eKaya

[Buddhanutz]

Hello all,

I am getting my first MKII game in tomorrow and I was wondering what everyone thought of eKaya. I have read all the threads and there is only some passing comments. I am going to play the heck out of her so that I can leave some feedback. Why in the heck is she MAT 6? And she lost rapid strike. I am just not seeing how she is a better or equal choice to her prime form. Ugh.

[PUFNSTUF]

to me i'd use her to throw 2 beasts forwards, beatface (ie 2 ferals, 2 argus) then feat and recall them, to throw them forward again. also on this turn, you could fail charge her to get 2 free charges with the ferals.

upkeep shadow pack till this charge turn, and have forced evolution on a beast too.


thats how I would use her at least

[whatyoutalkinboutwillis]

to me i'd use her to throw 2 beasts forwards, beatface (ie 2 ferals, 2 argus) then feat and recall them, to throw them forward again. also on this turn, you could fail charge her to get 2 free charges with the ferals.

upkeep shadow pack till this charge turn, and have forced evolution on a beast too.


thats how I would use her at least


No need to fail her charge, just charge something of yours and interrupt the charge attack with Laris's animus. Granted that will fail the charge, but this way it is much more controlled on your part in terms of placement and positioning.

[dicegod]

Granted that will fail the charge, but this way it is much more controlled on your part in terms of placement and positioning.


That isn't a failed charge.
The charge is complete so long as you end your movement with your target in melee range.

[otakud00d]

I don't like her. She needs a boost in melee. She was supposed to make up for the loss of Crit KD and the Focus replenishing feat with the ability to repeatedly hit and become more powerful/accurate if surrounded.

Now? Just a mat 6 PS 12 attack. That's it. There's something horribly wrong with this- she's absolutely screwed if engaged in melee aside from a crappy token armor boost and riposte. Riposte isn't even that good if she can't boost with it considering what her MAT is. It entirely relies on the enemy missing her.

If they brought back Against the Odds with only an Attack boost and rapid strike, I'll be happy.

[TheVP]

Even just giving her back swing wouldn't be horrible. Apparently, Mk II eKaya has forgotten how to hit people with the back end of her weapon.

[CyberKnight]

Haven't tried to play or list build for EKaya yet, but from reading over the card it looks like they intentionally removed anything that made her a good melee assassin. They apparently want her to use her beasts to get the kill and gave her a couple of token abilities to try and make her more survivable if she gets caught.

[Bearded Dragon]

Shadow Pack (potentially) being an upkeep helps out a lot with freeing up fury so she can use it for other things (like channeling something through her Barknode).

She's not scary in melee at all now, but the rest of what made her good stuck around.

I do think some of the beasts could use some point adjustments (and she should get 3 warbeast points), but overall, she's not been lamed on.

[Dantes]

As it stand i have no intention of playing her. PKaya is just better pack master and assassin. PKaya has Packhunter and Soothing song which is far better then Dogpile and FE for running a beast army. I can get Dog pile from my Blackclads so having it on my Warlock is not that great of an ability.

Give EKaya back Calm, it would fit with the theme of a normal spell being a staple ability on the Epic caster.

[Ger]

I think it would be interesting to run some combination of Pureblood Warp Wolf, Argus, and Woldwyrds. Larius runs. Argus's lock up anything you don't want moving on your enemies turn or charge after E Kaya feats. E Kaya feats, spirit doors near Laris. Pureblood and Woldwyrds shoot into your enemies army. Possibly into their warlock/warcaster to get som damage.

Suddenly a large portion of your battlegroup is on the enemies flank. They can't manuever their heavy hitters at you and you have a real nasty threat range on their warcaster/warlock.

Throw in some Druids of Orboros to Force Bolt things toward them (and away from E Kaya and her newly manuevered battlegroup). They can even combo with the stealth by throwing out Counter Magic.

Mix with some solid threats in your infantry that can support themselves. And you suddenly pincer the enemy between your army.

Considering how common it is for the Warcster/Warlock to be a bit behind their army. And how much Phantom Hunter further encourages this....

Also consider that now that your behind the enemies army out of their front arcs. They can't charge you...

Rapid redeployment is a pretty nasty thin to have access to I think.

She's also fairly hard to assassinate with Stealth, no channeling near her (Druids), Def 18, Arm 16 vs melee with Larius nearby.

[Bearded Dragon]

I can get Dog pile from my Blackclads so having it on my Warlock is not that great of an ability.


Dog Pile is still an upkeep spell and the Woldwyrd still lets you annihilate something with upkeeps on it. That's what I mainly did in Mark 1, use Dog Pile like a hot potatoe upkeep to make the Wyrd angry.

[Kineath]

I agree in that I think she needs a boost in melee. She doesn't have to be anywhere near the crazy spear thrusting psycho she used to be though. Just give her a mat or 2 and another P and I think she'd be ok maybe.

Right now I think she's missing something, specially since pKaya has that soothing spell. Also pKaya is just a lot better at handeling more then 3 beasts.

Kineath

[Bakemono]

The problem with E-Kaya is she is a serious letdown from the current P-Kaya (and the broken packhunters). While Epic versions aren't necessarily "better" than their other incarnation, they are supposed to be at least as good (if different). That isn't the case here. The only thing E-Kaya has which is nice is the offensive upkeep "Dogpile" but that doesn't cut the mustard. The new version of Spirit Door that Kaya has is now flexible enough (and since it isn't a Feat it can be used throughout the game) to yo-yo when it is important. E-Kaya gets the one big Yo-Yo once. I'll take a reliable, powerful Warlock over a one-trick pony any day.

[Brandubh]

If they brought back Against the Odds with only an Attack boost and rapid strike, I'll be happy.

I disagree. Against the Odds with Rapid Strike was broken. All she had to do was wait for a unit to consolidate around a target then counter-attack. She could take an entire unit off the board if positioned properly.

The Mk II eKaya, IMO, is all about mobility. Give her a Blackclad, Lanyssa, a Warpwolf or Gnarlhorn maybe a Pureblood, run her beast-heavy. Then use your 6+2+2+2+2+3" charge to assassinate things. Forced evolution, her feat, etc can make beasts amazing. Keep in mind that she may lack melee output but with Laris she's DEF 18 and ARM16 in close combat. That's very decent.

[otakud00d]

Considering what Bakemono said, Def 18 arm 16 with the possibility of being riposte'd doesn't make up for an anemic MAT score (For a Warlock) and a P+S 12 magic stick.

Old Kaya was capable of running a powerful pack as well as being capable of dealing out punishment by herself in the form of her feat + Crit KD. eKaya is currently incapable of coming close to that. She can run her beasts just as well as her old version, except in a different way. However, she's a complete pushover if she tries to attack anything in melee.

Hell, give her Powerful Attack and I'll be happy.

[Mavwick]

My first Hordes Mk-II game was eKaya.
Her +2DEF and STR spell is still incredible. It was all the difference a POW13 Shadowhorn needed to hulk out to POW17 and topple a Guardian in one round. This Shadowhorn was holding down a flank with his high DEF upkeep and Laris was there to channel the Gorax's animus on him.
It came down to trying to kill a 'caster stacked with focus and a Warpwolf with Kaya, the Gorax and his own buffs all needed to punch through and kill Reznik.

Kaya got bogged down with troops. Laris kept her from being touched, but she couldn't do much in return. (I forgot about riposte, but I'm not hitting DEF15 with MAT6) I'd like to see some kind of melee punch return to her, but she supports her army well with some great beast synergy and a real arc node. There's a lot to work with, there. I wouldn't just look at her feat and call her a "one trick pony."

Strangely enough, her epic is more suited to smaller games than her original. This was a problem in Mk-I, but it's no big deal in Mk-II.

[tonychaotic]

I don't think enough attention was brought to the fact that you can have a feral warpwolf charge 17". that is amazing. oh, and it ignores LOS and terrain.

+2 from hunter's mark (I assume they don't stack)
+2 from a gnarlhorn animus
+2 from dogpile
+2 warping
+the normal stuff.

that is insane for a beast to do, especially with 3 attacks, 7 mat, and no fury on it used. only two of those buffs require hitting, and you can have up to three chances with the hunter's mark, and you can boost the dogpile through laris. sounds quite do-able.

oh, and with kaya popping her feat, she doesn't have to worry about control area, or having it get mobbed the following turn.

[csonti]

Keep in mind that she may lack melee output but with Laris she's DEF 18 and ARM16 in close combat. That's very decent.
Until you throw or slam something on her. Which is just got easier in MKII. And now you have a DEF5 ARM14 ranged target.

[Spike0011]

I like eKaya. My current winning 35 pt. list is:

eKaya
^Laris
^Woldwyrd
^Feral Warpwolf
^Gnarlhorn Satyr

druids
^UA

2x blackclads
and 2 pts. for whatever you want (normally shifting stones)

This list is all about the warpwolf. Throw Forced Evolution on the warpwolf and laugh as a 16/18 stealth beast charges 15" and wrecks a heavy. (Dog Pile, Arcane killer, hunter's mark, Gnarlhorn animus, warp SPD if needed) Then just feat it back, ready for next turn.

[MeroTZ]

Ran eKaya at 35 points, with a few beasts (Feral WW, Gnarlhorn, Woldwyrd, Laris), had some horrible experiences.

While a warpwolf missile served me well my first game with eKaya (Bounding/Dogpile), I found eKaya to be severely lacking in the firepower department and general melee department.

Riposte was useless; MAT 6 is a joke. ARM 16 in melee is ok, but much like the DEF 18 with Laris nearby, didn't matter a bit when I had my gnarlhorn tossed on my head (Unyielding only applies if you are engaging someone...). Full tank of fury and I couldn't hit the enemy caster with enough damage to get through one fury and a single point of life (Morgoul). Also, funny thing about that match up was that riposte could have realistically gotten me killed...

Without Kaya herself, I felt that I didn't have anything that could kill a dodgy caster - the Feral Warpwolf is ok, but he fills up fast when you have to boost all his attacks, or he has positioning issues (a long range charge has to have quite the corridor to get to a protected target...). As well, there are counters to him, like killing him (or if you're morghoul, just fill him with fury on ripostes). As well, it feels like she really needs something like Pack Hunters if shes supposed to be a beast support caster; she currently provides no real inherent bonus to her beasts, other than near trivial efficiency on running/charging, and a slight bit of utility with dogpile.

I feel like she really needs some sort of melee boost back herself, whether its a MAT boost, Flank (Laris), or one of her old tricks back, but she needs something to let her mix it up competently in melee to feel like Kaya IMHO.

As well, with the warbeast boosts regular Kaya picked up, it really feels like eKaya almost got ignored; soothing song or Pack Hunters would really go a long way to giving eKaya a mastery in at least one area; Kaya was already an assassin, but with those spells, runs her beasts with scary efficiency.

All in all, after another couple games with eKaya, I came to much the same conclusion; she currently feels lacking, and certainly doesn't feel like Kaya. She needs either a clear role and the tools to fill it, or some of her punch back so she can at least run similar to what she used to.

[Masero]

E kaya was one of my favourite mk 1 casters. It was great that Circle had an effective melee assassin.

With mk 2 she has lost all of her combat ability.

Giving her flank with her battlegroup would make her useful in combat again.

Even better it fits in Kaya really well, she should be fighting along side her beasts, with mat 6 p+s 12 she has no business been in combat.

I'd happily trade riposte and unyielding for this.

[DeeCius DeadCloud]

Giving her flank with her battlegroup would make her useful in combat again.


That does sound like a fitting ability for her, the thing is with her mobility and that of Laris it could be argued to be quite OP.

The Retribtuions Dawnlord warcaster has flank with his battlegroup and outside the situational Eliminator spell is a pretty slow and clunky warcaster who hits hard.

Kaya with the same thing and all her placement abilities and speed would be able to jump a warcaster from a good distance by herself and average 22-23 on damage rolls with flank, 26 if arcane killer comes into effect. Taking into account potential 17" Feral Warpwolf leaps this would make assassinations far too easy.

Although it fits, I just can't see her getting it. I think from now on she's just stuck in beast support and we'll have to accept that.

[Dantes]

Kaya needs a better offensive spell to channel through Laris. Dog Pile is nice to combo with the Wyrd but if the Wyrd dies or can't get LOS then it is kinda meh. Muzzle is complete jank. I'd take Spirit fang over Muzzle, same range, one less pow and better debuff and 'GASP!' it works agains Warmachine.

Also I think giving "Critical Dog Pile" to her weapon would be a nice touch as well. Giving her an 'come help me' button when she gets in trouble as her battle group comes in to save her.

[Kineath]

That does sound like a fitting ability for her, the thing is with her mobility and that of Laris it could be argued to be quite OP.

The Retribtuions Dawnlord warcaster has flank with his battlegroup and outside the situational Eliminator spell is a pretty slow and clunky warcaster who hits hard.

Kaya with the same thing and all her placement abilities and speed would be able to jump a warcaster from a good distance by herself and average 22-23 on damage rolls with flank, 26 if arcane killer comes into effect. Taking into account potential 17" Feral Warpwolf leaps this would make assassinations far too easy.

Although it fits, I just can't see her getting it. I think from now on she's just stuck in beast support and we'll have to accept that.

Well, I guess "Gang" with warbeasts would work as well.
I don't agree that Flank would be OP though, as the Dawnlord is MAT 8 PS 14 without flank, which is a big deal better the eKaya, also he has mobility spells which affect himself and his warjacks, making him an effective spd 7 melee badass
so I think 5 mat 8 ps 12 weaponmaster attacks after spirit shift wouldn't be that bad.

Kineath

[Blaque]

I'm going to also second this. It fits he rtheme, encourages her to be up-front and restores her melee capabilty in a pelasant way.

I would also personally argue that something besides Muzzle is probably wouldn't hurt, but not sure what. WIthout the special effect, its apretty vanilla POW 12, RNG 10 spell for only 2 Fury, so I dont' really expect too much to replace it with.

Looking over some other things, having something lik Awakened Spirit, Attuned Spiirt or something ot have animi get out there more easily would be kind of neat. Not sure if I would give up Shadow Pack, Dogpile or Forced Evoltuion for it at all though. So right now I'm a bit at a lost of what ot have besides Muzzle if anything.

The barknode may also do well with something. Maybe taking a page from Brun & Lug and having him have flank with Kaya herself, but that and Forced Evolution is a tad overkill I woudl say for our free channeler.

And stuff.

[Dantes]

The barknode may also do well with something. Maybe taking a page from Brun & Lug and having him have flank with Kaya herself, but that and Forced Evolution is a tad overkill I woudl say for our free channeler.

And stuff.
Give Laris Beastmaster, it restores him to some of his old usefulness. I never had to use it but it was there if needed.

[Bearded Dragon]

I played a game with her today and she still seemed like the same as mark 1. Shadow Pack being upkeep was a big deal to help with her fury usage. I still felt she needed units with good anti infantry capabilities in order to take out enemy units.

I ran:

eKaya & Larry
2 Feral Warpwolves
Woldwyrd
Gatorman Posse (full)
Tharn Bloodweavers

I still need to get the hang of when to properly use the bloodweavers (was a nice thing to notice they have magic weapons). The gatormen were excellent to get stuck in and be a tarpit with their ability to heal back up.

While I think that flank would be pretty thematic (she' an Alpha after all), I don't think she's a lower end warlock by any means. I still think she should be 3 beast points, but it's not a gamebreaker by any means.

I do need to give some tries with regular Kaya to see how she fairs in comparison.