Trenchers have been dropped from 7/11 to 6/10

[Khador247]

It was just posted in the General Discussion forum.


Uh, I assumed nothing would change between the final rules and the book, but Trenchers are 6 / 10 now. Now I'm going to have to go through with a fine tooth comb, looking for more changes.

[fildrigar]

Other changes:

Sentinal has Shield Guard

[Amarel]

I wouldn't normally go for such an exclamation, but: Woot (on both counts).

[Khador247]

Other changes:

Sentinal has Shield Guard

Seems odd since the Sentinal doesn't have a shield. Ah well, he needed something.

edit: Nevermind. My mistake.

[OldOneEye]

Seems odd since the Sentinal doesn't have a shield. Ah well, he needed something.
What Sentinel are you looking at? It's got a shield.

[Loki77515]

Seems odd since the Sentinal doesn't have a shield. Ah well, he needed something.
Yes it does. http://privateerpress.com/warmachine/gallery/cygnar/warjacks/sentinel

[Demeritus]

Seems odd since the Sentinal doesn't have a shield. Ah well, he needed something.

What do you mean the Sentinel doesn't have a shield?

[zephen18]

Seems odd since the Sentinel doesn't have a shield. Ah well, he needed something.


What sentinel have you seen? Sentinel has always had a shield.

*edit: yay for multiple simultaneous postings!

[fildrigar]

That's all I can find for Cygnar.

[Defenstrator]

That's still enough to make me a happy man. I actually yelled "Yes!" when I saw the Sentinel had Shield Guard. Good thing I was by myself. The change to Trenchers is also nice, making them expensive but not the crazy 7/11 for one wound models.

[Mutton]

...of all the buffs to give to the Sentinel, they gave it Shieldguard. I am quite confused.

[Amarel]

That's all I can find for Cygnar.
To be fair there was little else we needed.

Would be nice if the Firefly was super-cheap for the Sword Knights, but even a second Reach 'Jack (that doesn't pay for the Arc Node) is fine, really.

A boost to the GMCA and slight nerf to B13 would have been bigger changes than those two unexpected and welcome ones.

[Amarel]

...of all the buffs to give to the Sentinel, they gave it Shieldguard. I am quite confused.
It's got a shield and it's not a big enough ability to need testing - smells of glorious easy fix. I rather like it - makes it's an option for Jr., too.

[Sevwall]

4 pt shieldguard model is gold. Gold.

Weeeee small changes!

Makes me worried for THead autohit though. Or the B13th (5 points, here we come).

[Defenstrator]

Yeah, Shield Guard is a solid ability for him. He's cheap enough to take as a guard, has a ranged weapon so he can do stuff (if not well) while hanging out near what you want to protect, and is fairly durable for his points cost. I can actually justify the Sentinel with Kraye now. It moves up, kills a bit of stuff, and then uses its fast cavalry move to get back within 2" of Kraye to protect him.

[Khador247]

Yes it does. http://privateerpress.com/warmachine/gallery/cygnar/warjacks/sentinel

Sorry, my bad.

[Sevwall]

Its also a cool non-bokur way to protect all of our fiddly little solos.

JWC, meet your new buddy. No, you still can't marshall him.

[TsavongLah]

Yes! Now I don't feel bad about owning a full unit plus the UA and three Grenade Porters. The tiered lists are looking more and more attractive with the possibility of a free UA or WAs making the Trenchers a good buy for the price.

[Defenstrator]

I have to say that taking a Journeyman/Sentinel module looks more interesting to me with a way to protect the Journeyman. I'm not sure how good it will be since the Sentinel still isn't what yuo would describe as a damage dealer, but it's defiantely more viable.

The only downside of the Trenchers is that at 6/9 the Grenade Porters wouldn't be auto-includes when bulking out the unit. Currently you'll still buy three of them before considering spending the 4 points for 4 more trenchers, since they are trenchers but better because of the AOE.

[Techcasualty]

**** yes, victory for me

*hoists his own personal flag*

I think shieldguard is friggin AWESOME for the sentinel. The sentinel will never be a power house. End of line.
However, making him a tiny bit more expensive bokur that can shoot instead of stab is awesome. He can even headbutt and push.

He doesn't have the client ability tying him down ether. He's got one more armor than the bokur too nice

Trenchers at 6/10 is awesome, I love it. Now I have to make a decision. I know...crazy right? Do I want the firepower of the long gunners or the defensive capabilities of the trenchers.

[Arkady]

Since they had time to squeeze some changes into the main book (as I've said many a time they would, only to be shouted down by the lemmings :rolleyes:), I hope they devoted even more attention to the Faction books and fixed the trencher artillery. There may be hope for those grunts just yet.

[Rosicrucian]

...of all the buffs to give to the Sentinel, they gave it Shieldguard. I am quite confused.

It's a great buff. Shield Guard models like to hang back and the sentinel has a gun to utilize while he does so. Shield Guard is REALLY good since you can protect a ~8" bubble of models. Keeps people from sniping at your squire or journeyman or stormsmiths or whatnot as much as protect your caster from disruptor bolt. And he's A LOT tougher than the Bokur for only 1 more point. The Vanguard has performed fabulously for me for many of these same reasons.

[Techcasualty]

before it's even posted. While I think it is possible the TCC might see a change, do not hold your breath for the swordknights. I don't think they are going to change. Could be wrong tho

[Fryerdan]

*defiantly defends the tcc* the price drop is icing in my book. Ill still take a maxed out unit and if the price is right nab another cannon. I know I'm an obstinant bastard but dammit I'll make it work for me. Maybe not the best for the role I put it in for the cost but meh. Fluffy forever.

[Agamemnon]

*defiantly defends the tcc* the price drop is icing in my book. Ill still take a maxed out unit and if the price is right nab another cannon. I know I'm an obstinant bastard but dammit I'll make it work for me. Maybe not the best for the role I put it in for the cost but meh. Fluffy forever.

Play the models you want to play. It is a game and games are ment to be fun. Even less optimal models jack up a caster every now and then. Heck I have heard of the Cygnar Mechanic killing the Drakun...MKI

[whats82]

I've had my mechanic kill a berserker before, not gonna count on that but it's a good notch on his wrench :)

[CeltKhan]

The changes we've seen so far give me hope that Sword knights will get the upgrade that makes them what I've always needed them to be. It's not like they really need all that much: Rapid Strike or even Cleave would give them a unique capability vs swarms that neither Storms nor Precursors could match. That would certainly make up for their antiarmor deficiencies.

[Defenstrator]

I don't know. For me the Swordknights and UA almost need a total rethink. The knights themselves should get to pick location, so the ability is always useful with flank. I could also see +1 ARM, so they had ARM 17 when holding hands.

The UA needs to be more about buffing the Swordknights rather than being a jack marshall. If it granted Tactics: Cleave and had a solid mini-feat it would make a big difference.

Of course my dream is still Classic Equipment: This unit may take a Talon which only may be marshalled with this Swordknight unit.

[admanb]

I don't know. For me the Swordknights and UA almost need a total rethink. The knights themselves should get to pick location, so the ability is always useful with flank. I could also see +1 ARM, so they had ARM 17 when holding hands.

The UA needs to be more about buffing the Swordknights rather than being a jack marshall. If it granted Tactics: Cleave and had a solid mini-feat it would make a big difference.

Of course my dream is still Classic Equipment: This unit may take a Talon which only may be marshalled with this Swordknight unit.

Wouldn't a cheap Firefly have a similar value? :P

[knight_actual]

Can't get intel on the other changes.... do we know what the changes are in the other factions?

[Techcasualty]

only other changes are small, bilethralls do corrosion instead of crit corrosion and necrotech is 5 health

[Defenstrator]

Wouldn't a cheap Firefly have a similar value? :P
The problem is that I'm not expecting it to be that cheap. With reach and a gun I can't help but think 5 points. Plus the Talon is 4 points for effective ARM 18. Since his main job would be to stand there I want him durable.

[Safim]

On the other hand a gun + Pronto + Flank is a really nice combo.
Move up, shoot some doods, get prontoed into position, bring in the swordknights.

[tensteam]

WOHOOO!!! These changes (especially the Trenchers) sound almost like the best Christmas present!

Sentinel isn't going to kill much still, but Shield guard helps to protect many of our solos. It might actually work and it is really a positive sign that changes were done also after the releasing the 'final' rules.

A pity GMCA still stays on shelf.

[Safim]

The GMCA wasn't in Prime, so there is still hope.

[tensteam]

The GMCA wasn't in Prime, so there is still hope.
Oh that's right of course. I wonder why on Earth I did have that image it did? Feelings even higher now!

[tophalion]

Escalation was the first expansion all those years ago...So many things in Escalation were considered were taken for granted for so long (Nemo, SC, SK, Cent, GMCA, Stormsmith), that they often often considered part of the core landscape of the game. Imagine a Cygnar where our only in faction melee troop were the original Stormblades and our single solo was JR.

IIRC a good portion of Escalation models were those that couldn't make it into Prime for one reason or another.

Back on the main topic, I'm glad that we got a discount on the trenchers. Always bugged me that they cost more than LG even after the smoke bomb nerf.

Now if only they'd at least make Kat and Finn usable as buffs for their respective units. Kat is a joke as a beatstick solo and her buff is a 5" aura that improves SL shooting of all things while Makov crushes jacks much better and does everything for his Uhlans that she used to do. She was already a measured investment in MK1 when she snap, crackled, and popped D3 lighting, but now she costs relatively more for poorer synergy with only a moderate defense buff? And Finn....Veteran leader always was jank for anything other than melee, and him losing the Str7 and effective Def 15 hurt him when the design philosophy says they want him to be on the front lines. At least his gun isn't a joke anymore.

Who knows, they may even let the Cent buy attacks to put up Polarity field, but that's verging on crazy talk.

[leo_neil316]

**** yes, victory for me
He doesn't have the client ability tying him down ether. He's got one more armor than the bokur too nice


One more ARM and a metric ****ton more boxes, and benefits from in faction buffs.

[CeltKhan]

The problem is that I'm not expecting it to be that cheap. With reach and a gun I can't help but think 5 points. Plus the Talon is 4 points for effective ARM 18. Since his main job would be to stand there I want him durable.

Not only that, but the Firefly interacts with Stormsmiths. If it's true that he can serve as a "triangulation point" for the Smiths, I could see 6 points as being in the realm of possibility.

[Ger]

You can look up the jacks yourself. However the following are jacks with Shield Guard
Sentinel
Devout
Vanguard

Meat wise. The Devout and Sent are equivalently meaty with the Vanguard having +1 arm. So ya, good deal for your Cygnars.

[MadJack]

It's a great buff. Shield Guard models like to hang back and the sentinel has a gun to utilize while he does so. Shield Guard is REALLY good since you can protect a ~8" bubble of models. Keeps people from sniping at your squire or journeyman or stormsmiths or whatnot as much as protect your caster from disruptor bolt. And he's A LOT tougher than the Bokur for only 1 more point. The Vanguard has performed fabulously for me for many of these same reasons.
Yes, shield guard is a great buff. It's definitely not the buff I would have expected, but I like it a lot. The Sentinel should make a fantastic bodyguard.

Of course my dream is still Classic Equipment: This unit may take a Talon or a Nomad which only may be marshalled with this Swordknight unit, and counts as a faction warjack.
There, fixed it for you. :cool: Seriously, I know the Talon is cheaper and, because it has reach, would be almost as good as the more expensive Nomad for the purposes of the SK, but come on, how cool would it be to be able to run the little Sword Knights with their big brother?