21-2010, 11:59 AM

Sorry for the terrible example, but I see this being more dynamic and making better use of the length on that barrel. Then again, I don't have the model so I don't know how easily reposed he is. Cheers!

Hmm. I do have some Nomad legs set aside for a Stormclad conversion...

+1 for the Heavy Arms pic. I know Gundam Wing is widely considered a girls' show, but I still love the mech designs. Especially the Tallgeese and Epyon.

EpicAstinos

11-21-2010, 12:04 PM

Hmm. I do have some Nomad legs set aside for a Stormclad conversion...

+1 for the Heavy Arms pic. I know Gundam Wing is widely considered a girls' show, but I still love the mech designs. Especially the Tallgeese and Epyon.
Deathscythe is what caught my attention, back in the day. I searched Gundam because I figured they were the franchise most likely to have the necessary elements for a decent comparison shot.

I may just have to buy a barrel for a more streamlined Cannoneer conversion. Now wouldn't that be intimidating...

blakbuzzrd

11-21-2010, 12:05 PM

I may just have to buy a barrel for a more streamlined Cannoneer conversion. Now wouldn't that be intimidating...

And thus the arms race begins.

Zero_Dragon

11-21-2010, 09:17 PM

Damn you all!!!

Must find some Tank Barrels for my Defenders now...

^_^

Nice mod... though I agree that there are some scale issues...

The Guy

11-21-2010, 10:06 PM

And thus the arms race begins.

Pun intended?

Cyryst

11-21-2010, 10:50 PM

Wow thats some sweet converting, from a certain Historical ww2 wargaming veteran whos now playing warmachine I REALLY like the conversions
as for the MG42 comment, why not mount it on top of that troll warbeast with the trollkin gunner on its back?

johnny blaze

11-21-2010, 11:29 PM

we are playing a fantasy game and you guys are telling he must make it a bit shorter....
leave it that big, its your boomstick :)

nice job

amazonwarlord

11-22-2010, 03:49 AM

we are playing a fantasy game and you guys are telling he must make it a bit shorter....
leave it that big, its your boomstick

quoted for truth! :D

WintersChill

11-22-2010, 07:17 AM

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OMGWTFSTFUGTFOPANCAKES!

Awesome!

Naahz

11-22-2010, 10:49 AM

I don't like it's original pose. Way too unbalanced. If you bothered to use a realistic gun barrel you should pose it realistically or shorten it. What if you did it as a shoulder mounter Bazooka style gun, that way it could be the same length but hang over the back so that the loading mechanism counter balances the barrel - look more like a heavy gear recoilless or something.

Mael

11-22-2010, 12:32 PM

Agreed. Shorten it up if possible (not sure how possible it is). Did I read aluminum?

Cambeul

11-22-2010, 12:52 PM

To shorten just use what a Plumber uses to cut Pipe.

It looks like a Vanquisher class Defender (40K Leman Russ reference), and for sake of playability I would either Shorten the barrel a bit, or try and raise it so that you can attempt to models in base to base with it. This is coming from someone who has a Deathjack, and IFP who actually have Reach on their brass rod pikes.

And now someone has to make a regular defender with Petey Pirahna coming out of the Barrel for the lawls.

squidstudios

11-22-2010, 04:27 PM

maybe in the middle of the barrel would be a bit too much, but repositioning the cannon back a little, imho it would look less out of scale
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/1141/105mmdefender.jpg

Personally, I'd run with something along this idea. I support your idea of a longer, beefier barrel, and I think you've made a good choice in inspiration. But it does look like it needs to be balanced a bit, and I think the most aesthetically appealing way to do it would be to set the gun back a bit on the arm. Not sure how to do it, exactly. :D

marxlives

11-22-2010, 04:35 PM

^ With a mini saw, some excellent pinning work and some glue!!!

blakbuzzrd

11-22-2010, 05:25 PM

Okay, so I went with EpicAstinos's idea first, and have started a leg swap. The old legs are out, a new hip axle and Nomad legs are in test fitting. Here's what it looks like at the moment:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5089/5200364556_3c4b1df1e6.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4145/5200364884_9384261dd9.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5001/5200364772_719f43148f.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4124/5200364644_8c72633e5d.jpg

Not only do the new legs add height, but they naturally pitch the barrel up into more of an artillery angle. IMO the whole thing is much more dynamic, like a Kaiyodo sculpt of an Evangelion. I need to transplant the Defender kneecaps, but I think I like this conversion as it stands (so to speak).

EpicAstinos

11-22-2010, 05:32 PM

Oh yes! If anyone's ever taken something I said and used it for Good, it's this. Now, that said, seeing his pose made me try it out. Hold yourself in that position and see how it feels.

I feel like his right arm should come down and let the barrel be showcased, like he's really getting ready to fire it. Thoughts?

blakbuzzrd

11-22-2010, 05:59 PM

Hmm. Well, I studied karate for some years, so that pose isn't entirely unfamiliar to me. OTOH, the lowered barrel does look pretty cool. I need to get the legs fixed to the hip axle, and then I can make pitch adjustments.

EpicAstinos

11-22-2010, 06:28 PM

I've been toying around with Photoshop (horribly. I've no experience with it) to try and repose the picture into the idea in my head. I finally figured out how to save it as a JPEG. Sorry if I'm butting in with more ideas than is prudent (and please, let me know if I am), mods just get me excited. Here's what I was thinking about on the re-angling of his arm:

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww117/Antiphonus_Faust/JackGunnercopy.jpg?t=1290483201

blakbuzzrd

11-22-2010, 06:47 PM

Oh, the RIGHT arm. I need to read more closely. Hmm -- now that's a new idea. Let me get the legs in place and see what it looks like. Almost makes me wonder what it would look like with that arm out to the side like the Nomad's sword arm.

And no worries about ideation -- I do the same thing. My mind starts turning on this stuff and it doesn't stop until I actually try it.

Otzlowe

11-23-2010, 12:34 PM

maybe in the middle of the barrel would be a bit too much, but repositioning the cannon back a little, imho it would look less out of scale
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/1141/105mmdefender.jpg

This was the exact suggestion I was going to make, and I feel like it makes sense anyway. That arm joint where it was is part of what makes it look long, regularly. If you set the gun back a bit and make the axis a bit more central, it'll look totally fitting.