Shaking Effects and Frenzying

[Konradexius]

Since you shake effects after leaching, can you choose to order things so that threshold checks happen before shaking? If so, could you choose to shake effects first and then make threshold checks? (If you had some reason to do so)

Or is there a set order in which these two are done?

[Runesong]

Seems like this is a big initial question of the field test. It could be a huge advantage to Hordes players if you could choose the order. So far it looks like both rules just say, "After leeching," but one thing that is clear is that once you make your threshold check, the actually frenzy happens immediately after that.

"A frenzied warbeast immediately activates and tries to attack another model."

The doc also states specifically that a frenzied warbeast activates during the Control Phase. Both statements are on pp. 41

That implies that there could possibly be more Control Phase after the threshold check and/or frenzy, during which the shake-off could take place, which would be a pretty good advantage for the affected beast.

Has anyone else found specific language that could clarify further?

[Lunatic Calm]

Checking, this certainly has a large impact on the effectiveness of shaking in hordes.

[draxius]

Just from reading the rules as written, 'Shake Effects' occurs "During your Control Phase after leaching". Threshold checks occur "During your Control Phase, after your warlocks have leached fury from their warbeasts and spent fury to upkeep their spells".

Page 14 of the Field Test lays out the Control Phase as:
1. Leach
2. Upkeep
3. Threshold checks
4. Resolve all other effects

Strict interpretation of the Control Phase timeline would make it occur in step 4. Strict interpretation of the 'Shake Effects' text implies that it occurs right after leaching.

Most likely, the intended timeline is like this:
1. Leach
2. Shake Effects
3. Upkeep Spells
4. Threshold Check - one at a time, followed immediately by Frenzy on a failed checl
5. Anything else that occurs during Control Phase

The comparable situation in Warmachine looks like this:
1. Replenish Focus
2. Allocate Focus
3. Shake Effects
4. Upkeep Spells
5. Anything else that occurs during Control Phase

Unfortunately, in this specific situation, that interpretation would be a pretty severe disadvantage to Hordes players if this is the intent, so it's very possible the designers went with an open-ended approach here. Hopefully there's an answer on this soon - curious to see how it plays out.

Edit: apparently the language filter on the new forums are not forgiving at all... I'll have to submit something on that.

[Poet]

I'm feeling pretty confident that shake effects should occur after threshold, otherwise it really is pretty risky.
If you want to shake effects you MUST roll a threshold during the turn you've shaken the effect, somewhat counter productive.

I have my money on "resolve all other effects"

[Mootaz]

Answer is:
Shaking happens before Frenzy checks.

[Poet]

And... I was wrong.

[Conviviacr]

Well that certainly sucks horribly compared to jacks:
7: 2
8: 17
9: 13
10: 5

If they were only knocked down or stationary most beasts will just barely pass on average rolls and fail if they need to do both. This seems to be a much larger hindrance then for warjacks. Just forcing them occupies resource space and prevents they from doing something that requires a fury, not unlike the cost jacks must pay. I usually found Frenzying to be a poor choice most of the time with my beasts before, because you have very little control as to what the beast will do (and the opponent has a turn to engineer the situation such that the frenzy is to his benefit not yours).

[Mael]

The answer to that is simply not to force your warbeasts for the shake off effect.

[Poet]

This is a rules forum, the question has been answered, please discuss here:
http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?t=659