Khador ranged army

[Gedaning]

Hi I'm new to Warmachine and I wanted to build an army for $200 or less. So a guy from the gaming store I go to came up with this 500point(I think he said it would prob be around 30-35 points for MRll) list for a ranged focused Khador army, since I'v always been more comfortable with ranged combat.

1x Battle Group
1x Field Gun(i assume winter guard)
Mortar ( '' '' '')
1x Winter guard box(i guess this is just the basic winter guard troops but im not sure)
1x '' '' blister
1x Battle Mechaniks
1x assault Kommandos

The thing is I look on Battlecollage.com and they said that the winter guard are not that good so I was wondering if something like widow makers would be better and if a khador army that is mostly ranged, or at least heavy artillery, is viable at $200 or less.

[Uehen]

Well you can only run 6 or 10 winter guard so get two blisters if you plan to get any.

Other than that it looks like a great place to start.

Except the assault commandos.
If you are just learning I suggest anything else.
Snipers, and a sniper solo perhaps?

If you like guns the sniper team are the guns for you.

But really, we do not really have much that sucks, so buy what you like, it is more fun that way.

[Gedaning]

What do you think of Taking out winter guard box, winter guard blister and kommandos, and replace them with Widomakers, Kell Bailoch solo,Eiryss Mage Hunter of Ios solo and Iron Fang pikeman.

[Electric Seal]

I'd sit tight and wait for the Rifle Corps to come out. It will come as a full squad, so no need to bolster with blisters.

Widowmakers
Rifle Corps + Joe G. (who will probably work with these guys)
Mortars / Field Gun
Destroyer
Kell Bailoch
Eiryss or Alten

I'd get at least one melee unit as well. Pikemen for instance.

[Sinsation]

Something to think about as well, if you're a big fan of ranged combat then you may want to look into Cygnar, they're better suited for a ranged devastation list.

[OrsusSmash]

I wouldn't go by BattleCollege info during the Mk. II transition; I think its going to be a little while before they really get everything polished up. As an example: for their cost, WG are pretty awesome in Mk. II. Just a note.

Now, onto ranged Khador: it can be done, but you have to know up front that you aren't playing to your factions strengths. Khador actually has really good fire support available, but it doesn't have near the necessary buffs or range to run a really effective "shooting" army.

Range is the critical component; in a ranged attack based army, you need to be able to reach out and touch your opponent from a long enough distance away that 1) they can't respond immediately and 2) your ranged attackers can cover each other. Khador has short range on its unit's guns, which means at best their shooting is more of a "softening" than the classic Longgunner decimation volleys (our artillery, Widowmakers, and the Destroyer all have great range though.)

So, as Sinsation suggested, if you want ranged superiority, Cygnar or Retribution are really the better ways to go. You can build a Khador army with really solid shooting, and it has the added benefit of being able to punch well/great (depending on the warcaster and units you take) when you finally close, but building a ranged heavy list is going to be tricky.

Now that the disclaimer is out of the way, if you're still interested in flinging lead in red (Strakov's other slogan?) you do have plenty of good options, and the releases this year will give you plenty to work with. I think the list you have is a good start, but I do agree that if you want really solid ranged for Khador, never leave home without the Widowmakers. That unit is still our best shooting unit, and its one of the best shooting units in Warmachine or Hordes. I also agree with Electric Seal in that getting Kell Bailoch to go with the Widowmakers will give you a salty sniper contingent.

I'd also recommend swapping Sorscha out from the battlebox for Irusk1 (i.e. non-epic Irusk) when you get the chance. Inhospitable Ground can (and usually will) buy you more time to shoot your enemy to ribbons, Battle Lust helps your army hit harder when its time for melee (a great way to shore up the biggest weakness of the Assault Kommandos,) Iron Flesh is an awesome support spell, and Irusk can lend his own fair share of ranged pain with Airburst and his ROF2 Sword Cannon.

[thomwill]

i would also think that the behemoth (though expensive point-wise and $-wise) would be a must have for a red ranged list.

[vytzka]

i would also think that the behemoth (though expensive point-wise and $-wise) would be a must have for a red ranged list.
Definitely. Not only it puts the hurt on people downrange but it can smash face like nobody's business which is especially relevant if you've only got one jack.

[thomwill]

Definitely. Not only it puts the hurt on people downrange but it can smash face like nobody's business which is especially relevant if you've only got one jack.

agreed. i don't play it often, because i really dislike the model, but it seems to be one of our most versatile jacks.

[Sinsation]

The big problem with the behemoth though for the OP I imagine is cost. If he wants to build a cost-effective army, the behemoth, while a fair number of points, is rather expensive. Looking online at prices, you're getting $23 vs. $45 in a destroyer/behemoth comparison. The iron fang pikemen won't be strong shooters, but they are good in melee. They are also a bit pricey.

I'd proxy like crazy when you're trying to build an army like you say you are. Our winterguard, assault kommandos, and kossites are all unorthodox shooters I'd say, and the style may not be something you like. Lump in the greylords as shooters too I'd say. Consider their magic spray attack like an icy shotgun.

And because it can't be repeated enough, if you're on a budget, proxy (use other models or just bases when playing) like crazy. Know what you want and like early.

[Avecrien]

I heartily support proxy games when you're getting into the game or a new faction. I hate having purchased models I don't like to field. Try multiple casters especially, as they can be the biggest shakeup to the way the game is played. If you aren't crazy about pSorscha, skip the battle box and get what you prefer. I never bought the battlebox for Khador but got good use out of one with a previous faction. Be a smart shopper, proxy! :)

If you decide to stay red, I think you'll find yourself slowly broken of relying on ranged. That's been my experience, at least. We use ranged to tenderize and goad, more rarely as a primary offense or finisher.
A good force needs some balance so I think we all need ranged offense in a competitive army. Widowmakers are fantastic and I consider Behemoth to be a dream. He's worth the cost(both of them) for me since he fits great in any army under any caster.
I don't personally encourage new players to pickup artillery units due to their nuance, but if the people you play with are supportive and you like em under proxy, go for it.

I'm eager to see the rifle corps since I, too, come from a heavy ranged background. If you can afford to wait to see them, it could be worth your while.

[Gedaning]

I think what we were trying to do with my list was have the ranged act more as artillery to soften up the other army and then smash them with the heavy warjacks and heavy infintry

[fredster]

For artillery you want the Destroyer and mortars, great range with good strength and you can boost the destroyer.

For softening I'd definitely consider the full Winter guard combo with ESorscha

10 Winter Guard Rng 8 Pwr 12 + Combined Range Attack (CRA)
3 Rocketeers Rng 14 Pwr 12 AOE 3"
Officer+ SB Turns shotguns into Spray weapons
Kovnik Joe: Boosted attack rolls
Sorscha Reroll missed CRA's

Coupled with the Destroyer and a mortar you'll be lobbing
1 big AOE at 15-20"
4 more AOE's at 0-14"
6 Combined Range attacks (All WG paired up) at 0-8" at +2 to hit, +2 to damage, a boosted attack roll and the ability to re-roll any misses!

If your moving you'll hit def 17 opponents on average (3d6+5+2), if you're stood still you'll be hitting def 19 (3d6+5+2+2) with a power 14 hit!

Thats an average damage roll of 21, so goodbye most single wound high arm targets, and even jacks/beasts are hurting (Average 3.5 points damage on heavies), on Sorscha's feat turn that becomes 7 points damage!! Plus you get to re-roll misses!!

Then you roll on in their with some heavy hitting beatsticks and you've got just enough opponent left for Beast 09 to snack on!

[Gedaning]

That sounds pretty cool but would that army cost $200 or less and would I need other units because I did not want to spend more then $200 on my first 35point army.

[Avecrien]

I got curious and tallied up what all I could nab for $200.
I wound up with a battlebox, behemoth, Full winterguard, UA, full rocketeers, Kovnik Joe, Widowmakers, eSorscha, a wardog, and a mk2 faction deck. That's 47points and two casters to play with along with cards for anything you might get your hands on or want to proxy.

If you don't like the behemoth or some aspect of the battlebox, you've got plenty of room to reconfigure by dropping those. Or drop the whole winterguard package and rebuild from there.

Would be easier for me to decide on this situation if the rifle corps weren't just over the horizon.

[Gedaning]

well i think i would rather get beast 09 rather then behemoth and we are going to play 35 point games at my gaming store.

[Gedaning]

I was wondering for winter guard what counts toward the 10 winter guard limit do things like the mortars or attachments count toward the 10 figure limit on winter guard? If not are the blisters how you fill out the rest of the winter guard ( though I was thinking of just geting rifle corps when that comes out anyway)?

[Avecrien]

Mortars and Field guns are different units from the "Winter Guard Infantry." You get 10 infantry models, then the UA, and up to 3 models for the rocketeers WA. And Kovnik Joe follows as his own distinct piece of awesome.

[Gedaning]

I came up with this list, I'm pretty sure this would cost more then the $200 I want to spend, but I was wondering If this would be good to work towards?

Army Points: 35

Name Cost
Kommander Sorscha Kratikoff -5
Juggernaut 7
Destroyer 9
Winter Guard (10/10) (will prob be rifle corps once it comes out assuming they fit with my army) 6
Winter Guard Mortar Crew (2) 3
Winter Guard Rocketeer 1
Winter Guard Rocketeer 1
Winter Guard Rocketeer 1
Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich 2
Winter Guard Officer and Standard Bearer 2
Great Bears of Gallowswood (3) 5
Winter Guard Mortar Crew (2) 3

[fredster]

Why not E-Sorscha, on feat turn in a recent game my WG unit which was only 6 strong with 3 Rocketeers and UA blew away two Warpwolves using 3 rockets and 4 CRA's and Josef calling for addditional attak dice, it was awesome to behold!

Plus she gives you an extra jack point, and buffs the winterguard with two additional abilities.

[Gedaning]

well I would get e-sorscha but I was really trying to save some money on that at first because I think this list is already going to cost more then the $200 I wanted to spend on my starting list. I prob also would not use juggernaut, but i figured i would save some money since it comes in the battle box as well and i suppose its its a farly good jack.

[Avecrien]

If you prefer eSorscha to her prime version and don't care to run juggy, the battlebox isn't going to save you any money. You'd be better off just getting what you want to play.

[Gedaning]

I just took another look at Juggernaut and wile its not spectacular its stats don't seem that bad. For its point cost im not sure if there are any other jacks i would want to field in this list. I suppose I could use Kodiak if i got eSorscha but without access to the stat card I'm not sure how well it would fit my army and if getting eSorsha and something like kodiak is worth the extra money i would have to spend.

[Avecrien]

Kodiak is a point more, two open smashy fists, it runs free, has pathfinder, and it's chain attack lets you do all kinds of shenanigans. Oh and it has a special steam attack to block LoS and kill infantry swarms. Very versatile and powerful jack.

[Gedaning]

ya I get what you mean, how good of a army do you think that would be if i extanged Sorscha for eSorscha and juggernaught for Kodiak? and I was wondering if you had any idea about how much this would cost?

[Avecrien]

I buy from miniaturemarket.com when I don't feel obligated to support my local shops. That website has great service and nice discounts. I visited their store when I lived in StL, too. Good folks. You could throw everything into the cart on that site to see what you could afford.
And that army looks like fun to me! But keep in mind that the rifle corps are a different unit. They will benefit from Kovnik joe but won't use the infantry's rocketeers or UA.
I would look at points to consider a jack marshal(koldun lord) for the destroyer so Sorscha can save focus, but either way you've got potential there.

[Gedaning]

I looked up the prices and it seems i can get it for around $200, it was around $140 but they did not have the mortars and 1 rocket, so around $200 is what it will likely be. But i was wondering if Iron fang pikeman unit box would be better for this army instead of the bears just because the higher unit count might create more of a barrier for there melee to get to my ranged guys. But having just played the demo i don't know if it really matters and if having the bears which is a full units would be better.

[Gedaning]

I was also considering trying to include wardog and/or field gun crew but i don't know if there is anything i would want to remove as every unit seems to have an important role that it fills right now. I suppose it would be easier if i had stat cards of these units and not just a vague idea of that they do.

[Deamons_word]

I was also considering trying to include wardog and/or field gun crew but i don't know if there is anything i would want to remove as every unit seems to have an important role that it fills right now. I suppose it would be easier if i had stat cards of these units and not just a vague idea of that they do.

the basic cards are on the privateer press main site (atleast they were)

As for the wardog - can be useful to protect sorscha

Field guns - I used 2 in the mark 1 rules as tempered ammo means 1 block damage = one full row, using 2 was nasty...however I don't find that rule on the new cards so they have now dropped dramatically in my eyes. Not happy :S

[Gedaning]

Ya I was not sure about including the field gun but the wardog was something i wanted to try to include, but the only thing i can think to remove is one rocket which I'm not sure is a good idea since this list is supposed to be heavy ranged/artillery.