Who is "Menoth"? (Yes, it's relevant to modeling)

[squidstudios]

This thread, yes, could have gone in the IKRPG boards, but in this case it's relevant to modeling, I swear. I'm burning out on the standard PoM faction colors at the same time that I am getting ready to paint the Avatar soon. In light of the Avatar being divinely inspired and, well, the 'avatar' of Menoth...I'm considering a scheme for it that exemplifies Menoth himself. The problem is...I'm not really sure who Menoth is. I mean, why do people follow him so passionately? Powermongering and fear of the scrutators and of punishment, sure, but what about the Knights Exemplar and Paladins and others who follow willingly--why do they serve?

So, I take the question to the people! Who is the deity known as 'Menoth'? What is his character? Why do his followers follow him so passionately? Your answers may well determine the scheme of my Avatar, be it white, black, or anything between.

[Agamemnon]

Yeah even though it does relate to modeling this quesion might get more answers in the Menoth forum.

[TheBigRedMachine]

Menoth as I understand him from the IKRPG and Warmachaine fluff is the Creator of man. He brought forth the first humans and set them loose on Caen. Then he did something else for a bit. Humans did somethings that attracted his attention again and he gave them Laws (hence the Lawgiver title) and knowledege to build walls to protect them. He left to do other stuff again. Mankind grew more and once again attracted his attention kind impressing him with our resilence.

That is of course a "VERY" rough timeline and I could be overlooking forgetting some things.

He is the One true God of men. He's pretty hands off until you impress him.

In the end The Avatar is a jack built to glorify him and all he stands for. There is most likely a small piece of his divine conscience in the jack. So go with deep and rich colors. Lots of gold and silver details that are highly polished. No battle damage.

[modelpainter]

I have only this to offer:

Build a man a fire and he will stay warm for the night.
Set a man on fire and he will stay warm for the rest of his life.

[Brock_Vilmon]

@ the OP - Mark II supposedly has some great new historical fiction on all the factions. You may want to wait and see if you're inspired. My understanding is Menoth is a Lawful Neutral god who values sacrifice, loyalty, faith, and purity. The avatar would therefore be devoid of the flashier elements of the temple flameguard or the darker elements of the scrutators or executioners.

If you want to get a good idea for cool religious themes, you could look at some of the crusader schemes from our history. Some examples include:

White with red highlights - Knights Templar
Black with white highlights - Knights Hospitaller
Red with white highlights - Knights of Malta
White with black highlights - Teutonic Knights

[AndyFrazer]

Yep... as above... Menoth is the "God of Man" and all other gods and their followers are below him... even if he says so himself! :rolleyes:

The reason his followers are so devoted is simple. Those who aren't devoted are in trouble... you've heard of the Spanish Inquisition... yes?

The Church of Menoth is that style of religion... believe... convert... or be "convinced".

As for colour schemes, you could look at the various dress of real world clergy... get your google-finger out!

The Catholic Church has some good, bright colour schemes (lots of purples, reds and black with numerous embellishments), the Anglican Church is much the same... it throws some green into the mix.

I painted my Choir in black with red belts and other "cloth bands", they make a nice contrast to the rest of my "cream & brass" force.

As for the Jacks, I was toying with the idea of painting them "stone grey" with embellishments to make them look like gothic churches/cathedrals... that would certainly be a snazzy idea for the Avatar, especially with its "gothic window" shaped insets in its carapace... they are crying out for a "stained glass window" effect.

Hope that helps...

[admanb]

As for the Jacks, I was toying with the idea of painting them "stone grey" with embellishments to make them look like gothic churches/cathedrals... that would certainly be a snazzy idea for the Avatar, especially with its "gothic window" shaped insets in its carapace... they are crying out for a "stained glass window" effect.

Hope that helps...

That I would very much like to see.

[Avecrien]

From:
http://privateerpress.com/iron-kingdoms/introduction-to-the-iron-kingdoms/deities-of-the-iron-kingdoms


Man's Ancient Patron, Menoth

http://privateerpress.com/files/images/ikcg-symbol-of-menoth.img_assist_custom-170x190.pngSymbol of MenothThe worship of Menoth (lawful neutral) is ancient, predating the Church of Morrow by millennia. Menoth is a strict, vengeful deity, credited by most humans (even those who follow the Twins) with the creation of the world and mankind. It's unquestionable that Menoth exists, for his priests were once the powerful ruling class of the land. Alas for Menoth, the more uplifting and tolerant message of Morrow began to take hold with the people, and today the worship of Menoth is a minority faith everywhere except the Protectorate. Outside of the Protectorate, the largest minority serving Menoth is among the "Old Faith" of Khador, where many citizens cling tenaciously to the worship of their ancient creator.
Menoth is usually depicted as a masked giant, towering over his frightened worshippers. He demands adherence to a strict code of conduct ? part of which is providing constant tribute to Menoth and his priests. The notion that a man may "ascend," so central to the worship of Morrow and Thamar, is blasphemy in the church of Menoth. To Menoth, man's place is to serve his creator, and his reward is to pass quietly into oblivion.


His big things seem to be masks and walls. I've always sided with the trolls' perspective on the gods, personally, and that adds a somewhat different view and appearance to Menoth.

[zengoth]

From Buccaneer Bass (http://www.buccaneerbass.com/rls/html/homenews/index.shtml):


The worship of Menoth (lawful neutral) is ancient, predating the Church of Morrow (http://www.buccaneerbass.com/rls/html/enc/detail.php?mode=&entryname=Morrow) by millennia. Menoth is a strict, vengeful deity, credited by most humans (even those who follow the Twins) with the creation of the world and mankind. It's unquestionable that Menoth exists, for his priests were once the powerful ruling class of the land. Alas for Menoth, the more uplifting and tolerant message of Morrow (http://www.buccaneerbass.com/rls/html/enc/detail.php?mode=&entryname=Morrow) began to take hold with the people, and today the worship of Menoth is a minority faith everywhere except the Protectorate (http://www.buccaneerbass.com/rls/html/enc/detail.php?mode=&entryname=Protectorate of Menoth). Outside of the Protectorate (http://www.buccaneerbass.com/rls/html/enc/detail.php?mode=&entryname=Protectorate of Menoth), the largest minority serving Menoth is among the "Old Faith" of Khador (http://www.buccaneerbass.com/rls/html/enc/detail.php?mode=&entryname=Khador), where many citizens cling tenaciously to the worship of their ancient creator.

Menoth is usually depicted as a masked giant, towering over his frightened worshippers. He demands adherence to a strict code of conduct – part of which is providing constant tribute to Menoth and his priests. The notion that a man may "ascend," so central to the worship of Morrow (http://www.buccaneerbass.com/rls/html/enc/detail.php?mode=&entryname=Morrow) and Thamar (http://www.buccaneerbass.com/rls/html/enc/detail.php?mode=&entryname=Thamar), is blasphemy in the church of Menoth. To Menoth, man's place is to serve his creator, and his reward is to pass quietly into oblivion.

[PPS_Mod:Josh]

Pretty well covered already, but at least as far as Western Immoren is concerned, humankind moved northwards into the general area of the Protectorate and there found the Canon of the True Law inscribed upon some ruins. And because nothing says 'we should model ourselves after these guys' like an ancient, ruined civilization that's be dead for hundreds of years in the middle of a scorching desert, they started worshipping Menoth. And of course, with worship comes people who tell you how to worship, aka priests- and in this case, priest-kings.

Of course, they weren't just priest-kings. No, back when this whole worship thing was new, you needed more on your resume than just 'this invisible man in the sky you've never heard of before said so.' These priest kings came up with things like irrigation, and fire, and laws, and fire, and sharp pointy sticks, and fire, and walls, and fire (although it's a safe bet they got the whole walls idea from the ruins).

And around this point the priest-kings of Menoth began one of the central tenets of the faith, which is to get dressed up all fancy-like and then kill anyone who says you look like an idiot. A tradition that's been passed down for thousands of years, in fact. And lots of people thought the priest-kings looked like idiots, specifically the Molgur, which is Sulese for "those gits who stole our sharp pointy sticks idea."

And of course, there was lots of fighting, and during all of this they put the idea of walls to good use, particularly as the idea of a roof had been invented long beforehand but kept falling on people. In fact walls were religious symbols, and like most religious symbols, people liked having them around as they helped you avoid getting stabbed with sharp pointy sticks or thrown in a fire. And when they had a whole lot of walls, they called it a city. And this became the city of walls, aka Caspia.

Eventually the Menites combination of fire, sticks, and walls beat out the Molgur's idea of just sticks, bringing peace to the land and an end to the Molgur, who scattered all across Western Immoren but especially to the Scharde Islands, which didn't have a copyright enforcement treaty with Caspia.

And there's a lot more to it than that, obviously, but that fairly well covers the basics of it. From there you've got all sorts of city-states and kings and invasions and so forth, and there's a few acts of terrorism, the odd assassination or two, and so on. By this point everyone worshipped Menoth because, well, that's just what you do. I mean, he's the god, right? The god. Not just a god, the god. There wasn't exactly a lot of options, and who has authority to investigate monopolies of diety-hood? The Federal Trade Commission? I don't think so.

But eventually Morrow and Thamar ascended, and their worship was small. And mostly it was an occasional mention of the Twins and lots of worship of Menoth, mostly because that kept you from visiting them. Then the Orgoth came and it just wasn't very happy. But most significantly there was a plague. And that plague got two very different responses:

Morrowans: Oh, let me see if I can help. Here, rest for a bit and I'll make some soup.

Menites: WALK IT OFF, JOHNSON!

Needless to say, for those people who were busy coughing up bits of lung and drowning in their own blood, a long walk wasn't nearly so appealing. Particularly when the Morrowans came up with soup that actually healed you. So the Morrowans got popular, and the Menites less so, particularly as their copyright had expired a long time ago and now fire, walls, and sharp pointy things were all public domain with an open source agreement and everything. And of course, the Menites blamed the Morrowans, and the Morrowans just sort of shrugged (but you know they were smirking inside, the bastards), and so it goes.

Sort of.

[zengoth]

Morrowans: Oh, let me see if I can help. Here, rest for a bit and I'll make some soup.

Menites: WALK IT OFF, JOHNSON!

Needless to say, for those people who were busy coughing up bits of lung and drowning in their own blood, a long walk wasn't nearly so appealing. Particularly when the Morrowans came up with soup that actually healed you. So the Morrowans got popular, and the Menites less so, particularly as their copyright had expired a long time ago and now fire, walls, and sharp pointy things were all public domain with an open source agreement and everything. And of course, the Menites blamed the Morrowans, and the Morrowans just sort of shrugged (but you know they were smirking inside, the bastards), and so it goes.

Sort of.


This post is full of WIN!!1!1!!!111!1!

:cool:

[Nyarlathotep333]

Pretty well covered already, but at least as far as Western Immoren is concerned, humankind moved northwards into the general area of the Protectorate and there found the Canon of the True Law inscribed upon some ruins...

...and so it goes.

Sort of.

OK, this has got to be the most awesome post on ANY forum I've been to in a looooooong time! Full of WIN and AWESOME! :D

[Avecrien]

Best Mod post I've ever seen <3

I've always loved the "Menoth wills it!" mentality. Broken arm? MENOTH WILLS IT! No medicine, no prosthetics, you take it like a man. Or lose it like a man. Either way.

[halbard100]

I wish i could quote that entire thing into my sig... but I think I'd be breaking a few rules.

[moorg]

Best Mod post I've ever seen <3

I've always loved the "Menoth wills it!" mentality. Broken arm? MENOTH WILLS IT! No medicine, no prosthetics, you take it like a man. Or lose it like a man. Either way.

Well, Menoth doesn't really need sissies...

[modelpainter]

...they are crying out for a "stained glass window" effect. That I would very much like to see.

Ask and ye shall receive
http://coolminiornot.com/pics/pics10/img43c1916799d3a.jpg

I wish I could take credit for this one but credit goes to CMON user GretchinDeathKommand (http://www.coolminiornot.com/index/whatm/Privateer%20Press/id/110337) - Click on the link and VOTE!

[Joroth]

Holy crap I hate that guy a lot:eek:

It literally looks like a walking cathedral-fortress

[odinsgrandson]

Wow, I like that paintjob. Very impressive.

Ok, there are a few different ideas about Menoth. The mythos of several religions can mix to tell us a fairly complete story, although it is hard to say exactly what is true from each of them.

In the beginning there was the Devourer Wurm- an embodiment of pure chaos- and Dhunia. The wurm chased Dhunia for some time and eventually caught up with her and ravished her.

Afterwards, Dhunia gave birth to the trolls and trollkin, Ogruns and Gobberkind (and possibly others) but the firstborn was a very large Ogrun called Menoth.

Menoth swore to avenge what happened to his mother, and set out chasing after the Devourer Wurm- eventually becomming all consumed in the task and forgetting his origins and original reasons for chasing the Wurm.

That part comes from Dhunian myths. Mind, Menoth is always portrayed with a mask, so it is possible that the Creator of Man is not human at all.


Man was not created out of Menoth's will. Man sprang up from Menoth's shadow. Man lived in chaos, worshipping the Wurm for a long time before Menoth took notice of them and taught them to build walls and cities and to follow the True Law (Menoth's will). In short, he taught humans to be civilized.

Still, his primary purpose was to fight the Wurm. When Morrow and Thamar died, they pled with Menoth for humanities sake. He allowed Morrow and Thamar to become gods of humanity so that he could focus on his battle against the Wurm.

All of the religions agree on this turnover, although Menites often claim that the creator was fooled.

[Kypt]

odinsgrandson: I like that theory a lot and would like to read more on it. Where did you get this information?

[squidstudios]

This history is great! Special thanks to PPS_Mod:Josh and odinsgrandson. Not so much helping me arrive at a color scheme, but we're getting closer. There will almost certainly be a fair bit of stained glass, albeit different in presentation than the one above.

This sparks a fresh question: What are the origins of the Menofix? What is it, and where does it fall into Menoth's story?

[PPS_Mod:Josh]

No idea, to be honest. Per the IKCG, the priests of Menoth are unique in that they do not depend upon symbols or sanctified fonts to help focus their god's power, instead simply holding firm to the vows and promises of the Canon of the True Law. Other than that there's no real reference to the Menofix, even in passing.

You'd have to talk to Doug about it, I think.

[zengoth]

For not being dependant on symbols, that thing is EVERYWHERE...!