do not forget

[alchahest]

we need to be submitting feedback on models we think need work. I don't think nearly as many people submitted feedback as there were commenting about things.

my feedback today will be for the following:

Swordsmen: need to have max unit one point cheaper and/or gain an ability.

Abbot & champ: cleave is far less useful without reach. perhaps pathfinder instead?

Warspears: unit nobody wanted to take is now more expensive? We need probably the most feedback on this unit here.

Teraph: still a fish without a pond. needs something to unify his design

Nephilim Protector: Gain set defense and lose powerful charge.

Nephilim Soldier: needs something to set it aside from being so vanilla. even if it means a point increase.


going to try to word it more eloquently than that, but that's the gist of it.

[Defenstrator]

Actually the Warpsears are a point cheaper. It's the Warmongers that became more expensive. I think this is one of those unintended consequence things where PP thought that making them equal in points will encourage people to play warspears, when the actual result is that people won't play warmongers.

[The Nightwalker]

well that's fixeable as long as we submit feedback and get some buffs to both units.

[Soulblighter]

Actually the Warpsears are a point cheaper. It's the Warmongers that became more expensive. I think this is one of those unintended consequence things where PP thought that making them equal in points will encourage people to play warspears, when the actual result is that people won't play warmongers.

The actual result is that people wont use either unit and will just use Gatormen instead.

[alchahest]

yeah. I'm glad I haven't purchased them yet. I might get some warspears later for conversion purposes, but... I can't justify that many dollars for something I don't want to field.

what can we do to make this unit viable?

[Garth]

There are 4 multiwound units that I like.

black ogrun boarding party. Cheap, but good.
Bastions - They can divide damage around. This is a great ability. Weaponmaster
Cerati: Arm 20, 8 hit points. Hard to kill, a walking brick. Weaponmaster.
Troll champions: With Krielstone Bearer and in BtB high arm, high def, good damage output.

Then there are the Warmongers. Cost 6/9 points with low armor, medium defense, medium damage output and berserk.
Or the warspears. Medium armor, medium defense (set defense), assault.

At the moment I think that the warspears might be even better.
But I won't buy or play one of this units with the current rules. I tried warmonger before and I didn't find them great. There were other much better units (see above). Now they got more expensive...

[coopernicus]

the warspears are better. Berzerk is such a good/bad ability, especially with MKII formation when you know they're coming at you.

Seeing those comparisons makes me cry. Cerati... Seriously!?

Warmongers and warspears should have DEF 13 and Berzerk should go, just give them Backswing. The ogres look pretty good on paper but in practice I've had them shot to poo or just out ranged.

Oh, and put their point back to 5/8 please!

[Mobile]

Yeaaaah... Mongers are pretty poor for their cost. Spears aren't bad. Unfortunately, the difference in these units is so minuscule, and both get overshadowed by swordsmen, whom are faster, harder to hit, come in greater number and hit as hard or harder. Or raptors, whom just rock face in so many roles it's hard to justify taking ogrun over them.

So what are warmongers for? What are warspears for? Compared to other units, they aren't very hard to kill, aren't very fast, don't put out much damage, don't have a much larger threat range, and are more expensive than many, many units that they don't compare to.

[leo_neil316]

What about pathfinder and +2 move on the charge or blood thirst for mongers?

It doesn't directly help their survivability, but gives them a very long threat range, which seems more in keeping with legion's style, they're tough enough that they still take some effort to move. Perfect for pinning down the enemy so you can get to what you want with the rest of your stuff.

As for warspears, give them ambuscade instead of assault so they can batter through heavy armour when they throw, since that's all they can hit. Maybe crit slam as well.

[Blighted Messiah]

Don't forget the acolyths!!

[thechimp]

things that need to be worked on:
spawning vessel, warmongers, warspears, n-soldiers, n-protectors and warchief

[alchahest]

so lets look at what we want from them. if we can unify what we want to see out of the design (even if the method for achieving it isn't the same across all of our posts) having a clear idea and testing these ideas is important to feedback.