Menoth Tiers

[Cannotcope]

I've been away from the game and the forums for a while (actually before my recent return, due to the Mk2 Hordes FT, my last login was Nov 2005, iirc), anyway, having looked at some of the Elf Tiers I was wondering if anything had been posted about Menoth Tiers?

Rumors, Speculation, Wild and Crazy Ideas?

Some of it seems pretty obvious.

Feora and eFeora would have TFG related restrictions
Kreoss and eKreoss would be Exemplars
The others aren't so obvious, though I would have thought Silent Bob and ToM would have zealot leanings. No idea on what would be gained (other than probably relaxing of the UA limits, or perhaps a free solo)

Not sure about the choir. It is such a Menoth icon to me that having it restricted to certain casters' tiers might turn me off Menoth tiers it's not allowed it.

Anyway, did I miss the big discussion or should we start one up?

[Nargacuga]

Harby with the Paladins

Vindictus with Zealots

[Spike0011]

Can you pin zealots on one caster? A zealot is a zealot, there's no caster pride they are not inspired more by one Menoth leader than another.

[Nargacuga]

I don't know.. Vindictus might have an edge.:p

[moorg]

Just because they're mentioned specifically in his write up?

:p

[spoole75]

Ad Raza, Order of the Fist, and dervishes

[corrinmana]

Ad raza
Tier 1 get a Idrian UA for free.
Tier 2 gives AoOoF advance deploy.
Tier 3 gives AoOoF Pathfinder
Tier 4 take a free Dervish

Edit: Tier 3 won't happen because we know that tiers will not change the way a model plays. So maybe FA3 on AoOoF.

[corrinmana]

Feora
T1 Units must be flamegaurd.
T2 must take 2 TFG.
T3 must take cleansers.
T4 must include Daughters.

Rewards
T1 Increase FA of all Flamegaurd units by 1
T2 gain Free TFG UA
T3 All Flamegaurd units are -1 cost
T4 May begin the game with upkeep spells in place.

[Yertle4]

I don't think pKreoss will get Exemplars. eKreoss will most certainly. And I bet his tier list makes him workable - like Tier 2 granting Tactician [Exemplar] to all Exemplar models.

[jandrese]

Feora
T1 Units must be flamegaurd.
T2 must take 2 TFG.
T3 must take cleansers.
T4 must include Daughters.

Rewards
T1 Increase FA of all Flamegaurd units by 1
T2 gain Free TFG UA
T3 All Flamegaurd units are -1 cost
T4 May begin the game with upkeep spells in place.

I've bolded the one that won't happen. That would be seriously abusive with 4 point units and a FA bonus. We're talking about 26 TFG on the field for 12 points.

[Lanz]

I've bolded the one that won't happen. That would be seriously abusive with 4 point units and a FA bonus. We're talking about 26 TFG on the field for 12 points.

And Ravyn's mage hunter tier list isn't abusive?

[Steampunk Jim]

I don't think pKreoss will get Exemplars. eKreoss will most certainly. And I bet his tier list makes him workable - like Tier 2 granting Tactician [Exemplar] to all Exemplar models.


Why in the world would pKreoss NOT have exemplar? He may not give them lots of bonuses, but I can almost guarantee you he'll have them available.

[JRedbeard]

My interests are turning very exemplar heavy... anyone care to take a guess at what kreoss' tiers will look like or if any other casters will be exemplar heavy?

[jandrese]

Reznik might come in Exemplar heavy since they're the closest thing thematically to him, especially the Bastions.

Sevvy, and the Testament would both seem to be more fodder heavy. The Harbinger is pretty neutral and will probably be able to field anybody. Feora obviously goes with Flameguard. Amon will presumably be Idrian and jack oriented. I don't know enough about Vendi yet to say for sure, but his fluff makes him sound like another fodder guy.

[Gorbad]

Reznik might come in Exemplar heavy since they're the closest thing thematically to him, especially the Bastions.


It doesn't really matter what Reznik is, the question is, who is he hanging around with at the moment? Because that's who you will get in the theme list.

[LordGrimlok]

I'm hoping we get free Seneschals with either of the Kreoss tiers. And now that we have an Errant UA, we may get it free in a higher tier.

As for Feora, I'm guessing that we also get a flameguard UA for free so that we can have 2 full tarpits that we can cycle ignite with.

[baronvonchaos]

I hope we get some bonus to support. Free support. Hey I can dream can't I? In this list... The covenant is free.

I couldn't even speculate as to what the tiers would really be. They're going to be awesome though.

[PitLord]

I am thinking that we will largely not like our lists as many of them will prohibit choir/vassal.

[Lord Xalys]

I am thinking that we will largely not like our lists as many of them will prohibit choir/vassal.

Which would make the theme lists quite interesting to play IMHO. Playing with Choir and Vassal is 'standard', which you can always do and which works well. Playing tiers is 'themed'. It's more for fun an the odd approach than anything, really. Also, infantry-heavy lists won't be needing 'jack support that much...

LX

[Marius]

It doesn't really matter what Reznik is, the question is, who is he hanging around with at the moment? Because that's who you will get in the theme list.

Wracks and Severius. He's been in the background once and all he did was wrack someone when Severius told him to. Aside from that he has no other associated stuff, so Jandrese's guess is as good as anyone elses.

[teos40k]

Harby with pallies.... Bonus to give Vilmon flying steel rule back... lol (Just wishing..)

[Marius]

Harby with pallies.... Bonus to give Vilmon flying steel rule back... lol (Just wishing..)

I'd buy that for a dollar.

[JRedbeard]

What did flying steel do?

[Demeritus]

What did flying steel do?

d3 attacks during your activation.

[Moonblade]

That would be seriously abusive with 4 point units and a FA bonus. We're talking about 26 TFG on the field for 12 points.

I think "Temple Flameguards get their maximum unit COST reduced by 1" makes better sense.

[Marius]

I think "Temple Flameguards get their maximum unit COST reduced by 1" makes better sense.

If the Flameguard are reduced by 1" then the Daughters of the Flame will be very sad :(.

[Soulblighter]

I doubt Flameguard will get a cost reduction given how inexpensive they already are. Castigators might cost 1 less with Feora though.

[Yertle4]

Why in the world would pKreoss NOT have exemplar? He may not give them lots of bonuses, but I can almost guarantee you he'll have them available.
Of course, I misphrased. I mean he won't have an exemplar theme, they'll just be there, hanging out, playing Nintendo....

[Marius]

Of course, I misphrased. I mean he won't have an exemplar theme, they'll just be there, hanging out, playing Nintendo....

Kinda like Cmdr Styker can take Stormblades, but Lord Cmdr Stryker wants to take Stormblades, Storm Lances, Stormsmiths, Stormguard, Stormcoffee etc....

[jandrese]

I wonder if one of pSevvy's bonuses will be "can start the game with an upkeep in play for free"?

[Seebass]

I wonder if one of pSevvy's bonuses will be "can start the game with an upkeep in play for free"?

I sure hope not. That's the worst tier bonus ever.

[Soulblighter]

I dont think its the worst tier bonus at all. It lets your warcaster run first turn because they dont have to cast spells. Theres way worse tier bonuses like the +1 to the starting roll tier bonus. If your opponent beats your starting roll you dont even get a benefit.

[Skyydragonn]

I dont think its the worst tier bonus at all. It lets your warcaster run first turn because they dont have to cast spells. Theres way worse tier bonuses like the +1 to the starting roll tier bonus. If your opponent beats your starting roll you dont even get a benefit.not to mention it saves him the initial casting cost, allowing him to sling a couple extra spells that turn if he chose to.

[Invader Larb]

Getting upkeeps going for free depends on the caster. It is okay for Rhan but incredibly powerful for Magnus! So it again depends.

I'm thinking Reznik may get some extra Wracks for free and for them to be useful at all, they will need better than normal 6" AD. That is probably one of his tier benefits.

[darisus]

I MIGHT think about using wracks more if they say got there old 12" deploy and fear aura back with Reznik.

[Moonblade]

If the Flameguard are reduced by 1" then the Daughters of the Flame will be very sad :(.

That " is a quote, not inch mark.

It's hilarious if the Tier Bonus is Your SPD is reduced by 1"

[Warpriest]

I think Marius was referring to something other than speed.

[Moonblade]

pFeora looks like she has some relationship to the Devouts (as seen in Escalation). Furthermore she dislikes the Paladins of the Order of the Wall, and the Devouts are perfect substitution for them.

On the other hand eFeora seems to fancy Vanquishers, as we can see in the Protectorate of Menoth Force Book cover. I doubt the tier bonus will reduce Vanquisher point cost though. A warjack that good for 7 points is an absolute steal.

[jandrese]

That could actually be one of the cool things PP could do with the tiers but won't.

Tier 3 or 4: One unit of TFG taken with this army may become Heavy TFG. Heavy TFG gain +3 ARM (same as the Errants) but suffer -1 SPD.

[kodra]

Here's my guess at pSevvy

Models allowed:
All non-Unique Warjacks and Blessing of Vengence
Deliverers, Deliverer Sunburst Crew, Zealots and UA, Choir of Menoth, [maybe] Visgoth Rhoven
Vassal, Covenant, Hierophant, [maybe] Wracks, Paladin Solos

Theme being "Overwhelming holiness used to lead masses of untrained converted"

Tier 1: Only includes above units
Max Unit of Choir costs 1 less
Tier 2: Army contains two Zealot units
Zealots gain :Pathfinder: for the first turn
Tier 3: Army contains two Deliverer Units
Deliverer Units gain :Advance-Deploy:
Tier 4: Army contains at least 3 Warjacks
Add an additional Vassal to army (can exceed FA)

[gutstikk]

You forgot choir gain an additional attack and damage die.

[mike07]

I really hope they give eKreoss a hand. I love his fluff & model, but he is just so ... underwhelming right now. Hopefully the Errant UA will tie in this nicely and make my Exemplar theme force a reality.

[pyrolord314]

I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say the Harby's tiers will likely allow the inclusion of the Avatar. I'd love to see one of the bonuses increase the range of Martyrdom by 2" though I think it's unlikely.

Vilmon and his Paladins will probably be allowed too. Honestly, except for unique jacks, it's likely the Harbinger will be allowed to field basically anything since she has been rather universally adored and an inspiring figure.

[Soulblighter]

I really hope they give eKreoss a hand. I love his fluff & model, but he is just so ... underwhelming right now. Hopefully the Errant UA will tie in this nicely and make my Exemplar theme force a reality.

I hear ya. I really hope one of his tier bonuses is that Seneschals cost 1 point less. Because if one of his tier requirements is "2 or more Seneschals" and Seneschals cost 3 points each then no one is even gonna bother with that tier.

[darisus]

I hear ya. I really hope one of his tier bonuses is that Seneschals cost 1 point less. Because if one of his tier requirements is "2 or more Seneschals" and Seneschals cost 3 points each then no one is even gonna bother with that tier.

If it did i know a local Menoth player that would be doing a very happy dance as he uses eKreoss and senescahl alot and getting 4 attacks from a single model all autohitting plus only costing 2 points a piece would be crazy good.